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Time Based Renko Bars for ninja 7?


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Time Based Renko Bars for ninja 7?

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  #1 (permalink)
 ianrk 
birmingham, staffordshire, uk
 
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Hi
I'm new to the site so hopefully posting this question in right place. I'm interested to know if anyone has coded or could code time based renko bars for ninja7? I recently noticed these on www.fxsol.com website, in particular the accucharts platform. Essentially you can set both the tick size as well as a time interval,for example a 1 minute 3tick chart; which cuts out even more noise out that normal renko bars. Thanks

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  #3 (permalink)
 billr 
San Antonio, Texas USA
 
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If anyone is still interested in creating time-based renko charts, I had Final Financial Algorithms create one for me. He did it quickly and it worked just like I wanted it to. You can find their contact info at ninja's site under 3rd Party Partners.

Good luck.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Lornz 
Oslo, Norway
 
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I don't get it?

Renkos move only when price exceeds a certain range, thus "eliminating" time as a function. If you additionally print new bars every x instance of time, you end up with more bars. Thus you are adding noise, not eliminating it..

Am I missing something here?

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 RJay 
Hartford, CT. USA
 
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Lornz View Post
I don't get it?

Renkos move only when price exceeds a certain range, thus "eliminating" time as a function. If you additionally print new bars every x instance of time, you end up with more bars. Thus you are adding noise, not eliminating it..

Am I missing something here?

I think I know what he is talking about.

Back in 6.5, Renko Charts only updated at bar close.

I saw a version at a vender site that allowed additional updates at specific time interval during the life of the bar.

Don't know if this is that vender. The NinjaTrader platform has evolved past that level of functionality.

Or he could be refering to an indicator overlay that looks like Renko bars.

???

RJay

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  #6 (permalink)
 ianrk 
birmingham, staffordshire, uk
 
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billr View Post
If anyone is still interested in creating time-based renko charts, I had Final Financial Algorithms create one for me. He did it quickly and it worked just like I wanted it to. You can find their contact info at ninja's site under 3rd Party Partners.

Good luck.

Thank you for that, I'll get quote from them

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 trendisyourfriend 
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billr View Post
If anyone is still interested in creating time-based renko charts, I had Final Financial Algorithms create one for me. He did it quickly and it worked just like I wanted it to. You can find their contact info at ninja's site under 3rd Party Partners.

Good luck.

Can you post a screen capture comparing both a regular RENKO and your modified with the time component ?

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 billr 
San Antonio, Texas USA
 
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lornz,
You are right. A timed renko is counter-intuitive and quite dangerous to use. But when I first started trading, I had subscribed to eSignal and was using their renko that happened to have a time filter. (so does Stockcharts.com) Basically, it artificially smoothed the chart by taking the net move over a certain time interval (say 5 min. for example) then printed the net move only at end of each interval. I was inexperienced and thought it produced very impressive charts that at first glance looked perfect for automation. After working with the charts for a while, I realized what was going on. The charts are still basically renko charts that are still set to a specific brick size, but are only printed in timed intervals. So whatever time interval you set, that is the lag.

Just about the time I decided to use these frankensteins, I switched to Ninja and had one custom programmed. About a week later it finally occured to me what a crazy course I had set out on.

I posted this as I was helping someone search on futures.io (formerly BMT) about different renko downloads (betterrenko etc.) and saw this post, so I thought I would mention it. The person I was searching for is aware of the problem but apparently wants to smooth the renko in this way and trade using a much longer time frame. This would be less dangerous than what I was considering, but I am currently trying to steer him away from this approach.

Getting back to your question: Yes I realize renkos major feature is showing the incremental move without time noise (that is why I use them). The time feature lured me in because it APPEARS to reduce noise. What it really does is create a chart by retroactively printing the net move with renko bars for the given interval and provide the user with the king of all lagging indicators disquised as a chart. In hindsight, I can't believe it took me weeks to notice what I was setting myself up for. Oh well

Hope that explains it.

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  #9 (permalink)
 billr 
San Antonio, Texas USA
 
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ianrk,

I wanted to stress that the timed renko, while it was appealing to me at first glance, is a very dangerous idea. I didn't know what I was doing at the time. In my opinion it's a novelty chart that should not be used in live trading or backtesting. When using historic data, they look great. But they are showing you an impossible view that could only be done with a time machine. For example, if you are looking at a live timed-renko set to 5 minutes and 10 tick brick size, the chart will only update once every 5 minutes. So if during that five minutes you get a 50 tick move, you will not know it until the 5 mins is up and then the chart will print a nice, noise-free 5 bars reflecting the net move you just missed! I have to laugh at the insanely great backtesting results I was getting with them from eSignal. But again, it is an illusion.

Don't be discouraged by this, renko charts are at their best when used in their original form showing net price movement. They are a great tool.

I currently use LogikRenko from pureLogik to mitigate some serious technical issues NT has built into their platform regarding Renko charts.

Let me know if you would like to discuss the use of renko any further.

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  #10 (permalink)
 ianrk 
birmingham, staffordshire, uk
 
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billr
Thank you for your comments. I did send reply earlier but not sure you received it. I rarely use forums to be honest. My post about renko's was sometime ago and I decided not to pursue them. I currently use better renko to daytrade forex together with traditional technical analysis and a currency strength meter but no indicators. I'm always open minded about new ideas and would be interested to know how you find the logitek renko bars and whether they give you an advantage in any way. Do you use any of the other supporting indicators from logitek?

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  #11 (permalink)
 billr 
San Antonio, Texas USA
 
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ianrk,
You are very welcome. I do use the logikRenko vs. NT's renko, expecially if I am backtesting. It provides two advantages, the wicks prevent the strategy analyzer from deleting the price moves in between forming a new brick, and the matching of the close/open so the strategy will record an entry at the correct point at reversal bar conditions. There are some other more esoteric advantages of the logikrenko that I wont go into here. From what little I know about the specifics of Better Renko, Better may solve the two main problems I described above...not sure.

Regarding any advantage, they fact that they work correctly as opposed to NT's renko is certainly the elimination of a disadvantage. Any advantage would be the inherent use of Renko price movement. The break of a time chart is arbitrary, the same can be said for tick charts but to a lesser degree. As far as my trading goes, I do look at range charts occasionally, but my longer term trading is all Renko. My day trading/scalping is mostly tick charts and 5/15min. charts. I try to keep the number of charts I am using to trade to a minimum as well.

I have had Anthony over at purelogik (vs. logitek?) do some custom programming for me, but have only used his logikRenko as far as his off-the-self products. I have thought about looking into a couple of his others but havent' done so yet. I have found him to be a good resource for custom programming.

I trade based on price and have tried to keep my charts very clean, so like you I use almost no indicators. One thing I find very helpful with renko is how the pure price movement provides pretty clear indicators if you are using them. For instance, I would use moving averages much more with a renko than I would with a tick or time chart. They tend to assist me in seeing what is already on the chart, but helpful. If I were to generalize how I use renko, I would say that they tend to perform well when trading medium to longer term price swings. Since there is a marginal trade-off in accuracy by reducing noise levels, anything less than a 10 tick (or pip) accuracy in entries is a potential problem with renko. If your trading is not reliant on spot-on entries, trade and risk management is not as problematic as entry signals, and can perform with little disadvantage to other charts. So other than scalping, I would suggest renko is a good tool to keep at hand.

I would be happy to expand or comment on any specifics you might have in mind.

Hope I answered your question.

Bill

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  #12 (permalink)
 ianrk 
birmingham, staffordshire, uk
 
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Bill
Thanks again. I agree with you about bar size, if its too small its easy to get chopped around and you can miss the big picture. I tend to trade a bit discretionary so not really been into backtesting on ninja, especially when I've not learnt the language. I use 15 pip better renko for basic S/R levels and 5 pip for entries. On 5pip better renko you get anything from a 10 to 15 pip reversal bar for some reason. From what I can see I think better renko bars solve some of the basic renko issues but do not appear to be as technically adept as logik renko bars. I was wondering if the adaptive brick size was helpful, and what the different brick colours meant.I also agree MA's most likely perform better with priced based bars, although I don't use them when I'm scapling.
Whilst I like ninja trader it is problematic finding a good ecn broker with low forex spreads, this is area where MT4 has an advantage, but no proper range or renko on MT4 as far as I can see. Perhaps e-mini futures are a good option.
Ian

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 BankRobberNT 
NYC
 
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This might help:

Currency Strength Meter and Multi Time Frame Candles-Forex-NinjaTrader-Indicator - YouTube

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