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KillerJukeBox referenced this platform in Chat, and I thought it deserved it's own thread.
It apparently has a connection to NinjaTrader as well:
Mike
In your post you put a direct link to software that enables NT8 to bridge to software that can then connect to alternative brokers. Can you explain why you are allowed and you felt it was appropriate to post a link to software that breaches the NT8 terms?
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
The solution found by @KillerJukeBox uses NinjaTrader's ATI to the best of my knowledge, not having used it, but having read the github readme.
@NinjaTrader can you please comment as to whether or not using ATI is acceptable use?
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
Alright, so that other thread will be closed as well unfortunately. That is unfortunate but those are the limitations users agree to, probably without ever having read the EULA.
I was wondering if anybody has created a data connection provider for NT
What i want to do, is to inject real time synthetic data (data that i have calculated outside NT,
as a result of different processes) back into NT, like a normal instrument.
Broker: NT Brokerage, Kinetick, IQFeed, Interactive Brokers
Trading: ES
Posts: 159 since Dec 2014
Thanks Given: 40
Thanks Received: 166
Definitely unfortunate and makes me question whether I want to continue on with the current NT trajectory. Being a dev who wants to tinker and create, I worry the noose may be tightening in the future.
Things have dramatically changed the last couple years for advanced devs (not NT's target audience). You can find so so many repos and open source projects now for data API's and backtesting. Connecting to broker has always been the simplest part.
Start a new thread for a complete Python solution backend, with various methods available for client side charting (Windows). Share Docker images. I'll be happy to promote and try to contribute.
Not to continue to flog this horse, but there was a simple issue raised by the original thread that touched all this off: the desire of a user, @b16aln, to use the NT platform with brokers that NT does not support. (Which, I might add, he had initially been led to believe by NT support would be an acceptable thing to do, which was later contradicted by a reply, in that thread, from @NinjaTrader Ray, the founder of the company, when he was asked if it was an acceptable use.)
The issue is that having users connect to whichever brokers they want conflicts with NT's business decision not to have the platform used to connect to brokers that NT does not have a business relationship with. The suggested project involved getting around this decision by technical means, using the FIX protocol to connect to other brokers anyway. But the inability to use NT with other brokers was not a technical limitation. It was not something that NT had simply failed to do out of lack of competence or from failing to write their platform correctly. It was not an error or inadvertent limitation that needed to be corrected or improved upon by tinkering users. It was how they wanted to conduct their business.
The movement of NT away from being a general platform that let traders utilize it with many brokers was largely motivated by their decision several years ago to go into the brokerage business themselves, although they had always had limitations on the brokers they dealt with. I assume there were and are financial considerations involved with the other brokers, but whatever reasons they have are business reasons, not technical ones. Once they had their own brokerage, the use of the platform with their brokerage became part of the brand, part of how they were operating in the market as a broker as well as a platform provider.
Essentially, users creating a means to use their software to deal with other brokers would be taking the ability to make these decisions out of their hands. It also would be literally taking money out of their hands as well, since the users clearly would not use it to connect to NT Brokerage or the others they permit any more -- that was the entire point of the idea.
Many traders, myself among them, were not happy when NT pulled its platform back to its own brokerage and a few others. But it is not my software. I did what some others have done, which is move to another platform. Others have, of course, decided to go with the NT brokerage, or to go (or stay) with one of the other supported brokers. But there are no other options available that do not violate NT's rights to its intellectual property. Modifying the capabilities of the software to go around NT's business decisions is not a purely technical effort. It is actually appropriation of the software. It is an add-on, but it is an add-on intended to get around the licensed use of the software. @NinjaTrader -- Ray, the founder of NT -- has said in this thread that the restriction to not develop an interface to brokers was in the license agreement "for as long as I can remember.," and he wrote it.
I doubt that any of this will change any minds, but these are the issues as I see them, and is why the original thread was closed.
I can understand why @b16aln is unhappy with the decision to close his original thread, and I would have been annoyed too if it had been mine, purely as a personal reaction. But it was not personal and should not be taken personally. Once @NinjaTrader replied to the inquiry that was made whether it was an allowable use under the license, the effort to develop a FIX interface, or any other add-on with the same purpose, was not something that could be supported on futures.io under its terms. The general question of whether NT should have the limitations it has imposed on developers is entirely appropriate, and it is also appropriate to disagree with their decisions, or have any other discussion about them. The present thread would be a good place for it. But a thread that is not simply discussing in the abstract whether it can or should be done, but is about doing it, is another matter:
The purpose of this rather long post is simply to lay out the issues as I see them. Disagreement and/or further discussion of them is perfectly appropriate, as discussion and debate always are. However, NT is not "making up rules as they go along," and neither is futures.io.
I regret that @b16aln was offended by having his thread closed, and I agree that he initially received a go-ahead from NT support, which was a mistake according to @NinjaTrader. It would have been much better if his original query to NT had been responded to differently, and it is clear in the original thread that he felt he had been given the OK to pursue the project. But we have to call them as we see them, and once @NinjaTrader responded as he did in that thread, we had no other choice.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Bob, if ninjatrader arent; making up the rules as they go along, why have @NinjaTrader allowed and taken part in multiple other threads on developing individual user connection? The last thread that I referenced was clearly far worse than developing a FIX add on, I was discussing how to actually manipulate the current NT connections to manipulate orders....worst of all @NinjaTrader were involved in the thread and saw no need to close it down, issue warnings or even politely flag that this was against the TOS.
They can point to a 5 year old term in the terms of service all they like but there has been a clear an unabiguaous precident and custom and practice set by @NinjaTrader in allowing these discussions and developments to take place. Do they pick and choose who has to follow certain rules and who doesn;t? Seems very discrimiatory policy to me if that is the case. If they are now enforcing these rules then that is clear change of policy and they should put a statement making this clear that the past custom and practice has ended and they will now be enforcing this.
There have been specific external links posted on the NT discussion forum threads to external code to create a FIX bridge, NT themselves have taken part these threads but none of these were closed down or accusations of breaching rules made. It was quite openly dicussed and commented on by @NinjaTrader.
It would be good to have a response from @NinjaTrader on this...as far as I can see they have not told anyone to stop discussing/developing anything yet, they have only confirmed that it does breach their 5 year old terms that they have not enforced for years. So @NinjaTrader, what is your decision on whether users here can develop a FIX add on?
Policy vs enforcement are two different things. Had I not been asked in this forum what our policy is I likely would not have seen it nor answered. Technical questions related to the development of a brokerage interface are infrequent at best thus it’s not a training topic for our 50+ support team. I have used this thread as an opportunity to educate this team on this policy.
Our policy is clear, it's prohibited to develop a brokerage interface. How and if we choose to enforce those that are in violation is at our discretion. No different than a patent holder choosing how, who and when to sue for patent infringement.
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
