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Trading Learning Understanding
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Trading Learning Understanding

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Europe
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, CQG Trader
Broker/Data: Mirus
Favorite Futures: currency futures, forex
 
Posts: 72 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 36 given, 20 received

Trading Learning Understanding

Hello,

I find a lot of threads referring to indicators, charts and software. But I didnīt got informations where to learn trading. I think that the “best” indicators and software can not help you to avoid losses or to guarantee winners. Someone can have the best car, best tennis-racket and will lose. The more important thing is to understand – in my opinion.

I have watched so many videos about trading you canīt imagine – I even canīt. You have to know – I am the “Ironing Man”. LOL. As we didnīt have anyone to help with work and my wife and me are very busy, I had to do the ironing for our 5-head-family and our company by myself! I was ironing 2 nights during the week and every weekend. During this I watched all videos from Mirus, PFG, Infinityfutures, TraderKingdom and hours and hours on youtube and many videos of the rooms I have attended for trials – and there were a lot of rooms I have been. If I would have done my study of economics with same intensity, I would have finished 2 years earlier, LOL.

There are a lot of rooms and everyone claims to be better than the others. Many of them have “great” indicators. Maybe they are – but you will never know. How could you know without understanding. My father once said “Spanish is more easy than English”. How could he say this – he can not evaluate as he speaks somehow english and a little spanish from holidays. I can say that english is more easy than spanish as spanish is my first foreign language and the grammatics is more difficult. What I want to say is, that – as everywhere in life – people claim to “know” about things and give advices to others. “The most easy thing is to give advices to others” the old greeks said.

The purpose of this thread isnīt to blame someone but to discuss about rooms that can be recommended – to learn and UNDERSTAND trading. When you are in a room with red, purple,green.... dots, triangles and diamonds that indicate where to go long and short and you donīt understand why this is plotted then this is not understanding trading. If the room is closed or you can not use the software for whatever reason – you are lost! The language you thought you can speak is taken away from your tongue and you canīt do anything.

The goal for every trader should be to learn and to understand. I have been in rooms with both, rooms with “great” or “easy” or “cool” indicators or signals – that in truth are black boxes – and in rooms where I have learnt. Some more, some less, some better some not so good. However, after 2 years of doing sim and live Iīm profitable almost every week. Iīm happy about this. Of course there are traders with more profit – but maybe also with more risk and higher drawdowns.

Because of my understanding of trading now I can trade with very small risk and very tight stops to reach my targets. I use different views for my trading, what I have learnt in different rooms. But at this opportunity here and now I want to thank Jam the Trader from Signal Trading - Live Daytrading Futures Forex Room for having taught me so that I am so happy and satisfied today I couldnīt imagine 2 years ago. Jam has taught me to understand price-action, how to use fibonacci, S/R and many more. If I can give a serious and honest hint, a recommendation where one can learn trading with understanding trading then go to www.signaltrading.net and do a trial. Iīm already lifetime-member there and I donīt know where I would stand without this room. I started there with a trial and then after few weeks I decided to be lifetime-member. And now, after 10 months Iīm profitable almost every week. (As I have been in about 20 rooms for trials I think I can do this recommendation seriously, moreover Iīm lifetime-member in 3 rooms so I can evaluate what we are doing there).

As I think itīs important not to stop learning I would be happy to receive any answers and recommendations where to improve my thinking about trading.

Happy Trading
Tony

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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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which belt are you?

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  #4 (permalink)
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cory View Post
which belt are you?


I read a bit of sarcasm cory in your question but anyway it made me laugh. I think signaltrading is a good place to start if you know nothing about trading. I have visited their room once (1 hour only) did not stay longer as i just wanted to make my own personal opinion. They use many things to help new traders build their confidence, the belts are just part of this. It's a reward that brings positive feedbacks. Nothing wrong with that and i think their system/strategy gives the trader a certain edge so everything is there. I would start with that base and try to add to it instead of trying to search for another room. Trading demands lots of observation, you should try to learn how to observe in order to draw your own conclusions. To improve your 'thinking' about trading try to focus your attention on a few things that work for you. Try to have a theme each week you'd like to explore and focus on that aspect only. For example, you might want to learn how to filter breakout setups that fail. How would you proceed, where or when such breakouts are more likely to occur ? Next, look at historical datas and try to find common characteristics when a breakout works and when it fails etc. This is just one example but do this systematically every week and you'll progress and in the process learn to become your own mentor.

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  #5 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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  #6 (permalink)
 R.I.P. 1960-2010 
 
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trendisyourfriend View Post
To improve your 'thinking' about trading try to focus your attention on a few things that work for you. Try to have a theme each week you'd like to explore and focus on that aspect only. For example, you might want to learn how to filter breakout setups that fail. How would you proceed, where or when such breakouts are more likely to occur ? Next, look at historical datas and try to find common characteristics when a breakout works and when it fails etc. This is just one example but do this systematically every week and you'll progress and in the process learn to become your own mentor.

If what you seem to be saying is that you must Own your system, then I fully agree.

Having a systematic approach is key. Whatever you believe you have learned from any source needs to be put to a P/L test as a condition of owning the setup.

Recently worked with a few Trading Buddies to develop a sheet system for each setup. The idea is to keep stats so that it is now based on actual trades rather than feeling that a certain setup is working. If a setup is not preforming it will show up in the P/L & bad ones will be eliminated. If one is working remarkably well then it will be kept and more will be done to remove the unprofitable scenarios.

Believe that a somewhat profitable setup should be executed 20 times before a real decision can be made as to tweaking the exit - because the exit is where the $$$ are made and lost - 20 times gives statistical creedence to the Setup.

Losing Setups will make one give up quickly and move on.

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
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Big Mike View Post
All, there is already a thread on signaltrading.net, please use that thread to discuss that vendors services.

Mike

I think the author of this thread wanted to discuss trading, learning and understanding. He used signaltrading as a starting point to discuss about these aspects. That's what i read in his message. Maybe i should stop reading between lines .

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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
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Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,697 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,041 given, 4,496 received


ZTR View Post
If what you seem to be saying is that you must Own your system, then I fully agree.

Having a systematic approach is key. Whatever you believe you have learned from any source needs to be put to a P/L test as a condition of owning the setup.

Recently worked with a few Trading Buddies to develop a sheet system for each setup. The idea is to keep stats so that it is now based on actual trades rather than feeling that a certain setup is working. If a setup is not preforming it will show up in the P/L & bad ones will be eliminated. If one is working remarkably well then it will be kept and more will be done to remove the unprofitable scenarios.

Believe that a somewhat profitable setup should be executed 20 times before a real decision can be made as to tweaking the exit - because the exit is where the $$$ are made and lost - 20 times gives statistical creedence to the Setup.

Losing Setups will make one give up quickly and move on.

The exit point is something i consider dynamic. I use Market Profile along my regular charts (time and tick based) in order to know the obstacles in front of me. Once indentified it's mostly a matter of deciding if the risk is worth it whether you stay or exit before the next obstacle. I consider the entry point more static as it occurs systematically at similar spots on the chart.

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  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Europe
 
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Posts: 72 since Apr 2010
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Trading Learning Understanding

Cory

thanks for your reply. So you know about the rankings there?

Iīm purple for the moment. I have no time to do the stats so correct as I should do for brown belt. I have a lot of work beside (today I had 2 trades during telephone call with our accountance office of the company) I have +$270,- now at this slow Monday.

The belts are a nice system for the students. However, I donīt wear a ring on my finger to know that Iīm married, LOL. Some day I will find my time to do the stats correctly.

Cory, at this opportunity I want to thank you personally as you have sent me the PV_PRVol_v03 indicator for NT7. Thanks again!

Have a great day
Tony


cory View Post
which belt are you?


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  #10 (permalink)
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Toronto, Ontario
 
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Trading learning understanding... I took it as a veiled attempt to promote some vendor. But then, I am forever a cynic.


trendisyourfriend View Post
I think the author of this thread wanted to discuss trading, learning and understanding. He used signaltrading as a starting point to discuss about these aspects. That's what i read in his message. Maybe i should stop reading between lines .


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