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Is It Time to Move to NT 7?
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Is It Time to Move to NT 7?

  #31 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
Why isn't Multicharts not giving problems on XP or Win7 ? I run Multicharts on both without crashes, I run NT on both with crashes.


A software like TradeStation was developped 15 years ago, when CPU power and RAM available were nothing compared to today. I believe that the architecture of MulitCharts is similar to TradeStation, so it is much less resource hungry than NinjaTrader.

If you just start the application and open one 5 minute chart with a lookback of 300 days, NinjaTrader's 7 requirements in RAM are double the size compared to MultiCharts, see screenshot below.

I also believe that MultiCharts is much more stable than NinjaTrader. But for me NT7 is already a huge improvment over NT 6.5

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Last edited by Fat Tails; September 26th, 2010 at 12:45 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
Why isn't Multicharts not giving problems on XP or Win7 ? I run Multicharts on both without crashes, I run NT on both with crashes.

This question rised me too, maybe cos MC is better programmed.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
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  #33 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
A software like TradeStation was developped 15 years ago, when CPU power and RAM available were nothing compared to today. I believe that the architecture of MulitCharts is similar to TradeStation, so it is much less resource hungry tha NinjaTrader.

If you just start the application and open one 5 minute chart with a lookback of 300 days, NinjaTrader's 7 requirements in RAM are double the size compared to MultiCharts, see screenshot below.

I also believe that MultiCharts is much more stable than NinjaTrader. But for me NT7 is already a huge improvment over NT 6.5

That is the problem with bad software programmers. They take everything for granted. Good code writers think about more things than just 'it's working for me'. I started programming in ASM the 8086 cpu in the very old days. What I have learned in those days is what is missing with many young current .net programmers. Most of them don't get the big picture anymore.

About your argument of the memory and slow cpu's : 15 years ago people didn't program multithreaded, you had multi CPU servers but not really a lot of software was written to handle the multi cpu's. MC is a master on the multi core cpu. That is because they are on top of their game. NT programmers are implementing it but apparently not good enough.

I guess that's the difference between a regular programmer and one that is able to produce stunning results. I believe the Russian MC programmers are smarter than the Ninjatrader programmers. The results are there. Unfortunatly.

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  #34 (permalink)
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I would advise every software developper to buy an old book about how to code in Assembler. They will all benefit from it to know exactly how the cpu works and how low level instructions are handled by the cpu and the code looks. Heck, in today's software development I would write special assembly code to handle the most intense cpu tasks.

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  #35 (permalink)
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For me, I am still not happy with Ninja Trader or Multichart.
Both lacks in something or other.

Ninja have been always ahead of Multicharts (or any other platform I know) as far as functionality goes e.g Chart Trader, DOM. But Ninja always lacked in performance and stability. but NT 7 is big improvement on NT 6.

Multicharts, great performance. but where is manual order entry??
This is 2010 and I can imagine platform which doesn't (or can't...I don't know what to say ) provide manual trading.

Don't know when will we get functionalities like Ninja and performance like Multicharts in one platform!

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  #36 (permalink)
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jtrade View Post
Clearly there's a great deal of disagreement as to whether NT7 is reliable, so if 6.5 is working for you, as it is for me, why bother ? One day ( or month, or year) it will be out of beta.

I mean - would you want to use the next Windows version in beta for live trading !?

You sound like me in February when @Zondor had to beat me over the head to start developing code that would take advantage of NT7's new architecture.

So after 6 months of pushing this thing as hard as I can. I make no apology for my praising NT7beta 21.

Short story of why I do this: I started with trade station in 1991. I had a 50MHz computer that my boss called a Ferrari (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA). I was running IBM's beta version of Windows (what was that disaster called?).

So, I wanted to be on the cutting edge and missed a week of trading debugging all the problems. When the next Windows came out I ran down to Comp USA - there was no Internet downloads for big files back in the Stone Age of the Information age.

Trade Station served me until 2003 when they became a Brokerage, so my over $2000 investment (1991 dollars) was wasted, IMHO.

Am I making the same mistake buying licenses now? No, because once this thing works NT would be foolish not to raise the price. I would.

I have no direct knowledge of Ray's intentions. He would not even commit to going Motorcycle Riding once I was healthy. Think he was concerned I would smoke his Brutale with my Buell in the twisties. I have yet to really push a Multi Strata. But once I get healthy enough, I will be working hard to wear out my Boot's toe sliders in the corners on my new bike. This is alpha testing, it can be really fun, because all the major problems are gone and it is about tweaking the GUI. With NT that is Indy's, templates & workspaces.

This is not really off topic IMHO, as I am trying to show that the entire spectrum of my life is about finding the edge of the envelope. Being a leukemia survivor was the ultimate test, as everything is beta and most Doctors in the USA have bought into the idea of Standard of Care. My new doc runs beta testing trails, but I now have to be the perfect patient or they will boot me. Will post this in the Journey Thread.

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  #37 (permalink)
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ToolsForTrader View Post
For me, I am still not happy with Ninja Trader or Multichart.
Both lacks in something or other.

Ninja have been always ahead of Multicharts (or any other platform I know) as far as functionality goes e.g Chart Trader, DOM. But Ninja always lacked in performance and stability. but NT 7 is big improvement on NT 6.

Multicharts, great performance. but where is manual order entry??
This is 2010 and I can imagine platform which doesn't (or can't...I don't know what to say ) provide manual trading.

Don't know when will we get functionalities like Ninja and performance like Multicharts in one platform!

I will only consider MultiCharts, if they have added a chart trader and a DOM. In its current configuration I would have to add a second piece of software to run on the API, and the more pieces of software I am running on my PC simultaneously, the more problems I will encounter.

However, I can see that MultiCharts is more stable and less resource hungry and that Easy Language will save me some time, if I compare it to NinjaScript, so if they add that missing feature, which is manual order entry, they might beat NinjaTrader by offering a similar functionality with a higher level of performance and reliability. Now testing MC as I heard that manual order entry will come soon.


Last edited by Fat Tails; September 26th, 2010 at 01:15 PM.
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  #38 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
I will only consider MultiCharts, if they have added a chart trader and a DOM. In its current configuration I would have to add a second piece of software to run on the API, and the more pieces of software I am running on my PC simultaneously, the more problems I will encounter.

However, I can see that MultiCharts is more stable and less resource hungry and that Easy Language will save me some time, if comparing to NinjaScript, so if they add that missing feature, which is manual order entry, they might beat NinjaTrader by offering a similar functionality with a higher level of performance and reliability. Now testing MC as I heard that manual order entry will come up soon.

Think it comes down to if you are a discressionary trader or not. For actual discressionary trading, find me something better than NT7. I'll test just about anything. Anyone have any fun toys you want to see if I can break?

I added a screen shot of the CPU usage when loading a 54 second, 20,000 bar binary based GOM_Recorder chart.

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Last edited by ZTR; September 26th, 2010 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Spelling+Wording
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  #39 (permalink)
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Hope this isn't off topic - but since I saw fit to trash talk NT some on this thread earlier, I thought I would follow up.

I spent last weekend checking into other platform options - namely Multi Charts and Sierra Charts. MC sounds like a great package, but simple doesn't have the features I have come to expect (thanks to NT) as a discretionary trader. SC came very close, but the implementation wasn't as trim as NT has allowed the same thing to be (I would have to have something like 100 charts up for the same setup on SC). I really liked what I saw on SC - I spoke to customer service and they said to check back in 3 months for the new features.

For those interested, i trade any number of stocks during the day (usually 15 to 25 on the list) off of the 5 minute and 15 minute charts. NT allows me to setup the list on an MA and link to one multi-time series chart. I like to keep a close eye on the Q's and SPY as well.

After the research I decided to have one more go at NT - so I un-installed everything and re-installed and re-created everything in NT from scratch: workspaces, templates, database. I continued to experience the same bugs that I have been experiencing.

Since I had a clean install, I thought I would take the time to mention this to NT. They responded and we managed to actually pinpoint the most important problems (IMO) this week: disappearing chart drawings, sporadic candlestick spacing, and the changing ATM strategy. Whoot! Two of them were actually addressed with the release of .22.

Anyhoo - for what it is worth.

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  #40 (permalink)
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Day Trading Fool View Post
Hope this isn't off topic - but since I saw fit to trash talk NT some on this thread earlier, I thought I would follow up.

I spent last weekend checking into other platform options - namely Multi Charts and Sierra Charts. MC sounds like a great package, but simple doesn't have the features I have come to expect (thanks to NT) as a discretionary trader. SC came very close, but the implementation wasn't as trim as NT has allowed the same thing to be (I would have to have something like 100 charts up for the same setup on SC). I really liked what I saw on SC - I spoke to customer service and they said to check back in 3 months for the new features.

For those interested, i trade any number of stocks during the day (usually 15 to 25 on the list) off of the 5 minute and 15 minute charts. NT allows me to setup the list on an MA and link to one multi-time series chart. I like to keep a close eye on the Q's and SPY as well.

After the research I decided to have one more go at NT - so I un-installed everything and re-installed and re-created everything in NT from scratch: workspaces, templates, database. I continued to experience the same bugs that I have been experiencing.

Since I had a clean install, I thought I would take the time to mention this to NT. They responded and we managed to actually pinpoint the most important problems (IMO) this week: disappearing chart drawings, sporadic candlestick spacing, and the changing ATM strategy. Whoot! Two of them were actually addressed with the release of .22.

Anyhoo - for what it is worth.

This is certainly not off-topic. The NT support is friendly and it is in their interest to debug the software. They have already removed hundreds of bugs. The only question that I cannot answer: How many more bugs are there to come and what will be the implications? I have still a number of pending requests.

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