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Ninjatrader spying on live trades
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Ninjatrader spying on live trades

  #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,651 since Mar 2010
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Conspiracy and Spys


MetalTrade View Post
Not warning your users that they are sending sensitive data to you is unacceptable.

Deleting a clear Correct post on elitetrader because it's his first post is lame. Why do u shoot the messenger ? u should better agree that u care more about negative publicity.

I moved to multicharts, i advise every trader to do so and I'm already scared what ninjatrader's next mess up will be.


It is highly probable that the post on the EliteTrader forum had the intentional purpose to dammage NinjaTrader. The poster only registered to achieve what he had in mind. This is not a proper motive to register with a trading forum. We have had a number of similar cases here, American housewives, posters that recommend unknown software nobody has heard of, etc. Again, for me this is smelly.

Ray has explained, why it is necessary to send some information on trades in a special case. This is satisfactory.

If I criticize NinjaTrader, I am not doing this to take a revenge, but simply because I would like that the product gets better, because I am not entirely satisfied. My suggestions would include encrypting information on trades, if it needs to be sent.


I am also looking for an alternative to NinjaTrader, but for different reasons:

(1) I do not want to be entirely dependent on a software with a large number of weak points (see thread https://futures.io/platforms-indicators/980-truth-ninjatrader.html)
(2) I want to expand my own knowledge and access further resources.

So, I will be looking into MultiCharts and/or CQG during the next months.

But I am not impressed by conspiracy theories or spy stories.


Last edited by Fat Tails; September 4th, 2010 at 12:13 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)
Elite Member
Europe
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, CQG Trader
Broker/Data: Mirus
Favorite Futures: currency futures, forex
 
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Transaction credits

What are transaction credits for???


NinjaTrader View Post
For the record:
  1. NinjaTrader requires trade data to comply with a licensing agreement that we have in place with Trading Technologies for use of the their static depth of market display patent (our static SuperDOM) (More information - Trading Platform. NINJATRADER. Trading Technologies Settlement.)
  2. ONLY under the following conditions does the NinjaTrader client transmit trade data to NinjaTrader servers when a trade is executed independent of what order entry window was used:
  3. This impacts a very small percentage of our user base. Less than half of 1 percent of our user base was impacted by the conditions above over the trailing three months.
  4. The collected trade data is solely used to calculate and report royalties due to Trading Technologies.
  5. As some of you have pointed out and we agree, the secure transmission of this data is important and was overlooked. As such, we have taken steps in the next release of both NinjaTrader 6.5 and 7 to transmit this data securely over HTTPS. We anticipate releasing these updates shortly.
  6. The original thread in Elite Trader was suspicious due to the fact that it was the members’ first post despite that, I did respond as I am doing so now so that our users accurately understand this item. Once the thread deviated from its original context I asked for it to be removed.
Apart from licensing information and the exception detailed above, the NinjaTrader client application does not transmit any information such as but not limited to personal, trade or strategy data to any external destination.


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  #33 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
It is highly probable that the post on th EliteTrader forum had the intentional purpose to dammage NinjaTrader. The poster only registered to achieve what he had in mind. This is not a proper motive to register with a trading forum. We have had any similar cases here, American housewives, posters that recommend unknown software, nobody has heard of, etc. Again, for me this is smelly.

I agree, and it should be noted that Ray did respond to that thread like he has here.


Quoting 
If I criticize NinjaTrader, I am not doing this to take a revenge, but simply because I would like that the product gets better, because I am not entirely satisfied.

Ditto. I own NT and use it daily. I am also rather hard on it at times because it should be a mature product, and I expect it to work and be supported. Ray does deserve credit for trying, but his hands are tied to some degree due to needing to support all of their legacy features/architecture. Eventually, NT will become my backup, and Ray could care less because I already own it. So, my only leverage is to continue to post so others, that are making a choice, can have the facts.

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  #34 (permalink)
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no purpose to dammage NT

Hi FT,

I want to state that the post referring to this issue had NOT the intentional purpose to dammage NT. I am in the same trading room as the person who has posted and we had already a serious discussion about this issue in our room before. No intention to dammage someone! Only to inform other traders. I can not verify this moment what´s going on technically, I only can state that this is a serious, honest post done by a fellow!

Have a great day!

Best
Tony


Fat Tails View Post
It is highly probable that the post on th EliteTrader forum had the intentional purpose to dammage NinjaTrader. The poster only registered to achieve what he had in mind. This is not a proper motive to register with a trading forum. We have had any similar cases here, American housewives, posters that recommend unknown software, nobody has heard of, etc. Again, for me this is smelly.

Ray has explained, why it is necessary to send some information on trades in a special case. This is satisfactory.

If I criticize NinjaTrader, I am not doing this to take a revenge, but simply because I would like that the product gets better, because I am not entirely satisfied. My suggestions would include encrypting information on trades, if it needs to be sent.


I am also looking for an alternative to NinjaTrader, but for different reasons:

(1) Do not want to be entirely dependent on a software with a large number of weak points (see thread https://futures.io/platforms-indicators/980-truth-ninjatrader.html)
(2) Want to expand my own knowledge and access further resources.

So, I will be looking into MultiCharts and/or CQG during the next months.

But I am not impressed by conspiracy theories or spy stories.


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  #35 (permalink)
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tony2604 View Post
What are transaction credits for???

Follow the link in #1 to see more info on the TT credits.

Basically, TT patented the static DOM, and so make everyone pay to use that feature.

The issue though is that the TT patent should be invalidated, but the way these things normally work, it is too expensive for Ninja (or anyone) to fight the original patent, so they settle. Settling was easy because it just screws the users not the vendor.

It should be noted that other brokerages (mine included) are still paying this fee (or I should the users are), but it is built into your commission rate. When you use the TT interface that Ninja collects credits for, the fee is not built in, so the user has to pay it as they go.

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  #36 (permalink)
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...interest...

Hi Luke,

the personal experiences and informations are important for a forum. YOU don´t need to do the same, of course. I have purchased a lifetime-license of NT and happy to be informed in a forum about issues - and other solutions.



LukeGeniol View Post
This is your personal choise and is not of interest here where u want to move, every trader can think with his mind.
It seems to me that your motives are only argumentative, and not useful at this point that the problem was cleared up.


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  #37 (permalink)
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Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. Then your fellow trader was just a bit excited. The infornation was nevertheless valuable and the subject also needs to be discussed. The headline was just a bit tough and suggesting that NinjaTrader would secretely spy out our strategies and/or allow a third party to front-run our orders.

So it comes all back to commmunication. The same contribution with a different headline would have contributed to a rational discusion - which information needs to be transmitted, why it needs to be transmitted, and how it can be protected or encrypted. This rational discussion has not taken place.

Irrationailty has won another victory here, as it often does in trading. My greetings to your fellow trader, your post has convinced me that his intentions were honest.



tony2604 View Post
Hi FT,

I want to state that the post referring to this issue had NOT the intentional purpose to dammage NT. I am in the same trading room as the person who has posted and we had already a serious discussion about this issue in our room before. No intention to dammage someone! Only to inform other traders. I can not verify this moment what´s going on technically, I only can state that this is a serious, honest post done by a fellow!

Have a great day!

Best
Tony


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  #38 (permalink)
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Of course I am excited. I hope that people realize in what problems they are starting BEFORE they buy a lifetime license.

I did not do my homework enough about ninjatrader and I ended up loosing money and lots of time. That's my fault, but you can't expect me to hide for other traders. If I can prevent somebody for having the same bad experience I had with ninjatrader I will. I hope somebody had done it with me before. The thing about logging information on a remote server, unencrypted and without notifying payed users is no way explainable. They should speak up and apologize. A good mea culpa would be nice.

The only reason users are pissed off on ninjatrader is the fault of ninjatrader themselves, please don't turn things around.

If a user selects to not post these things with his normal account, so be it. (for reasons I can understand such as receiving support and other things because that user has no choice at this moment to work with NT) Again, look at the fact, not the way the message is delivered.

Ninjatrader AGAIN messed it up = FACT

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  #39 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
Of course I am excited. I hope that people realize in what problems they are starting BEFORE they buy a lifetime license.

I did not do my homework enough about ninjatrader and I ended up loosing money and lots of time. That's my fault, but you can't expect me to hide for other traders. If I can prevent somebody for having the same bad experience I had with ninjatrader I will. I hope somebody had done it with me before. The thing about logging information on a remote server, unencrypted and without notifying payed users is no way explainable. They should speak up and apologize. A good mea culpa would be nice.

The only reason users are pissed off on ninjatrader is the fault of ninjatrader themselves, please don't turn things around.

If a user selects to not post these things with his normal account, so be it. (for reasons I can understand such as receiving support and other things because that user has no choice at this moment to work with NT) Again, look at the fact, not the way the message is delivered.

Ninjatrader AGAIN messed it up = FACT

You have made your point several times. That they are logging executions is laid out in the terms of conditions and NT already posted here and said they are addressing the encryption issue. Not sure what else you want. Continually repeating your message over and over is not adding any value anymore and frankly is making you look a little petty.

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  #40 (permalink)
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yeah maybe

the retail trading supply business is self protecting

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