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Ninjatrader spying on live trades
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Created: by MetalTrade Attachments:6

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Ninjatrader spying on live trades

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Since it is gone, let me summarize (please correct me if needed):

NT65 sends all of your order info to their servers in clear text, including your account number! This is done so they can properly charge anyone that uses TT static DOM credits. Supposedly, this is only done if you use credits.

Someone said NT was always sending the data (instead of only for TT credit users), and someone was going to confirm for NT7. I think littleSnitch was being used to monitor what was being sent.

NT7 is supposedly going to (or is) using https to send the data, which is better.

Serious privacy/security issue IMO.

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  #12 (permalink)
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my god. can anyone else confirm this

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  #13 (permalink)
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In the original elite post, Ray actually did confirm that they do it (except for the part about NT sending all data for everyone, which would be one of those NT features, er bugs).

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  #14 (permalink)
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Blimey!

Why was that post deleted on elitetrader ? There are clearly a big sponsor over there.

It might damage their reputation. Who wants to pay for software when that software (without telling you) sends data of your trades/strategy to them ? Even unprotected ?

Excuse me ?

Is this some kind of a wicked dream I'm having ? I'm done with NT.

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  #15 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
Blimey!

Why was that post deleted on elitetrader ? There are clearly a big sponsor over there.

It might damage their reputation. Who wants to pay for software when that software (without telling you) sends data of your trades/strategy to them ? Even unprotected ?

Excuse me ?

Is this some kind of a wicked dream I'm having ? I'm done with NT.

So, it was not just me? No one has been able to read that post on ET?

Glad I am not trading for a while. This is really scary. In this day and age of identity theft...

Talked to my broker and he assured me it it is not easy to use this information (account number) even if discovered by exposure on the web, but I do not trust such answers, they are too quick of a response for me.

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #16 (permalink)
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I was able to read the thread on ET before it was deleted.
I can confirm aslan summary, although I believe Ray said that all trades are sent regardless of entry tool used, but only for static super dom subscribers, and not for every ninja user.

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  #17 (permalink)
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There's a tool that can help to see what NT sends and riceve, google wpe pro.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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  #18 (permalink)
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Some detective work.


ZTR View Post
It is gone already, or is it I have to register?

I have personally seen the contribution in the EliteTrader forum. The thread has been removed this afternoon.


Now the background:

Toptrade, who registered as a member of the EliteTrader Forum on August 31, 2010 (appendix 1), started a thread "Is NinjaTrader spying on your trades? on September 2, 2010 (appendix 2). This was his first posting. I would say it smells, or let us better say it stinks, if a new member just makes a single post bashing NinjaTrader. Could well be organized by a competitor.


This is the original post of toptrade (recovered from Google Cache).

"Is NinjaTrader spying on your trades?
I was working on a buddy's computer the other day removing some malicious software when I noticed something weird going on every time he made a trade. I traced it back to NinjaTrader 6 posting all his trades to their servers
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


In this case what I was seeing was every time a trade was made through NT via an external broker it would post the trade to NinjaTrader's servers to a script called "NtLogExecution.php". I searched around on the Net and saw no mention of this so I'm wondering if people even know about it. I'm not sure if NT7 does the same thing.

What it posts to that script is your account number/name at your broker, broker name, instrument traded, exchange, date/time, type of transaction, price transaction was done at and some other stuff that I don't know what it is. It's posted in real time as you do each trade. And if that wasn't bad enough it's posted in plain clear text across the internet.

This is a huge red flag and is seriously screwed to be capturing this type of information up if you ask me. Why would they need to do this? I can think of a bunch of nefarious reasons but no legitimate reason. I don't think it's hard to imagine how this information could be used against traders for someone else's gain not to mention leaking personal information like account numbers, brokerages used, and such.

You don't have to take my word for it, load up a network tracing tool like Wireshark and see for yourself. In fact, I would appreciate it if someone else did this to confirm NT does the same thing for everyone. You have to do live trades through an external broker to see this information being sent (if you have an IB account then the paper account will work). The NT sim101 account doesn't seem to make any posts."


The following answers by Ray and another member could not be retrieved.


Second Answer by Ray

"I should have clarified on the conditions above to say "Any instance of NinjaTrader licensed for the static SuperDOM is subject to the royalty payments to Trading Technologies indpendent of what order entry screen (Basic, Chart Trader etc...) the order was submitted by."

Our next versions of NinjaTrader will submit this information via HTTPS."

Thread Continued



A bit of Fairness

I am not a fan of all features of NinjaTrader, but also I do not think that NinjaTrader is run by the CIA. There is a need for NT to collect information on trade execution to pay licence fees. The information retrieved is probably not suitable for revealing all our secrets of trading.

If anybody wants to trade against you, or try to do front-running of your orders, the broker could do that more easily. And I think that lots of brokers are doing it, but not on a regulated marekt place, but in unregulated FOREX, where they let their clients trade via their proprietary platforms. Another jungle is CFD trading, which has been promoted in the UK by the stock transaction tax. Introduce taxes and create a gray market.

Doing spying via NinjaTrader would be too complicated. There are easier ways and better targets.

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Ninjatrader spying on live trades-screenshot-1.jpg   Ninjatrader spying on live trades-screenshot-2.jpg  

Last edited by Fat Tails; September 3rd, 2010 at 07:44 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post

I am not a fan of all features of NinjaTrader, but also I do not think that NinjaTrader is run by the CIA.

I know for a fact that NT is not only run but also owned by the CIA, DEA and FBI jointly

No, you're totally right FT. If it was about revealing trade secrets this would not be very efficient. Even filtering the paid accounts and analyzing the entries/exits would be beyond every software vendor out there.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
The information retrieved is probably not suitable for revealing all our secrets of trading.

True, but that is not the point. It is a major privacy/security issue.

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