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Why I dumped ninjatrader
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Why I dumped ninjatrader

  #41 (permalink)
Elite Member
Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, TS
Broker/Data: Amp
Favorite Futures: ES
 
sharp2be's Avatar
 
Posts: 57 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 69 received

N

I agree with most comments about NT on this thread. I have a lifetime license of NT and have been using the NT 7 beta. I would say there's been big improvements on the latest beta (5)... perfect? no.

I've used pretty much every software out there in the past including TS, Ensign, Amibroker (own), QuoteTracker, Metastock (own) and others but somehow I keep coming back to eSignal... probably because I like the speed... fast to open and use the charts but again this is a personal opinion.

NT charts are very important and the programming platform is probably the best in my opinion. C# has a long way to go.
eSignal EFS is so so... takes twice as long to develop the same thing but there's a lot of code out there.
TS / Multicharts uses EasyLanguage which is probably the biggest amount of available free code out there. I like TS charts, nice... the feed? Had some issues in the past... Multicharts is really nice but I'm not sure about their decision to use EasyLanguage... I wish they had chosen C#, think they would be better positioned for the future.

Amibroker is also a nice piece of software, lots of free code out there. It's probably the fastest of them all but the language is not event driven, can be very cumbersome at times.

On other thing I enjoy in NT is the order management and how it displays my trades, I haven't seen anything like it.

I've spent more time on platforms than I should, my plan now is stick to one (two max) of them. The most important decision factor for me at this point is to invest in a platform that I know will be available on the long run. My personal order of preference:

TS & eSignal -- large companies, will probably be around for a long time
Ninja - small company but caters really well to introducing brokers...
Metastock - Reuters will be around for a long time, Metastock has been dead (development wise) for the last 5-7 years...
QuoteTracker - nice and quick platform, decided to abandon it after TD's acquision... old Delphi code, don't see how they will ever modernize it.
Sierra - don't particulary like their charts.
Ensign - beautiful and crispy charts, their development language is weird... how many more DYO can they introduce?
CQG - I hear wonderful things about it...

Again, this is only my personal opinion and I could be completely wrong in one or most cases...

Would be interested in hearing your opinions/experiences on these softwares.

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  #42 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sydney, NS
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF,S,GC
 
cclsys's Avatar
 
Posts: 607 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 248 given, 379 received

Pardon my ignorance but re:

"x86 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 7 x64: Not yet (API limitation)"

What does this mean? Are there different types of Ninja platforms?
Or: if I put in W7, it sounds like after some fussing around I should be able to run NT 6.5 like I currently am on XP 32? Or do I have to get a different version of NT 6.5?

I am suprised that NT7 won't run on 64 W7. I thought the whole point was that it took advantage of 64 bit environment.

Please understand that although I have a rough idea that 64 bit means far greater calculation capability, I don't really know what it means. I have sent Ninja emails and to my surprise - and also on the forum - there has been no response to these questions which makes me think that something is wrong somewhere. Usually on the forum someone from Ninja answers quickly. Usually if you send an email (which I rarely have done since first week on platform) they respond quickly. In this case when asking about W7 there was no answer either time.

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  #43 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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cclsys View Post
Pardon my ignorance but re:

"x86 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 7 x64: Not yet (API limitation)"

What does this mean? Are there different types of Ninja platforms?
Or: if I put in W7, it sounds like after some fussing around I should be able to run NT 6.5 like I currently am on XP 32? Or do I have to get a different version of NT 6.5?

Ninja platforms currently in use:
NT 6.5 (x86)
NT 7.0 (x86)
NT 7.0 (x64)


Quoting 
I am suprised that NT7 won't run on 64 W7. I thought the whole point was that it took advantage of 64 bit environment.

No, the "not fine" was talking about Zen Fire. NT7 x64 on x64 OS does not work with Zen Fire, just like it won't work with 99% of commercial indicators (DLL's with obfuscation). Those will need to be recompiled in x64 binary mode. So a lot of developers are making a lot of money if they are willing to recompile their products, they can charge customers a fee to get the same product all over again, but in x64 flavor.

I would imagine Zen Fire is working on x64 solution already. NT and Zen Fire are brothers in this area, I am sure it is work in progress as a very large percentage of the customer base uses Zen. It could be months before NT7 final is available, and months more before a stable release, so by then x64 Zen could be available.

If you don't use Zen, you'll have to check for compatibility, but I think eSignal and IB are already confirmed working on x64.

Mike

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Need help?
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2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
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4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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  #44 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.probabletrades.com 
OC, California, USA
 
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Platform: IB/TWS, NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Favorite Futures: stocks, options, futures, VIX
 
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cclsys View Post
Pardon my ignorance but re:

"x86 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 6.5 or NT7 x86: Fine
x64 OS w/NT 7 x64: Not yet (API limitation)"

What does this mean?

Let me break it down. There are 3 levels of programs that all have to work together.
1) Windows, 32-bit or 64-bit
2) NinjaTrader Program, 32-bit or 64-bit (v7 only)
3) 3rd party dynamic linked libraries (DLLs) that NT loads in while it's running to perform tasks, such as connect to a broker, or use a proprietary indicator that has been delivered as a DLL file.

Here are the constraints:
a) A 32-bit program can run on 64-bit Windows, but not vice versa
b) A 64-bit .NET executable/program can only work with 64-bit DLLs because they share the same 64-bit memory space. There are ways around it, but they are hacks and not very efficient. You're better off waiting for a 64-bit version of the DLLs that you need.

Historically, everything we've been doing is all 32-bit. Now that NT7 is entering the 64-bit realm, all of the DLLs (ZenFire's DLL to connect to ZenFire, proprietary indicators that are compiled as obfuscated .NET DLLs, etc) must also be converted to 64-bit as well. Otherwise, if you rely on any DLLs that do not have 64-bit versions yet then you must run the 32-bit NT7 with the accompanying 32-bit DLLs.

Personally, I hope ZenFire is on top of it and comes out with 64-bit compatibility soon after NT7's release. I'm a little concerned NT is biting off a lot in this release. I would have liked to see more incremental releases that aren't so epically reconstructive all at once. I don't have access to the beta so I'll wait and see when the final release is out. The improvements I'm most looking forward to are the speed improvements with backtesting, especially with tick and range charts.

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  #45 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT/Matlab
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: FX majors
 
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Big Mike View Post
So a lot of developers are making a lot of money if they are willing to recompile their products, they can charge customers a fee to get the same product all over again, but in x64 flavor..

Wow that is dirty, charging people for x64 binaries when it takes all of 2 seconds to recompile. It is sad that some feel they have to resort to such low tactics to make money.

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  #46 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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sefstrat View Post
Wow that is dirty, charging people for x64 binaries when it takes all of 2 seconds to recompile. It is sad that some feel they have to resort to such low tactics to make money.

I don't know that I would consider it dirty... I haven't done it personally, but I am sure several developers on this forum have. I think it's reasonable for them to be paid for their time to dust off prior products and make them compatible with NT7 and provide a x64 DLL option.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #47 (permalink)
Elite Member
UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: ib
Favorite Futures: Electric Guitar
 
Mindset's Avatar
 
Posts: 355 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 88 given, 285 received

Will 64bit operation really be that much quicker - any stats anybody?
Personally I would like NT to get a fast ,robust 32 bit version of NT7 up and running first before they bite off a whole new chunk of "improvement".
Most users I feel will not use the extra capability of 64 over 32 (IMHO)

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  #48 (permalink)
Just starting out...
fort worth, tx usa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: futures
 
texbest's Avatar
 
Posts: 5 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 4 given, 1 received

n/t problems

hi all. like tortexa i have experienced some major problems with the n/t platform. did a limit short sell order and was filled 10 points above my order. plus dom showed a 62k profit on another order same day. amp said to dump my data and problem would be fixed. never did get them to credit my 10 point slip. also use open e cry platform and will dump one as i test further. so far e cry may be the winner.

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