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Real VS Simulation
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Real VS Simulation

  #1 (permalink)
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Real VS Simulation

Some years ago I tried to trade in real, but I give up only for the huge difference between how behave NT in simulation and real trading.

I am not speaking about "psicotrading", is a real but a cheap explanation here, because what I discovered is when I have two screens opened, showing one the market with the real account an other with simulation account the information was different, the slippage amazingly bigger, etc...

But... Some month ago a friend tempted me again with the trading and I come back on simulation, like in the past the results are enough good to try again, and after four months I prepare myself very seriously with a good computer and a fiber optic connection of 200MB (no wifi, of course) and I decide to try, and for avoiding the excessive volume and volatility I trade on the morning (Europe Time) with CL and QC, but...

Today, the firs day that I have enter and order with CL in real on NT the things become crazy:

1. When I sent the order on the DOM it doesn't appear on any chart. After I try with the SIM option and the order appear in every chart... I have a lease NT, but I have not seen in https://ninjatrader.com/es/LicenseComparison any information about this.

2. No need to say that the slippage, again, is huge, no one o two ticks, but six, and the volume was high but not too much high and volatility normal.

3. I had a target for closing, but the other crazy thing is that when the price took it and close the trade, just after, appear the trailing stop, but in the log is at the same time. I close it as fast as I could because I didn't know what could have happened if I am not so fast.

Really...? I am the only one that have this kind of weird situation...?

The last time that I trade en real, years ago, I have seen more than one time how NT closed a position set without touching the price, the difference of the information between real and simulation, I have seen many crazy things, and I thought that maybe it was my fault, a lack of Internet Connection or... But, again?

I have tried because on simulation I have good results, but my experience says that with a small account and this kind of weird things it is nearly imposible that no one can win. The different trading system vendors say another thing, normal, but I have never seen them trading for real in any webinar, and now I start -again- to understand why.

Someone can or want to give me some advice or I give up again directly? Because today I won, but I don't trust that with this kind of things I can do it too many time, it seems that the normal thing will be to lose.

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  #2 (permalink)
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Perhaps you should take these concerns up with Ninja support? The issues you have typed about are disturbing. Start a dialog with Ninja and see if it can be resolved before you try any more real live trading.

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  #3 (permalink)
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1) in NT platform, you need to open your chart trader settings and select your account there. It usually defaults to Sim account and that is why you did not see you order on your chart. There is a button at the top of your chart for chart trader.
2) you are trading CL, which is very thin market. Slippage is to be expected. If you don't want to get slipped, use limit orders instead.

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  #4 (permalink)
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sagor View Post
2) you are trading CL, which is very thin market. Slippage is to be expected. If you don't want to get slipped, use limit orders instead.

CL is thin? In your eyes, what is a thick market?

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  #5 (permalink)
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HoopyTrading View Post
CL is thin? In your eyes, what is a thick market?

ES majority of the time.
ZN is thick market. It has 2000-3000 contracts at offer\bid all the time. That is the thick market.
If you place market order, you will not get slipped there in 99% cases.

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  #6 (permalink)
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sagor View Post
ES majority of the time.
ZN is thick market. It has 2000-3000 contracts at offer\bid all the time. That is the thick market.
If you place market order, you will not get slipped there in 99% cases.

Can you please explain to me why I can get limit orders filled on MGC contracts on forward months, which on some days have a volume of 8, or 10, or 12 and the order goes through? Just good luck? Surely that is a thin market. But the limit orders get filled with NO problem on those days. So why on a thick market like ZN would I need to use a market order, with it's 2000-3000 bid/offers?

Mostly curiously yours,

Hoopy.


Last edited by HoopyTrading; October 30th, 2016 at 09:04 PM.
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  #7 (permalink)
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HoopyTrading View Post
Can you please explain to me why I can get limit orders filled on MGC contracts on forward months, which on some days have a volume of 8, or 10, or 12 and the order goes through? Just good luck? Surely that is a thin market. But the limit orders get filled with NO problem on those days. So why on a thick market like ZN would I need to use a market order, with it's 2000-3000 bid/offers?

Mostly curiously yours,

Hoopy.

Huh?
I am not sure that I understand your question.
Limit order by definition has no slippage (in some rare cases you can get positive slippage, but it is rare).
Say limit buy order: buy limit at 100
means that you either get fillet at 100 or below, or not filled at all. If price has moved to 101, you will not get filled, and instead your order will be waiting at 100 until it will get filled.

Market buy order means give me a fill right now, I don't care what price.
And so if market is thin, by the time your order makes to exchange and executed, there is a high chance that price has moved away and you will get slippage.

Hope this helps.

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  #8 (permalink)
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sagor View Post
Huh?
I am not sure that I understand your question.
Limit order by definition has no slippage (in some rare cases you can get positive slippage, but it is rare).
Say limit buy order: buy limit at 100
means that you either get fillet at 100 or below, or not filled at all. If price has moved to 101, you will not get filled, and instead your order will be waiting at 100 until it will get filled.

Market buy order means give me a fill right now, I don't care what price.
And so if market is thin, by the time your order makes to exchange and executed, there is a high chance that price has moved away and you will get slippage.

Hope this helps.

My point was that if you can get filled on a limit order fairly quickly on a very thin market, why not use limit orders in a thick market like ZN? Why have a market order filled with potential slippage when a limit order should fill very quickly at the price you wish to enter?

In thick markets, do the limit orders get overlooked and "overstepped" as opposed to thinner instruments?


Last edited by HoopyTrading; October 31st, 2016 at 01:23 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #9 (permalink)
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HoopyTrading View Post
My point was that if you can get filled on a limit order fairly quickly on a very thin market, why not use limit orders in a thick market like ZN? Why have a market order filled with potential slippage when a limit order should fill very quickly at the price you wish to enter?

Or in thick markets, the limit orders get overlooked and "overstepped"?

Ah. Got it.
It depends. Limit order doesn't guarantee fill. It is all a matter of urgency.
If you think price is about to blast off, you might want to enter via market order, as limit might not get filled.
If you think price will move up and down before the move, then it makes sense to enter via limit.

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