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Ninja back test: real or fake


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Ninja back test: real or fake

  #11 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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mcteague View Post
Thanks for explaining this. that could certainly explain the difference in the number of entries. I also appreciate the explanation of how back testing results can be falsely affected by the way I lay out my stops and targets. That was very interesting.

It just seems to me that since we have these tools we should try to find out what our setups and indicators are really worth. That is pretty much all I am trying to do. When a trend indicator like MACD, PPO, or TSI cross their signal lines how reliable is that as a trading signal? What does it really mean? These kinds of indicators are the easiest examine this way. So that is where I am starting. I think even people not interested in automated trading should try and test their setups to see whether they have any real chance of making money.

Again thanks for the "number of entries" explanation. I just did not know.


Just to be perfectly clear, the backtest is correct. It does not give "false" results. The results may not reflect what you wanted to actually backtest, but that is not the backtest software's fault.

I mention this because having faith that backtest results are correct is crucial to gaining confidence in developing and testing systems. This confidence will come with time, as you discover the many quirks of trading software.

Good Luck!

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  #12 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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Also, if you want to test entries, to see if a setup is valid, simply try exiting after 1, 2, 3, etc. bars after entry. You'll see if the entry is good or bad, and you'll see if you are early or late in trades.

Once you get more adept at developing systems, you could also exit after X bars, where X is chosen at random. Run it enough times, and you'll get some statistics on how good your entry is.

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 jupiejupe 
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NT backtesting is a waste of time, unless your system is using large time frames, we are not even backtesting any more as nt only uses last price, and orders are placed the the next bar from the one in which the order was generated. we are looking to extending a backtesting engine or writing our own, we have not yet settle on a solution.

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  #14 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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jupiejupe View Post
NT backtesting is a waste of time, unless your system is using large time frames, we but not even back test any more as nt 9only uses last price, and orders are placed the the next bar from the single. we are looking to extending a backtesting engine or writing our own, we have not yet settle on a solution.

Disagree. My guess is you are using the software incorrectly, or in a manner for which it was not designed. It is easy to fool a backtest engine, but when used properly, backtesting can be very accurate.

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 jupiejupe 
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what time frames are you backtesting?

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  #16 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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jupiejupe View Post
what time frames are you backtesting?

I've tested down to 1 minute data with Ninja, tick data with other platforms.

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  #17 (permalink)
 
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 jupiejupe 
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we used to have a strategy that used 10 bars, the backtest and live trading would match up 98% of the time, that was with nt 6.5, which as far as i know was the same becktest engine as nt7.

we are now using subminute time frames the backtesting and live testing now no longer match, not even close.

Signals are sent on the next bar that is a large lag in the subminute world. nt7 only uses last price in backtesting ask and bid is not available. which is a issue, because then you could write your own fills depending on if either touch your order.

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  #18 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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jupiejupe View Post
we used to have a strategy that used 10 bars, the backtest and live trading would match up 98% of the time, that was with nt 6.5, which as far as i know was the same becktest engine as nt7.

we are now using subminute time frames the backtesting and live testing now no longer match, not even close.

Signals are sent on the next bar that is a large lag in the subminute world. nt7 only uses last price in backtesting ask and bid is not available. which is a issue, because then you could write your own fills depending on if either touch your order.

Gotcha. But that doesn't mean backtesting is a waste of time. There are limits to what any software tool can do, and you likely may have run up against one. Another platform might eliminate your issue, or maybe adjusting your strategy to again match backtest results is the solution.

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if we had access to behind the curtain in nt it would not be an issue, but we do not, we have looked at other platforms as well (but our trading tools and system are in c# so any move is limited to this lang or some funky work around) and they are all the same, tradelink looked promising but once we looked at the code it is mainly hardcoded so it has limited use. we are looking into qusma stuff, which we do not have to start of ground zero.

my cousin just released his own programming language you can think of it like easy language but with the full power of .net behind it.

essencesharp.codeplex.com

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