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The Cost of Ninjatrader
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The Cost of Ninjatrader

  #1 (permalink)
Banned: Negative attitude, troll
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The Cost of Ninjatrader

I have been considering saving up to purchase a lifetime subscription to Ninjatrader. However I have been unable to estimate how the ~$1000 price tag was arrived at. I understand that Ninjatrader offers many things which other free or lower priced platforms do not all offer, such as automated strategies, user-friendly coding abilities, and historical replay and simulated trading.

A good comparison is with Photoshop, which has been developed by teams of hundreds of developers for over twenty five years, currently there are 41 active developers who worked on Photoshop CS6. Adobe Photoshop CS6 costs $699 for a lifetime, non-upgradable, copy. Reduced rates apply to students. Therefore most who pay for Photoshop at the full price are doing that for their business needs and have a near guarantee that by purchasing Photoshop they will increase their profitability. Unlike for graphic designers, when it comes to trading products, there is no reduced rate for the student nor is there necessarily a high probability of making profits after purchasing an expensive product. Therefore one has to either lease Ninjatrader and try to use it a lot within a month or two to see if it is a profitable product before buying it or they must make a gamble. I am not sure that this gamble is justified, although the popularity of Ninjatrader on this forum and with Mack of Price Action Trading is a pro in favor of making that gamble.

I checked Ninjatrader's copyright info, several of the copyrights are from individuals not directly affiliated with Ninjatrader LLC, such as quickfix (2001-2005), openSmtp.net - C# SMTP library Copyright (C) 2001-2004 Ian Stallings, and openssl, 1998-2004. I am unable to determine how many developers are/were working on Ninjatrader itself.

My opinion, as of now, is that the ~$1000 price is not justified until more info can be gathered on the development process, developers, and the costs involved, as well as how stable an organization Ninjatrader is, since free lifetime updates are included in the ~1000 dollar purchase.

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  #2 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Las Vegas, NV
 
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Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
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KosherTrader View Post
I have been considering saving up to purchase a lifetime subscription to Ninjatrader. However I have been unable to estimate how the ~$1000 price tag was arrived at. I understand that Ninjatrader offers many things which other free or lower priced platforms do not all offer, such as automated strategies, user-friendly coding abilities, and historical replay and simulated trading.

A good comparison is with Photoshop, which has been developed by teams of hundreds of developers for over twenty five years, currently there are 41 active developers who worked on Photoshop CS6. Adobe Photoshop CS6 costs $699 for a lifetime, non-upgradable, copy. Reduced rates apply to students. Therefore most who pay for Photoshop at the full price are doing that for their business needs and have a near guarantee that by purchasing Photoshop they will increase their profitability. Unlike for graphic designers, when it comes to trading products, there is no reduced rate for the student nor is there necessarily a high probability of making profits after purchasing an expensive product. Therefore one has to either lease Ninjatrader and try to use it a lot within a month or two to see if it is a profitable product before buying it or they must make a gamble. I am not sure that this gamble is justified, although the popularity of Ninjatrader on this forum and with Mack of Price Action Trading is a pro in favor of making that gamble.

I checked Ninjatrader's copyright info, several of the copyrights are from individuals not directly affiliated with Ninjatrader LLC, such as quickfix (2001-2005), openSmtp.net - C# SMTP library Copyright (C) 2001-2004 Ian Stallings, and openssl, 1998-2004. I am unable to determine how many developers are/were working on Ninjatrader itself.

My opinion, as of now, is that the ~$1000 price is not justified until more info can be gathered on the development process, developers, and the costs involved, as well as how stable an organization Ninjatrader is, since free lifetime updates are included in the ~1000 dollar purchase.

@KosherTrader,

I don't want to speak for Ninjatrader and have no affiliation, but I am not sure what your point is. Ninja trader is a company and their platform is like many others out there. It is very popular because of their DOM and chart trader capability plus it is so easy and flexible to program in C+ any strategy you want. They have many thousands of users and growing every day. They do not nickel and dime you for new features or future updates.

As for pricing, it is so easy. It is free for life with all updates to use in demo with full functionality. It costs $1000 for a live license if you decide to start trading with real money. That simple. That is their business plan. They give it to you free to try all you want until you are serious enough to use it as a business tool then you pay $1000.

So, go ahead download it and use it as long as you want in demo for free. When you decide to go live, talk to them, they have some kinds of pay plans so you do not have to pay all the $1000 in advance.

Cheers!

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  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
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KosherTrader View Post
I have been considering saving up to purchase a lifetime subscription to Ninjatrader. However I have been unable to estimate how the ~$1000 price tag was arrived at. I understand that Ninjatrader offers many things which other free or lower priced platforms do not all offer, such as automated strategies, user-friendly coding abilities, and historical replay and simulated trading.

A good comparison is with Photoshop, which has been developed by teams of hundreds of developers for over twenty five years, currently there are 41 active developers who worked on Photoshop CS6. Adobe Photoshop CS6 costs $699 for a lifetime, non-upgradable, copy. Reduced rates apply to students. Therefore most who pay for Photoshop at the full price are doing that for their business needs and have a near guarantee that by purchasing Photoshop they will increase their profitability. Unlike for graphic designers, when it comes to trading products, there is no reduced rate for the student nor is there necessarily a high probability of making profits after purchasing an expensive product. Therefore one has to either lease Ninjatrader and try to use it a lot within a month or two to see if it is a profitable product before buying it or they must make a gamble. I am not sure that this gamble is justified, although the popularity of Ninjatrader on this forum and with Mack of Price Action Trading is a pro in favor of making that gamble.

I checked Ninjatrader's copyright info, several of the copyrights are from individuals not directly affiliated with Ninjatrader LLC, such as quickfix (2001-2005), openSmtp.net - C# SMTP library Copyright (C) 2001-2004 Ian Stallings, and openssl, 1998-2004. I am unable to determine how many developers are/were working on Ninjatrader itself.

My opinion, as of now, is that the ~$1000 price is not justified until more info can be gathered on the development process, developers, and the costs involved, as well as how stable an organization Ninjatrader is, since free lifetime updates are included in the ~1000 dollar purchase.

Hmmm...curious why all that is so important. If NT does all that you need it to do then the pricetag isn't so bad, imo. If you think otherwise then for you it isn't worth it. So, if that is what you feel why even bring it up. Just don't see anything in your post saying what your goal is in making your comments.

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  #4 (permalink)
Banned: Negative attitude, troll
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I am weighing pros and cons for Ninjatrader within the community and seeking additional info from Ninjatrader LLC on the cost of development.

Ninjatrader is priced compared to other platforms like Mercedes are to Hyundais. What is so much better about Ninjatrader?


Last edited by KosherTrader; October 22nd, 2013 at 11:37 PM.
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  #5 (permalink)
Banned: Negative attitude, troll
Winchester VA/USA
 
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from what I have read Ninjatrader's SuperDOM is not as popular or well reviewed as Jigsaw Trader's DOM

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  #6 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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KosherTrader View Post

Ninjatrader is priced compared to other platforms like Mercedes are to Hyundais. What is so much better about Ninjatrader?

Which trading platform Hyundai you are driving that is priced less than a $1000 Mercedes?

For your information, Jigsaw is a good DOM without the ATM, charting, and programming capabilities of NinjaTrader. But that is all and you will have to pay $50 a month to use it live after you have paid $399. There is a wealth of information under Vendors section in this forum that you can benefit from.

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  #7 (permalink)
 Vendor: diversifyportfolio.com 
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@KosherTrader, most of your threads are about everything being too expensive in the world of trading:

The first was about futures.io (formerly BMT) elite membership
Then Jigsaw
Then Ninjatrader

It's reasonable to want to shop around for the best deal with any purchase, but if these sorts of startup costs are really that much of an issue then you are not in a place financially to begin trading. It is what it is, take it or leave it.

futures.io (formerly BMT) has massive amounts of useful information, webinars and downloads in the free section. If you like what you see and want more, get an elite membership.

Jigsaw has a two week money back guarentee. Try it for two weeks and if you dont like it, get your money back.

Ninjatrader is 100% free to use in SIM with LIVE market data. You can do absolutely everything Ninjatrader has to offer for free until such time as you want to trade live. Again,....try it and see if you want to buy it.

Trading is hard and you're going to be up against the best in the world with unlimited funds behind them. You need to be well capitalized to stand any chance of surviving the learning curve. If saving a few hundred dollars on initial startup costs for software is an issue,..then you are no where near well capitalized enough to survive the learning curve that is yet to come.

Sorry to be blunt, but your threads all revolve around the same topic of trading startup costs being too expensive. It is what it is. Try the free trials. Take it or leave it. How they choose to price their products is a business decision and has nothing to do with you ultimately becoming a successful trader.

Diversification is the only free lunch
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  #8 (permalink)
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@KosherTrader

You can start using NT for live trades for free by using "Direct Edition" version.
Of course it is a limited functionality version, but it's free.

NinjaTrader

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  #9 (permalink)
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@KosherTrader

You can simply pay the 50$ per month charge for a lease, and now all of a sudden NT7 becomes comparable to all the other famous platforms in use on this forum.
You don't really need to pay for a life-time license ($995) although this is the logical next step once you try NT7 and feel confident and happy with its capabilities.

In fact, you'd better also try Sierrachart for a while too, it is 45$ per month if I am not mistaken, and then you chose the one that feels better to you.

I personally went with NT7 because of its life-time license, I hate paying infinitely recurring monthly fees, but that's just me. In reality, I was comfortable with all the platforms that I tried, and I did try many they all suited my trading style and requirements...

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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  #10 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Fadi View Post
@KosherTrader

...
In fact, you'd better also try Sierrachart for a while too, it is 45$ per month if I am not mistaken, and then you chose the one that feels better to you.
.....

some broker offer SC basic level free.

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