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NinjaTrader 7 under Wine
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NinjaTrader 7 under Wine

  #41 (permalink)
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rleplae View Post
Virutalbox works good, I had NinjaTrader running with live trades on my box and I had 3 instances running in virtual box for testing. It all runs smoothly together without a problem, very stable and fast.

Man, that's something I'm very skeptical on (damn worried if something breaks :x)

But I'm not trading anymore, just using TA for entry buy in stocks after screening their fundamentals. Works well for that.

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  #42 (permalink)
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Azrael View Post
Man, that's something I'm very skeptical on (damn worried if something breaks :x)

But I'm not trading anymore, just using TA for entry buy in stocks after screening their fundamentals. Works well for that.

VirtualBox or VMWare Player works fine, no need to be skeptical .
I'll be about 1000 times more skeptical in using Ninjatrader with Wine (see "details" here).
The only people choosing Wine vs a light hypervisor like VBox or VMWare, and now Hyper-V for Windows 10, may be Linux fundamentalist and Windows allergic, there is no good reason to try Wine if you want to have something usable and stable.

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  #43 (permalink)
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swinger View Post
Ninja is still working fine on Wine?

I was thinking of running Ninja in a virtual machine, but if it works great on Wine, that's even better (i.e., faster and more responsive).

Yes, it works. A downside is the quite bigger CPU usage (2-3 times more), but the software itself is working.
It should be better in Mono, but I haven't tried that yet.

However a vitrual machine would most probably take bigger toll on CPU than Wine, although it's hardware dependant.

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  #44 (permalink)
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kypa View Post

However a vitrual machine would most probably take bigger toll on CPU than Wine, although it's hardware dependant.

Not sure about that
I ran 3 dropbox instances in parallel and one in front, so 4 parallel independant NT
and the CPU didn't even go above 30-40% load at full speed market replay speed...

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  #45 (permalink)
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sam028 View Post
VirtualBox or VMWare Player works fine, no need to be skeptical .
I'll be about 1000 times more skeptical in using Ninjatrader with Wine (see "details" here).
The only people choosing Wine vs a light hypervisor like VBox or VMWare, and now Hyper-V for Windows 10, may be Linux fundamentalist and Windows allergic, there is no good reason to try Wine if you want to have something usable and stable.


Wine 1.7.47 (the one used for the test results on the WineHQ link) is the version right before last Ninja issues were fixed in Wine. These force closes the dude is talking about are fixed through the winetricks addings we've mentioned before (he wrote the review before adding them).
While it's true this is more about us - the Linux obsessed nuts, the choice of Wine over Windows (both real and virtual install) can also be related with license issues. Not everybody owns a Windows licence or wants/can afford to pay MS a few hundred bucks. Pirating isn't an option everywhere worldwide.
Hypervisors are hardware dependent, CPU mostly (if CPU doesn't support hardware virtualisation there isn't really any light hypervising).
The real issue with Wine, especially in summer, is CPU usage - neighter Ninja nor MetaTraders (probably most others too) are optimised to run in Wine and CPU usage is usually quite higher.
I myself keep a separate Windows OS for trading, mostly because of this.

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  #46 (permalink)
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rleplae View Post
Not sure about that
I ran 3 dropbox instances in parallel and one in front, so 4 parallel independant NT
and the CPU didn't even go above 30-40% load at full speed market replay speed...

It really depends on hardware. If you do this on a Haswell/Broadwell with 8+ GB of RAM 1.5+ of which is assigned for every box you shouldn't feel much difference than running 4 instances of NinjaTrader on a single Windows system (with or without virtualisation). If you try this on a BayTrail or some mobile build with less than 4 GB of RAM it will be a totally different picture.
If CPU doesn't support hardware virtualisation the hypervising creates some CPU overhead, and if there is not enough RAM there is extensive HDD usage - that was my point.

P.S. While we're talking about non-Microsoft hypervisors in Windows 8.1 (probably 10 as well) Hyper-V (a quite efficient server hypervisor) couldn't handle some hardware (videocards especially), so if Hyper-V is somehow used for the virtualisation process it would take more CPU usage than VB or VMWare's.


Last edited by kypa; June 2nd, 2016 at 09:38 AM.
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  #47 (permalink)
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kypa View Post
It really depends on hardware. If you do this on a Haswell/Broadwell with 8+ GB of RAM 1.5+ of which is assigned for every box you shouldn't feel much difference than running 4 instances of NinjaTrader on a single Windows system (with or without virtualisation). If you try this on a BayTrail or some mobile build with less than 4 GB of RAM it will be a totally different picture.
If CPU doesn't support hardware virtualisation the hypervising creates some CPU overhead, and if there is not enough RAM there is extensive HDD usage - that was my point.

P.S. While we're talking about non-Microsoft hypervisors in Windows 8.1 (probably 10 as well) Hyper-V (a quite efficient server hypervisor) couldn't handle some hardware (videocards especially), so if Hyper-V is somehow used for the virtualisation process it would take more CPU usage than VB or VMWare's.

Whatever the CPU used Wine will be slower than a VM. Trying to create a VM on Atom processor doesn't make sense, but why not, Wine will stay slower than a VM (in paravirtualization mode too).
The comment about Hyper-V vs VMWare, VBox (or Xen, KVM/QEMU) is not accurate: with VT instructions set the performance is similar whatever the hypervisor chosen.

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  #48 (permalink)
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sam028 View Post
Whatever the CPU used Wine will be slower than a VM. Trying to create a VM on Atom processor doesn't make sense, but why not, Wine will stay slower than a VM (in paravirtualization mode too).
The comment about Hyper-V vs VMWare, VBox (or Xen, KVM/QEMU) is not accurate: with VT instructions set the performance is similar whatever the hypervisor chosen.

What makes you think Wine would be slower than a VM? It is an environment, not an emulator - the binaries are executed directly, there is no translation/emulation of anything. There is no reason to be slower (or faster - if that matters).
Both Wine and VM are direct execution, the difference is the extra executed code or running extra OS - both will run at the same speed (until the hardware resources are full of course).

In Hyper-V the virtualisation will be perfect, the extra CPU usage will come from the lack of graphic acceleration - Ninja uses GA, Hyper-V does not support it, while both VirtualBox and VMWare Player/Workstation provide some.
I don't know much about Hyper-V though, if there is some graphic acceleration support added (or if you build a multi-videocard system and assign one specifically to guest OS - that should be possible) there should be no difference.
This is just extra CPU usage though - not worse performance (until CPU isn't fully engaged).

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  #49 (permalink)
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Hi, I have been having a lot of issues with NT8 (and 7..) and different 3rd party indicators not seeming to play nice together, yet all are said to work individually.

Long story short, I'm now thinking that running NT on virtual machines might be worth a shot after talking to a completely separate non-trading programmer on the weekend.

After doing some research, I came across someone talking about how to address the latency issues of running 1 or more virtual machines on the same HDD as the host OS by using separate 7200rpm HDD's for each virtual machine that is to be run and having the host OS on its own HDD. Claims that it makes a noticeable difference to the point that there is no real difference seen between normal setup and running virtual machines.

My current setup is :
ASUS Crosshair V Formula Z
AMD FX-9590 8core 4.7Ghz (has AMD-V / AMD Virtualization technology)
32gb DDR3 RAM
R9 290X graphics card
4 x 1080p monitors.

Have a spare 250gb SSD for host OS (Win 8.1 pro)
Grabbed 3 x WD blue 1tb 7200rpm for the virtual machines. (Win 8.1)

The idea is to setup 3 bare bones virtual machines with NT8 on each one, each NT8 will get 1 3rd parties tools. Hopefully so they will all run but at the very least so that it can be narrowed down to find what is causing all the errors popping up in NT8.

My major issue is data. Currently use IQFeed for the quality of it and which allows as many connections as needed on the same machine but virtual machines are essentially individual machines. Is there a way to put IQFeed on the host OS and then get each NT8 to find IQFeed on the host machine to launch and get data through? I noticed with virtual box that some things seem to be shared between the host OS and any virtual machines, is this possible to setup for IQFeed?

Ideally, if it works, I would like to be able to use the charts from each virtual machine laid out over the 4 monitors like my current setup. There is a bit of mixing of whats on each monitor currently (vendor A & B share monitor 1, A & C share another and so on) but these can be changed around to grouping them together if need be.

Would Virtual Box be able to do this? Or should I be looking at a different virtual machine program?

Is any of this even possible?

Any feedback, tips or help would be greatly appreciated!

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  #50 (permalink)
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SilverFut View Post
Hi, I have been having a lot of issues with NT8 (and 7..) and different 3rd party indicators not seeming to play nice together, yet all are said to work individually.

Long story short, I'm now thinking that running NT on virtual machines might be worth a shot after talking to a completely separate non-trading programmer on the weekend.

After doing some research, I came across someone talking about how to address the latency issues of running 1 or more virtual machines on the same HDD as the host OS by using separate 7200rpm HDD's for each virtual machine that is to be run and having the host OS on its own HDD. Claims that it makes a noticeable difference to the point that there is no real difference seen between normal setup and running virtual machines.

My current setup is :
ASUS Crosshair V Formula Z
AMD FX-9590 8core 4.7Ghz (has AMD-V / AMD Virtualization technology)
32gb DDR3 RAM
R9 290X graphics card
4 x 1080p monitors.

Have a spare 250gb SSD for host OS (Win 8.1 pro)
Grabbed 3 x WD blue 1tb 7200rpm for the virtual machines. (Win 8.1)

The idea is to setup 3 bare bones virtual machines with NT8 on each one, each NT8 will get 1 3rd parties tools. Hopefully so they will all run but at the very least so that it can be narrowed down to find what is causing all the errors popping up in NT8.

My major issue is data. Currently use IQFeed for the quality of it and which allows as many connections as needed on the same machine but virtual machines are essentially individual machines. Is there a way to put IQFeed on the host OS and then get each NT8 to find IQFeed on the host machine to launch and get data through? I noticed with virtual box that some things seem to be shared between the host OS and any virtual machines, is this possible to setup for IQFeed?

Ideally, if it works, I would like to be able to use the charts from each virtual machine laid out over the 4 monitors like my current setup. There is a bit of mixing of whats on each monitor currently (vendor A & B share monitor 1, A & C share another and so on) but these can be changed around to grouping them together if need be.

Would Virtual Box be able to do this? Or should I be looking at a different virtual machine program?

Is any of this even possible?

Any feedback, tips or help would be greatly appreciated!

First of all - congratulation for the quite awesome system!
Ninja 8 is still a beta I think - there should be issues with custom indicators. Are you having the same error codes in 7 and 8? If not - the problems will persist in whatever setup you make until either Ninja 8 is mature enough or the custom indicators are rewritten.
There should be no issues with this setup, only conflict is how the guests will share the GPU, but I believe Virtual Box can handle it nicely. You can even put the guests on the SSD, no real need of extra HDD.
The real question is why would you run four OSes simultaneously just for the sake of running four instances of one program? Why not use some sandboxing software - it will virtualise Ninja only, while all hardware is handled by a single kernel. You might even get away with IQFeed recognising it as multiple connections on same PC. And you'll have all Ninja windows freely rolling on your desktop, not window-in-a-window as with virtual OSes. You might be able to separate them better with virtual desktops (Win 8.1 option). There was some merge guest and host desktops function, but I'm not really sure on which hypervisor software I've seen it.
You may ask the programmer dude (or someone else) for advice on sandboxing software though, I don't really know much about that.

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