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UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type
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UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type

  #281 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
@kronie,

Not sure If I understand the question as you intended. But here is my understanding of trading Renko type bars:

Unirenko or Renko type bars in general are a kind of volatility bars. Their size determine a volatility range which I think if reached there will be a breakout in that direction. One determines the bar size based on a volatility that matches one's risk comfort. If 20 tick risk is too much risk, then perhaps something smaller, but targets need to be smaller too. Therefore, it does not make sense to wait for so many bars to enter a trade after the breakout has already occurred.

Case in example; CL tends to move in ranges of 10 ticks. So, a UniRenko of the size 10 or 20 makes sense. The entry will be one tick above or below the close of the bar, simple. Otherwise if one waits and enters after so many bars, each additional bar is another 10 ticks. After 3 bars CL has already moved 30 ticks. Do you really want to enter a position there? That is three times the size of the volatility and the swing move is usually exhausted by then.

All said, I find 20 ticks move in CL (size 20) will more often result in a continuation to over 50 ticks than smaller bar size. A 10 tick size is more prone to whipsaw. But, regardless of the size, the best is to enter right after the close of the signal bar. Otherwise, the volatility range basis for selecting the bar size is totally ignored.

CHEERS!

Hi aligator
good point. Can I ask what you are using to determine the "volatility range" on the CL and also for an example of the uni renko bar settings you refer to ie the T, R and O values.
all the best..

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  #282 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
@kronie,

Not sure If I understand the question as you intended. But here is my understanding of trading Renko type bars:

Unirenko or Renko type bars in general are a kind of volatility bars. Their size determine a volatility range which I think if reached there will be a breakout in that direction. One determines the bar size based on a volatility that matches one's risk comfort. If 20 tick risk is too much risk, then perhaps something smaller, but targets need to be smaller too. Therefore, it does not make sense to wait for so many bars to enter a trade after the breakout has already occurred.

Case in example; CL tends to move in ranges of 10 ticks. So, a UniRenko of the size 10 or 20 makes sense. The entry will be one tick above or below the close of the bar, simple. Otherwise if one waits and enters after so many bars, each additional bar is another 10 ticks. After 3 bars CL has already moved 30 ticks. Do you really want to enter a position there? That is three times the size of the volatility and the swing move is usually exhausted by then.

All said, I find 20 ticks move in CL (size 20) will more often result in a continuation to over 50 ticks than smaller bar size. A 10 tick size is more prone to whipsaw. But, regardless of the size, the best is to enter right after the close of the signal bar. Otherwise, the volatility range basis for selecting the bar size is totally ignored.

CHEERS!

@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

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  #283 (permalink)
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Raj1 View Post
@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

Glad to see some are keeping the thread alive - kinda.

I went through this Thread last week and set up my UniRenko charts. I have the 1/4/1, 2/4/2, and 4/8/4 for Trend.

I practiced using the 1/4/1, but finally gave that one up last night as it moved against me too many times. So this week I'll just trade off the 2/4/2 chart and see how I do.

Raj1, could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means? It's an off-set of 2. So does that mean that a uniRenko bar opens two ticks above a real bar open? Maybe sounds like a picky question, but if one uses close stops then it makes a difference. I can't get my head around the uniRenko Open concept and the reasoning behind it. The T and R are easy to see on the chart.

BTW, I trade the USD/JPY. Beautiful swings - wish I'd be at the computer when they're happening. Last night (my night session) was awesome. monpere has a special spot in heaven for his generosity in "freely" sharing and for helping so many.

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  #284 (permalink)
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Kelsey View Post
..., could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means? ...

O= offset, O2 = 2 ticks offset = plot next bar 2 ticks away from previous bar

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  #285 (permalink)
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Raj1 View Post
@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

@Raj1,

Good point as far as UniRenko bars. However, If the trend setting, T, is set to one ticks then entering three bars after the signal bar, is similar to placing your limit entry at breakout plus 3 ticks.

The point I was trying to make was that one has already established a volatility range (10-20 ticks for CL) based on one's risk tolerance, then the entry should be right after the breakout. Otherwise, the one waits to enter after the breakout the less his potential gain before the next level of the volatility S/R is reached.

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  #286 (permalink)
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What's the "O" parameter?


Kelsey View Post
could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means?

To begin with, remember that the "open" of a unirenko bar is fictitious. You can make that open anything you want by changing the O parameter.

@monpere refers to it as the offset, the number of ticks by which the open of a new bar displays inside the body of the previous bar. The minimum setting is 1, so at the least the open must display 1 tick inside the close of the previous bar. You could also think of O as shorthand for overlap (of the previous bar's body by the new bar's body)

Some here like the O1 appearance, while others like the overlap more closely approach the midpoint of its predecessor. I like O1 because it increases the likelihood of a wick projecting out of the Open end of the candle body, showing me an actual price rather than the made up Open.

Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

Hope this helps.

dwt51

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dwt51 View Post
To begin with, remember that the "open" of a unirenko bar is fictitious. You can make that open anything you want by changing the O parameter.

@monpere refers to it as the offset, the number of ticks by which the open of a new bar displays inside the body of the previous bar. The minimum setting is 1, so at the least the open must display 1 tick inside the close of the previous bar. You could also think of O as shorthand for overlap (of the previous bar's body by the new bar's body)

Some here like the O1 appearance, while others like the overlap more closely approach the midpoint of its predecessor. I like O1 because it increases the likelihood of a wick projecting out of the Open end of the candle body, showing me an actual price rather than the made up Open.

Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

Hope this helps.

dwt51

Certainly does help! Thank you for your in-depth explanation.

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  #288 (permalink)
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dwt51 View Post
Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

dwt51

The weirdness is because your reversal size in this example is 1. The reversal size would be better suited with a larger value, larger than the body size for sure.

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  #289 (permalink)
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For UniRenko, "Offset" really serves no purpose other than makes bars look nice and un-weird. A nice, clean, and less confusing way to show the bars is to use Box for chart style. All really one cares about is the breakout.

Here is an example how it would look on my chart.

Cheers!

Attached Thumbnails
UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type-cl-04-14-4-unirenko-t4r20o10-2_18_2014.png  

Last edited by aligator; February 18th, 2014 at 08:29 PM.
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I agree, Offset is all about appearance but I disagree with the box instead of candlesticks. The reversal bars are usually good entries but the wicks and tails (both are white in the picture) offer additional entry points.

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