UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type - NinjaTrader | futures.io
futures.io futures trading


UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type
Started: by monpere Views / Replies:169,147 / 548
Last Reply: Attachments:97

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 97  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type

  #281 (permalink)
Elite Member
Ireland
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Favorite Futures: CL GC FDAX
 
Posts: 118 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 85 given, 48 received


aligator View Post
@kronie,

Not sure If I understand the question as you intended. But here is my understanding of trading Renko type bars:

Unirenko or Renko type bars in general are a kind of volatility bars. Their size determine a volatility range which I think if reached there will be a breakout in that direction. One determines the bar size based on a volatility that matches one's risk comfort. If 20 tick risk is too much risk, then perhaps something smaller, but targets need to be smaller too. Therefore, it does not make sense to wait for so many bars to enter a trade after the breakout has already occurred.

Case in example; CL tends to move in ranges of 10 ticks. So, a UniRenko of the size 10 or 20 makes sense. The entry will be one tick above or below the close of the bar, simple. Otherwise if one waits and enters after so many bars, each additional bar is another 10 ticks. After 3 bars CL has already moved 30 ticks. Do you really want to enter a position there? That is three times the size of the volatility and the swing move is usually exhausted by then.

All said, I find 20 ticks move in CL (size 20) will more often result in a continuation to over 50 ticks than smaller bar size. A 10 tick size is more prone to whipsaw. But, regardless of the size, the best is to enter right after the close of the signal bar. Otherwise, the volatility range basis for selecting the bar size is totally ignored.

CHEERS!

Hi aligator
good point. Can I ask what you are using to determine the "volatility range" on the CL and also for an example of the uni renko bar settings you refer to ie the T, R and O values.
all the best..

Reply With Quote
 
  #282 (permalink)
Elite Member
Toronto
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: AMP FUTURES/ZENFIRE
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Raj1's Avatar
 
Posts: 167 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 252 given, 55 received


aligator View Post
@kronie,

Not sure If I understand the question as you intended. But here is my understanding of trading Renko type bars:

Unirenko or Renko type bars in general are a kind of volatility bars. Their size determine a volatility range which I think if reached there will be a breakout in that direction. One determines the bar size based on a volatility that matches one's risk comfort. If 20 tick risk is too much risk, then perhaps something smaller, but targets need to be smaller too. Therefore, it does not make sense to wait for so many bars to enter a trade after the breakout has already occurred.

Case in example; CL tends to move in ranges of 10 ticks. So, a UniRenko of the size 10 or 20 makes sense. The entry will be one tick above or below the close of the bar, simple. Otherwise if one waits and enters after so many bars, each additional bar is another 10 ticks. After 3 bars CL has already moved 30 ticks. Do you really want to enter a position there? That is three times the size of the volatility and the swing move is usually exhausted by then.

All said, I find 20 ticks move in CL (size 20) will more often result in a continuation to over 50 ticks than smaller bar size. A 10 tick size is more prone to whipsaw. But, regardless of the size, the best is to enter right after the close of the signal bar. Otherwise, the volatility range basis for selecting the bar size is totally ignored.

CHEERS!

@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Raj1 for this post:
 
  #283 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Ninja Trader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: YM, NQ
 
Posts: 12 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 59 given, 3 received



Raj1 View Post
@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

Glad to see some are keeping the thread alive - kinda.

I went through this Thread last week and set up my UniRenko charts. I have the 1/4/1, 2/4/2, and 4/8/4 for Trend.

I practiced using the 1/4/1, but finally gave that one up last night as it moved against me too many times. So this week I'll just trade off the 2/4/2 chart and see how I do.

Raj1, could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means? It's an off-set of 2. So does that mean that a uniRenko bar opens two ticks above a real bar open? Maybe sounds like a picky question, but if one uses close stops then it makes a difference. I can't get my head around the uniRenko Open concept and the reasoning behind it. The T and R are easy to see on the chart.

BTW, I trade the USD/JPY. Beautiful swings - wish I'd be at the computer when they're happening. Last night (my night session) was awesome. monpere has a special spot in heaven for his generosity in "freely" sharing and for helping so many.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Kelsey for this post:
 
  #284 (permalink)
Elite Member
reston, va
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cory's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,102 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 614 given, 6,120 received


Kelsey View Post
..., could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means? ...

O= offset, O2 = 2 ticks offset = plot next bar 2 ticks away from previous bar

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to cory for this post:
 
  #285 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Las Vegas, NV
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,053 given, 5,810 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Futures Edge on FIO

Which products do you trade?

 

Raj1 View Post
@aligator:
In UniRenko bar type , as I understand the volatility range is defined by the parameter 'R' (say, 10 Ticks). Once the bar breakout, meaning after the reversal bar breakout, every additional bar is determined by the parameter 'T' (say, 1 Tick) . So every additional bar after breakout is 1 tick and not 10 ticks as you mentioned above.

@Raj1,

Good point as far as UniRenko bars. However, If the trend setting, T, is set to one ticks then entering three bars after the signal bar, is similar to placing your limit entry at breakout plus 3 ticks.

The point I was trying to make was that one has already established a volatility range (10-20 ticks for CL) based on one's risk tolerance, then the entry should be right after the breakout. Otherwise, the one waits to enter after the breakout the less his potential gain before the next level of the volatility S/R is reached.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to aligator for this post:
 
  #286 (permalink)
Elite Member
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 30 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 216 given, 32 received

What's the "O" parameter?


Kelsey View Post
could you please explain to me what exactly O2 or whatever number means?

To begin with, remember that the "open" of a unirenko bar is fictitious. You can make that open anything you want by changing the O parameter.

@monpere refers to it as the offset, the number of ticks by which the open of a new bar displays inside the body of the previous bar. The minimum setting is 1, so at the least the open must display 1 tick inside the close of the previous bar. You could also think of O as shorthand for overlap (of the previous bar's body by the new bar's body)

Some here like the O1 appearance, while others like the overlap more closely approach the midpoint of its predecessor. I like O1 because it increases the likelihood of a wick projecting out of the Open end of the candle body, showing me an actual price rather than the made up Open.

Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

Hope this helps.

dwt51

Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to dwt51 for this post:
 
  #287 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Ninja Trader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: YM, NQ
 
Posts: 12 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 59 given, 3 received


dwt51 View Post
To begin with, remember that the "open" of a unirenko bar is fictitious. You can make that open anything you want by changing the O parameter.

@monpere refers to it as the offset, the number of ticks by which the open of a new bar displays inside the body of the previous bar. The minimum setting is 1, so at the least the open must display 1 tick inside the close of the previous bar. You could also think of O as shorthand for overlap (of the previous bar's body by the new bar's body)

Some here like the O1 appearance, while others like the overlap more closely approach the midpoint of its predecessor. I like O1 because it increases the likelihood of a wick projecting out of the Open end of the candle body, showing me an actual price rather than the made up Open.

Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

Hope this helps.

dwt51

Certainly does help! Thank you for your in-depth explanation.

Reply With Quote
 
  #288 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cedar Rapids, iowa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader - Continuum
Favorite Futures: 6E, TF, 6J
 
Tasker_182's Avatar
 
Posts: 626 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 424 given, 1,120 received


dwt51 View Post
Note that things can get weird (to me, at least) when the O value is "too high" -- e.g. T1R1O4. In cases like this the reversal candle will print the same color as the last trend candle, and its Close will be inside the body of that last trend rather than beyond it in the trend direction.

dwt51

The weirdness is because your reversal size in this example is 1. The reversal size would be better suited with a larger value, larger than the body size for sure.

"Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." - Woody Allen
Reply With Quote
 
  #289 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Las Vegas, NV
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,053 given, 5,810 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

For UniRenko, "Offset" really serves no purpose other than makes bars look nice and un-weird. A nice, clean, and less confusing way to show the bars is to use Box for chart style. All really one cares about is the breakout.

Here is an example how it would look on my chart.

Cheers!

Attached Thumbnails
UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type-cl-04-14-4-unirenko-t4r20o10-2_18_2014.png  

Last edited by aligator; February 18th, 2014 at 09:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to aligator for this post:
 
  #290 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cedar Rapids, iowa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader - Continuum
Favorite Futures: 6E, TF, 6J
 
Tasker_182's Avatar
 
Posts: 626 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 424 given, 1,120 received


I agree, Offset is all about appearance but I disagree with the box instead of candlesticks. The reversal bars are usually good entries but the wicks and tails (both are white in the picture) offer additional entry points.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

"Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." - Woody Allen
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Tasker_182 for this post:

Reply



futures.io > > > > UniRenko, Universal Renko Bar Type

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

2016 True Edge Awards: Voting is open until Jan 21!

Now
 

Anthony Drager: Pulling the trigger with confidence

Elite only
 

Leo Murphy: The Art and Science of Technical Analysis

Elite only
 

FuturesTrader71: Ask Me Anything

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Better Renko Bar Size (vs. 5 min bar) TrendTraderBH Traders Hideout 5 December 9th, 2016 05:30 AM
Bar Counter For Line Break Bar Type Eagle01 NinjaTrader Programming 8 April 2nd, 2012 12:29 AM
Wicked Renko custom bar type for NT7 aslan NinjaTrader Programming 25 March 10th, 2012 11:13 AM
End of bar strategies with advanced bar types (Renko, Range, Kagi, etc) RM99 Elite EasyLanguage Automated Trading 2 September 9th, 2011 09:38 AM
how to load Median renko and LineBreakwicked type bar kieuthu59 NinjaTrader 8 April 11th, 2011 03:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:16 PM.

no new posts
Page generated 2017-01-22 in 0.18 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.158.169.168