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Release date for NinjaTrader 8
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Release date for NinjaTrader 8

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: IB/IB,Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: CL,YM, TF
 
Posts: 127 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 23 given, 49 received


Traderji View Post
I don't think new NT webinars even mention a date other than "it will definitely be out before end 2014". Not a mistype the guy said 2014.

This whole waiting for the next Ninjatrader version has soured me from the idea of upfront large payment for software. The vendor has zero motivation to innovate or keep your business. They already have your money.

You become a cost centre for them rather than a revenue stream and that's when things like waiting *four* years for the next version with new features or much needed improvements in functionality or methodology. To be fair though Ninjatrader has been extremely slack and lazy, most other companies are not this extreme.

I highly recommend from my personal experience and cost, that traders not already locked in should switch to something like Sierra Charts. SC are outstanding in releasing new versions with new features and improvements. They iterate rapidly and are exceptionally fast at addressing customer requests.

It comes down to the fact that their business model depends on you paying them a monthly fee to use their software. They need to keep their customers happy.

I paid something like US$1300 for lifetime NT in early 2010. It has basically remained static since then. No new brokers or headline features. Third parties like futures.io (formerly BMT) user downloadable mods have provided the innovation if any.

If I had bought a SC monthly subscription in Jan 2010, I would have paid ~US$220 per year. To date I would have paid around US$800 and have received far more in terms of new features, bug fixes, improvements etc. Not to mention $500 better off in the pocket too.


Disclaimer - I have zero commercial or any monetary interest in Sierra Charts or Ninjatrader. I am just a sole trader and this post is my personal opinion and advice to fellow traders.

I know people who lease their NT at a monthly rate--so there is some incentive to improve.

I think they are having huge issues with the 3rd party indicators--many people have paid lots of money for their indicators and they expect them to be working in NT8

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,260 since May 2010
Thanks: 153 given, 1,890 received


Traderji View Post
This whole waiting for the next Ninjatrader version has soured me from the idea of upfront large payment for software. The vendor has zero motivation to innovate or keep your business. They already have your money.

This is an assumption on your part on how I run my business and it couldn’t be further from the truth. I am extremely motivated to innovate and keep your business. Customer happiness generates loyalty, word of mouth advertising and an opportunity to sell you something else in the future. We have been here ten years and plan to be around for decades to come. If I had a “take the money and run” approach, my business would have died a long time ago. We are feverishly working on NinjaTrader 8 (our next generation platform) and have been releasing details in the form of webinars here at futures.io (formerly BMT). I am sure there are features that we don’t have that cause prospects to select a competitive platform but so far, our business is strong and growing and we are on pace to have another record year.

Ray - CEO of NinjaTrader

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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Velocity/IB
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 836 received



Traderji View Post
I don't think new NT webinars even mention a date other than "it will definitely be out before end 2014". Not a mistype the guy said 2014.

This whole waiting for the next Ninjatrader version has soured me from the idea of upfront large payment for software. The vendor has zero motivation to innovate or keep your business. They already have your money.

You become a cost centre for them rather than a revenue stream and that's when things like waiting *four* years for the next version with new features or much needed improvements in functionality or methodology. To be fair though Ninjatrader has been extremely slack and lazy, most other companies are not this extreme.

I highly recommend from my personal experience and cost, that traders not already locked in should switch to something like Sierra Charts. SC are outstanding in releasing new versions with new features and improvements. They iterate rapidly and are exceptionally fast at addressing customer requests.

It comes down to the fact that their business model depends on you paying them a monthly fee to use their software. They need to keep their customers happy.

I paid something like US$1300 for lifetime NT in early 2010. It has basically remained static since then. No new brokers or headline features. Third parties like futures.io (formerly BMT) user downloadable mods have provided the innovation if any.

If I had bought a SC monthly subscription in Jan 2010, I would have paid ~US$220 per year. To date I would have paid around US$800 and have received far more in terms of new features, bug fixes, improvements etc. Not to mention $500 better off in the pocket too.


Disclaimer - I have zero commercial or any monetary interest in Sierra Charts or Ninjatrader. I am just a sole trader and this post is my personal opinion and advice to fellow traders.

Hmmmm. I can remember not too long ago when vendors first rolled out monthly payment plans people were pissed off they would have to keep paying forever. You're pissed that you can still pay up front with NT? Really? The option to pay up front is good for the customer and you are only going to attract new customers if you continue to develop and improve your product, method of payment does nothing to change that.

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
@ Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: FDAX
 
Posts: 441 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 254 given, 369 received


NinjaTrader View Post
This is an assumption on your part on how I run my business and it couldn’t be further from the truth. I am extremely motivated to innovate and keep your business. Customer happiness generates loyalty, word of mouth advertising and an opportunity to sell you something else in the future. We have been here ten years and plan to be around for decades to come. If I had a “take the money and run” approach, my business would have died a long time ago. We are feverishly working on NinjaTrader 8 (our next generation platform) and have been releasing details in the form of webinars here at futures.io (formerly BMT). I am sure there are features that we don’t have that cause prospects to select a competitive platform but so far, our business is strong and growing and we are on pace to have another record year.

Ray - CEO of NinjaTrader

@NinjaTrader: Your update cycle is far too long, that's what the overwhelming majority of your customers think. We can initate a poll here at BM. I have to invest a large amount of time to get the functions i need with custom programming or home grown tools. If i'm asking your support the default answer is "Beyond the scope of support". Lot's of errors i don't even mention to ask the support for.

I hope your next release will be a milestone in trading software history.

Koepisch

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Velocity/IB
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 836 received

And the other thing is that there is a big difference between disliking a product and making a personal attack against someone's character. I think SC is a superior product as well, but Ray is stand up guy and I have seen nothing to suggest he is out to screw people over. The fact that he puts his face on his product, is active on the forums, and personally makes webinar presentations, speaks volumes to the level of concern he has for his product and customers. Consider do you know who the CEO of Sierra Chart is? I don't. Have you ever see the CEO of Sierra Chart personally answer forum posts or give a webinar presentation? I haven't.

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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,260 since May 2010
Thanks: 153 given, 1,890 received


Koepisch View Post
@NinjaTrader: Your update cycle is far too long, that's what the overwhelming majority of your customers think. We can initate a poll here at BM. I have to invest a large amount of time to get the functions i need with custom programming or home grown tools. If i'm asking your support the default answer is "Beyond the scope of support". Lot's of errors i don't even mention to ask the support for.

I hope your next release will be a milestone in trading software history.

Koepisch

Believe me, this is not lost on me. We expect to be more frequent in our updates once NinjaTrader 8 is released.

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Multicharts
Favorite Futures: Spot Forex, Gold, Silver
 
Posts: 176 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 114 given, 114 received


NinjaTrader View Post
....We are feverishly working on NinjaTrader 8 (our next generation platform) .....


I don't think 'feverishly' means what you think it means.

They built a 30 floor building in China in 15 days . Now that is 'feverishly' working on something. What you are doing is more of gentle waddle with frequent and long stops for lunch along the way

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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Multicharts
Favorite Futures: Spot Forex, Gold, Silver
 
Posts: 176 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 114 given, 114 received


vegasfoster View Post
And the other thing is that there is a big difference between disliking a product and making a personal attack against someone's character. I think SC is a superior product as well, but Ray is stand up guy and I have seen nothing to suggest he is out to screw people over. The fact that he puts his face on his product, is active on the forums, and personally makes webinar presentations, speaks volumes to the level of concern he has for his product and customers. Consider do you know who the CEO of Sierra Chart is? I don't. Have you ever see the CEO of Sierra Chart personally answer forum posts or give a webinar presentation? I haven't.


Who said anything attacking any individual?

As paid customer of Ninjatrader (the company) I can't even make a criticism on the lack of any upgrades without being accused of attacking the character of the CEO? What the hell?

I hate this culture of mindless adulation.

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Multicharts
Favorite Futures: Spot Forex, Gold, Silver
 
Posts: 176 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 114 given, 114 received


NinjaTrader View Post
This is an assumption on your part on how I run my business and it couldn’t be further from the truth. I am extremely motivated to innovate and keep your business. Customer happiness generates loyalty, word of mouth advertising and an opportunity to sell you something else in the future. We have been here ten years and plan to be around for decades to come. If I had a “take the money and run” approach, my business would have died a long time ago. We are feverishly working on NinjaTrader 8 (our next generation platform) and have been releasing details in the form of webinars here at futures.io (formerly BMT). I am sure there are features that we don’t have that cause prospects to select a competitive platform but so far, our business is strong and growing and we are on pace to have another record year.

Ray - CEO of NinjaTrader


That's the gist of it Ray. You don't have to 'keep my business' because you have already gotten the revenue from me. Allow me to present an example that really highlights the difference between the business model of your company and the business model of a paid by the month company.

I wanted to switch to LMAX for my forex trading. Ninjatrader does not support LMAX. On 19th Feb 2012 I made a post on your company forums asking for LMAX support. Many other users have posted in the thread asking for the same. It has been one and a half years and still nothing.

Lmax - NinjaTrader Support Forum


Contrast this with how Sierra Charts responded to the same request. At the time SC did not support LMAX. On 27th Nov 2012 someone posted on their forums asking for LMAX support within SC. Within about four and a half months SC had enabled full support for LMAX trading including having negotiated a 50% discount on minimum trading requirements at LMAX for SC users.

http://www.sierrachart.com/supportboard/showthread.php?t=40816

SC needs the users to keep subscribing month after month and therefore they deliver. You on the other hand, couldn't be bothered.

Now this is just small example but it is highly symptomatic of the way Ninjatrader has treated it's users. Like one of the poster above said, he keeps getting "beyond scope of support" and doesn't even bother to ask NT support anymore.

Put yourself in our shoes and ask what would you think? NT took your money years ago and then stopped creating newer and better software. As a customer what would you prefer?

I know you have hundreds of "fans" on this website, who will now come out of the woodwork and accuse me of heinous crimes for having spoken a word against Ninjatrader.

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  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Velocity/IB
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 836 received



Traderji View Post
Who said anything attacking any individual?

As paid customer of Ninjatrader (the company) I can't even make a criticism on the lack of any upgrades without being accused of attacking the character of the CEO? What the hell?

I hate this culture of mindless adulation.

Yeah, I don't know what came over me this morning, you should read some of my previous NT posts.

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