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Ichimoku Kumo breakout strategy ...

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  #1 (permalink)
Overview
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Hi All - as a follow on to the IchimokuHL indicator that futuretrader last worked on, and the recent thread here

I would really like to start backtesting some variants on a Kumo breakout strategy. As far as I understand it, in NT7 if you have a strategy script, you can still open up the condition builder in the script editor, which would be ideal for adding or modifying conditions in an existing script.

On that assumption, what I am looking for is a NT strategy for Kumo breakouts - where the price breaks the cloud high or low and gives a long or short signal respectively. If only it were that easy. Then there is an additional filter that some Ichimoku traders use which is that the breakout trade is taken when the Chikou span has also broken out of the cloud in the same direction as the price. I can use the strategy wizard and condition builder to do simple stuff, but trying to work out which Senkou span to use A or B depending on which is higher at the time, and the fact that the cloud is shifted forwards on price and the Chikou span is shifted back, is way beyond me. Has anyone done something like this or fancies having a go ?

Thanks v much !

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  #3 (permalink)
 redratsal 
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Overview View Post
Hi All - as a follow on to the IchimokuHL indicator that futuretrader last worked on, and the recent thread here

I would really like to start backtesting some variants on a Kumo breakout strategy. As far as I understand it, in NT7 if you have a strategy script, you can still open up the condition builder in the script editor, which would be ideal for adding or modifying conditions in an existing script.

On that assumption, what I am looking for is a NT strategy for Kumo breakouts - where the price breaks the cloud high or low and gives a long or short signal respectively. If only it were that easy. Then there is an additional filter that some Ichimoku traders use which is that the breakout trade is taken when the Chikou span has also broken out of the cloud in the same direction as the price. I can use the strategy wizard and condition builder to do simple stuff, but trying to work out which Senkou span to use A or B depending on which is higher at the time, and the fact that the cloud is shifted forwards on price and the Chikou span is shifted back, is way beyond me. Has anyone done something like this or fancies having a go ?

Thanks v much !

Find attached an example of strategy based on your indications. I had to rename the indy TSIchimoku as there was a discrepancy between the file name and the declaration variable (public class). When backtesting remember to set calculateonbarclose=true otherwise your study will not be reliable. In the strat I did not set any stop or profit it is just an example to show you how to use the srat wizard.


You can find more setups here: Ichimoku Trader - Signals

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Register to download File Type: zip TSIchimoku.zip (6.9 KB, 435 views)
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 g35pil 
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Really interesting strategy, question what type of charts used? minutes, range, volume, momentum, renko?

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 redratsal 
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g35pil View Post
Really interesting strategy, question what type of charts used? minutes, range, volume, momentum, renko?

Ichimoku was created for currencies on daily charts, it works with different instruments and time frames as well, you need to play around. Interesting webinar on the topic #301 & 302

In his book Amazon.com: Trading with Ichimoku Clouds: The Essential Guide to Ichimoku Kinko Hyo Technical Analysis (Wiley Trading) (9780470609934): Manesh Patel: Books Manesh did some backtesting on specific strategies.

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 kronie 
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redratsal View Post
Ichimoku was created for currencies on daily charts, it works with different instruments and time frames as well, you need to play around. Interesting webinar on the topic #301 & 302

In his book Amazon.com: Trading with Ichimoku Clouds: The Essential Guide to Ichimoku Kinko Hyo Technical Analysis (Wiley Trading) (9780470609934): Manesh Patel: Books Manesh did some backtesting on specific strategies.

can you persuade Manesh to post his results and teach us how to back test, and replicate similar results?

now, that would be beneficial, and improve us all

thanks in advance

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  #7 (permalink)
Overview
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@ redratsal
Thanks very much for this. I have loaded up the indicator and strategy. Indicator fine, but I can't seem to make the strategy do anything .... tried EURUSD daily ....

Now for the questions ... !!
As far as I understand it, all of the conditions listed inside the top area of the condition builder have to be satisfied simultaneously i.e. AND ? (sanity check here...) And so if you want to 'OR' different conditions you have to use another one of the 'Set' tabs at the top of the firsr panel ?

What I don't understand (probably because I have missed something), is given the construct of the conditions, how is the fact that the cloud is shifted forward and the CS shifted back handled in the logic - as the Kumo breakout validated by the CS cloud cross sequence AFAIK goes .....
1. Price closes above cloud (but the actual cloud is shifted forward so the price is being compared with the calculation of the cloud from a while back)
2. CS crosses cloud (so the CS which is shifted back, is compared with the cloud which is shifted forwards)
How does the logic of the conditions handle all that stuff ? (or is it automatically taken into account because of the way NT7 works ?)
Should the strategy work as is in the strategy analyzer or do I need to do something else to make it work ?
Apologies for the basic questions, but the logic of this really hurts my head !!!

Thanks !

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 redratsal 
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kronie View Post
can you persuade Manesh to post his results and teach us how to back test, and replicate similar results?

now, that would be beneficial, and improve us all

thanks in advance

That is an exersice for the OP, I think back testing is a practice everybody should go through, at least to have his/her own conclusions about computer outputs vs reality.

I subscribe to your philosophy: "Negotiatio Ergo Sum"

Did you enjoy your Columbus Day?

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 redratsal 
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Overview View Post
@ redratsal
Thanks very much for this. I have loaded up the indicator and strategy. Indicator fine, but I can't seem to make the strategy do anything .... tried EURUSD daily ....

Now for the questions ... !!
As far as I understand it, all of the conditions listed inside the top area of the condition builder have to be satisfied simultaneously i.e. AND ? (sanity check here...) And so if you want to 'OR' different conditions you have to use another one of the 'Set' tabs at the top of the firsr panel ?

What I don't understand (probably because I have missed something), is given the construct of the conditions, how is the fact that the cloud is shifted forward and the CS shifted back handled in the logic - as the Kumo breakout validated by the CS cloud cross sequence AFAIK goes .....
1. Price closes above cloud (but the actual cloud is shifted forward so the price is being compared with the calculation of the cloud from a while back)
2. CS crosses cloud (so the CS which is shifted back, is compared with the cloud which is shifted forwards)
How does the logic of the conditions handle all that stuff ? (or is it automatically taken into account because of the way NT7 works ?)
Should the strategy work as is in the strategy analyzer or do I need to do something else to make it work ?
Apologies for the basic questions, but the logic of this really hurts my head !!!

Thanks !

The logic works with the current bar close and relates it with all the variables, as set in the condition builder, just as you would see it on the chart. If there are no results I assume the conditions were never met. My intent is not to build you the strategy but rather to help you understand how the strategy works so you can build your own. I suggest that you play around with the strat wizard and make your own tests: "Rome wasn't built in a Day". Bear also in mind, as pointed by Kronie, that back testing might be quite different than reality, have a search on futures.io (formerly BMT) on the subject.

PS For Crossing strats you can use the function cross below/above in the condition builder

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  #10 (permalink)
Overview
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@ redratsal
Appreciate the response - I have been playing with the strategy for a while. I had found the crosses over/under settings and was using them. I have done a bit more testing, and to make life a bit easier I tried setting the Chikou span crosses over Senkou A for a buy and then a sell when the price crosses below the Senkou B, and it seems that the timeshifting effect is indeed a problem - if you look at a sell signal generated on a chart, at the point where the sell arrow is placed, the price is still above the cloud as it is displayed on the chart. (but not above the cloud if it had not been shifted to the right). Hmmm.

What I would like to be able to do for example is set the sell signal (for example) at the point where the price actually crosses the Senkou B to the downside as I see it on the chart. Is there a setting in the condition builder that will allow me to do this ?

And the CS crossing over the Senkou A is even more complex ........

(Appreciate the attempt at assisting me getting my programming up to speed but I am 99.999% recurring - sure that it is a lost cause ........... However I used the strategy builder before on simpler things without too many issues, and I think this timeshifting is a real problem I have no idea how to solve - thx for the warning about backtesting vs reality - will check this out)

@all
Would appreciate if anyone can set me straight or help me troubleshoot ....

Thx !!

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 Massive l 
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redratsal View Post
Ichimoku was created for currencies on daily charts, it works with different instruments and time frames as well, you need to play around. Interesting webinar on the topic #301 & 302

In his book Amazon.com: Trading with Ichimoku Clouds: The Essential Guide to Ichimoku Kinko Hyo Technical Analysis (Wiley Trading) (9780470609934): Manesh Patel: Books Manesh did some backtesting on specific strategies.

It was created for daily charts and IMO is the best place for it.
However, some traders trade well with it on smaller time frames because they have great
risk/money management skills.

The indi itself is nothing more than four (HH+LL)/2 averages and an SMA of the close shifted back n periods.
Traders use averages on all time frames.
Lagging indicators are hard to use on time frames less than 60min IMO.

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Overview
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Anyone got any ideas on how to get that NT7 strategy to work how I want it - or can let me know if in fact it already does do a kumo breakout validated by a CS cloud break and I am just not using it correctly ?

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 redratsal 
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I think this is what you are looking for, for convenience I used my Ichimoku indicator which I am more familiar with but the logic is the same:




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  #14 (permalink)
Overview
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@ redratsal
Really strange behavior from this little baby.
Here are the screenshots of my backtest, the Setup1, Setup2, and the resulting chart



Take a look at the sell signal near the end of May. The cloud is green, which means the Senkou A is below the Senkou B, check ? So the sell signal is given on the chart whilst the price bar closes around the sell signal are all higher than the Senkou A, in contradiction to the strategy in the condition builder. Unless I have missed something, what on earth could be going on ?

BTW the strategy in your example seems to be a variation on the Kumo Twist. The one I am really interested in is the Kumo breakout, where the price close crosses the Kumo to the upside, and then (timewise) the Chikou span breaks out above the Kumo to the upside (in the buy example). I have tried putting that strategy into the condition builder and it does not work. I get signals that do not appear where I think they should. I think it is because of the time shifting, but I do not rule out an inconsistency in NT7.

If we can get some more input here that would be great because I don't want to load this all onto redratsal's shoulders, who has given a lot of input already which is much appreciated.

Thanks all

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 redratsal 
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Your Ichimoku and mine are plotting differently (26 periods of difference), I have to check the codes as I beleive the strategy is acting on my indicator while it is plotting on the chart with yours shifted of 26 periods. I will give a look asap.


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Overview
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Can anyone lend us both a hand here ?

Thanks !!!!!

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 gonzofist 
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Overview View Post
Can anyone lend us both a hand here ?

Thanks !!!!!

Not sure if I understood the question....The cloud is supposed to be shifted forward 26 periods, a future kumo should be plotted showing future S/R zones 26 periods ahead of price.

The indicator in the chart shown earlier that plotted the Kumo that extends ahead of price has the correct calculation.


Quoting 
SENKOU SPAN A ("1st leading line") (TENKAN SEN + KIJUN SEN)/2 time-shifted forwards (into the future) 26 periods


Quoting 
SENKOU SPAN B ("2nd leading line") (HIGHEST HIGH + LOWEST LOW)/2 for the past 52 periods time-shifted forwards (into the future) 26 periods

src: https://www.ichimoku.org

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 gonzofist 
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& in respect to your strategy. I believe Patel suggests using the Kumo as your entry and targets generally only on longer term charts ex: 4H or daily. If you want to use Ichimoku on smaller time frames you should have Tenken/Kjum plotted as well as Chikou, the kumo or price breakout (above/below kumo) of the Chikou are arguably the best signals. You should also be using HTF kumo that lines up with your trade.

^I cited this coming from Patel's book but it's highly probably that I heard it somewhere else, there are a lot of different interpretations but the only backup data I have seen has come from his book.

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 kbit 
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gonzofist View Post
& in respect to your strategy. I believe Patel suggests using the Kumo as your entry and targets generally only on longer term charts ex: 4H or daily. If you want to use Ichimoku on smaller time frames you should have Tenken/Kjum plotted as well as Chikou, the kumo or price breakout (above/below kumo) of the Chikou are arguably the best signals. You should also be using HTF kumo that lines up with your trade.

^I cited this coming from Patel's book but it's highly probably that I heard it somewhere else, there are a lot of different interpretations but the only backup data I have seen has come from his book.


Patel is kind of a "strict constructionist" , meaning he alters nothing in regards to time frame or instrument. Mike has him set up to do a webinar here in the near future as well as another guy that should help you guys out (me too). The daily is where Ichimoku really shines and all the "lines" are important, I have actually been sucessfully using it on a 15m chart which would probably make some people cringe. I do monitor daily and 4hr as well though. Oh, and without getting to far off topic the chikou loses a lot if not most of it's significance on the smaller time frames, but the others retain thier significance.

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Overview
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I reckon the indicator is indeed working fine. The Chikou is shifted back, and both Senkou A and B are shifted forwards.

The problem exists with the strategy, not the indicator. If I take the indicator, and try to construct a Kumo breakout strategy within the wizard, I can't get it to work. (BTW I do want this for daily and 4hr charts primarily)

As far as I understand it, a Kumo breakout strategy means (in time sequence):
1) Price breaks cloud (max of Senkou A and Senkou B) to the upside.
2) The Chikou span confirms by also breaking the cloud to the upside. - this of course appears to the left of the actual price, but it (normally?) happens later, ie at a time a few bars after the actual price clears the cloud.

I guess it is not impossible for 2) to happen before 1) ?

And the above is for a break to the cloud to the upside. The reverse is true for a downward cloud break.

To test this I did a simple strategy in the wizard (using an exit based on price crossing the cloud in the other direction), but I could not get it to put the buy and sell signals in the right places. Any chance that one of you good people could have a go and see if you can crack this ?

I think it might need a couple of internal variables one of which is max(Senkou A and Senkou B) and the other which is min (Senkou A and Senkou B) so I can just check whether the cloud has been crossed without having to worry about which Semkou span is higher. And the other bit that has really foxed me is trying to compare a backward shifted Chikou with a cloud that has been shifted forwards. I have absolutely no idea how to do this in the strategy wizard - let alone Ninjascript ....... hope that states the problem clearly !!

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Overview
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gonzofist View Post
& in respect to your strategy. I believe Patel suggests using the Kumo as your entry and targets generally only on longer term charts ex: 4H or daily. If you want to use Ichimoku on smaller time frames you should have Tenken/Kjum plotted as well as Chikou, the kumo or price breakout (above/below kumo) of the Chikou are arguably the best signals. You should also be using HTF kumo that lines up with your trade.

HTF kumo that lines up with my trade ? - @gonzofist - any chance you can explain this ... looks interesting and important

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Overview
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.................. still keen to pursue this one if possible - or maybe someone who has done something similar which has cracked the timeshifting problem might be prepared to share something ?

Thanks !

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 petrmac 
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Hi,

you probably want to compare the Senkou SpanA, B 26 bars back to the current price (i.e. Close[0] for current price, SenkouSpanA[26] for price shifted 26 bars back). You are still using the index 0 for bars back, that is probably the issue.
Additionally, the chikou span is lagging on the other hand, so the chikou span breakout from kumo needs to be verified as the latest chikou span value against the SenkouA, B 26 +26 bars back.

Regards
Petr

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  #24 (permalink)
Overview
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@ petrmac
Thanks v much ! Yes you are right. But how do I make the condition builder do this ?

@NT experts
I have read the help file, but the terms are not well defined and the text is light on properly worked examples, so is not clear to someone who might as well be from Mars as far as programming goes.

I have some basic questions about condition builder.
1. What is 'lookback period' under the crossover condition in the middle of the box, and how should this be used ?
2. What is 'bars ago' in the builder ? How is one supposed to use it ? Does anyone have any examples of these things working ?
3. Why is it when I change the bars ago setting the chart still looks identical (even after steps outlined in 4 below)?
4. Why is it that once I have run the backtest, when I alter the strategy, then I have to close the entire window and open another one and reselect the strategy and then rerun the backtest in order for the chart to look any different ?

@ Big Mike
I remember a thread a while ago from you where you were highly critical of NT, and wonder whether the problems I am facing are because of my inexperience as a programmer or in part due to NT7's inherent 'idiosyncracies' ? If the latter, is it an open secret on this forum that NT7 is still unreliable/FUBAR and you have to work extremely hard to compensate for it ? If so, how does one do this ? If not, does anyone know where I can find some REALLY good and simple step by step video tutorials on how to use the condition builder to build some complicated strategies - well at least something at the level of the Kumo breakout strategy with timeshifting involved - (forget about me writing code - that's never going to happen). And what about the weird behavior needing me to exit the whole window in order for a change in strategy to be reflected in the backtest results window and chart?

The other point that concerns me is the info that backtesting in NT7 yields different results to what happens in practice. Why is this ? and how does one compensate for it ? Should I even think about using NT7 for this ?

Thanks

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 Big Mike 
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Overview View Post
does anyone know where I can find some REALLY good and simple step by step video tutorials on how to use the condition builder to build some complicated strategies - well at least something at the level of the Kumo breakout strategy with timeshifting involved - (forget about me writing code - that's never going to happen).

Your goals are not compatible with each other. You don't want to program, you want to use a wizard, and you want complex strategies. These really don't work well together. You either need to learn to code, accept a simpler strategy the wizard can handle, or you have a third option to hire the work done.

Mike

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Overview
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It seems people here with much more experience than I are writing that the type of Kumo breakout strategy I am looking for, can indeed be written with the strategy wizard. With some decent instructional material (better than the NT7 help files which are probably OK if you already know what you are doing but I find are lacking), then I can probably hack together something that would do the job. I have done reasonably complex work in Excel (formulas, not VBA), and the NT7 wizard does not look insurmountable as long as I have decent and complete instructional materials that explain exactly what each element is and how to use it, with examples etc. Does anybody know of any materials like this ? I have seen this video here: http://ww16.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/helpguide.html?VideoLibrary&sub1=20210412-0410-074d-8ed4-cb3df0de838a - is there anything else out there ?

I am certainly willing to give it a good go. If after that I still cannot get the job done I will definitely get some price quotes for having the thing written.

BTW - is it possible that my NT7 has somehow become corrupted hence the unexpected behavior ? Is there a standard test.fix for this in these circumstances ?

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  #27 (permalink)
Overview
California
 
 
Posts: 40 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 14 given, 3 received

I am giving up on trying to write this strategy myself in NT7, for two primary reasons.

1) I have done some basic testing of the strategy wizard, and have so far found no hard definitions of the terms used in the condition builder. Some of the behavior is unexpected - for example the bars back parameter makes no difference to the script generated when using the crossover operator. Unless otherwise advised by those that know more than I, my conclusion is that the strategy wizard is anything but newbie-proof and you have to doublecheck the script generated. My skillset is up to reading a simple script to see roughly what is going on, and is not currently up to writing script that gets the job done.

2) I have concluded that it is fine and workable for me as a simple charting/alerting package, where the indicators are written by people who really know how to code properly. Because of the previous comments on this forum regarding NT7 in general and its software quality issues, I would personally not trust NT7 to execute an automated trading strategy. I am certainly not skilled enough to be able to compensate for anything NT7 might do that ran counter to expectations.

If anyone wants to have a go at writing and testing the Kumo breakout strategy on NT7, I will be a grateful recipient of the outcome.

Other platforms

I will start a separate thread to ask which other platforms have more robust and reliable wizard/point and click type systems or simpler and higher level scripting so that I can at least test some ideas out like the Kumo breakout and others that I have, and where there is no question of any software reliability issue.

If I am going to learn this stuff, I need to do so on a platform that has no such issues, so that I can concentrate on getting my skills together without being concerned whether the software quality is at fault instead of a mistake on my part.

Similarly if I am going to hire someone to program for me, I will do this for a system which can be used operationally so will do so for a target platform where the software reliability is not and has never been an issue.

Thanks all for the attempted help. I am going to continue on this strat with either a more appropriate way of generating the code that I can get my head around, or hire someone to do the job. I have BTW got a new program - MTP Predictor. At this point I can say that their support is excellent and their regular trading room webinars superb.

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  #28 (permalink)
 Hifive5 
Scottsdale,AZ
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 32 since Oct 2011
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Hi Overview,
I read this thread and i really hate to see it stopped without any success.
I do not have much coding background so i went and used the NT7 wizard to create a strategy for Ichimoku indicator.
Attached are the file used to create the strategy, and they are similar to ichimoku.zip file. I used the ichimoku one just to get the missing cloud colors from the other indicator.
My strtegy does use Patel's four rules.(please check the attached file to learn more about the rules)
To get the startegy to recognize Chiku rule I added 26 to "Bars Ago" and strategy established the Buy/Sell entrances.
The only thing I am still working on are the Exits. I think I missed Patel's suggestion from his last webinar, so I will review it again and make some adjustment to the startegy. If no suggestions were found regarding Exit strategies then I may use Exit when trend reverses. I will read Patel's book to come up with more Exit positions ideas.
From that point up, I really would like more members to get involve so we can get a robust Ichimuko startegy.

Note:
I ran that one using 120 minutes and found out that it works fine but each trade would be stopped on close time. I went and changed the default of "Exit on Close" to False but could not get trade to stay open till next trade.
For lower time span we may need to change
Please review and i hope that will work for you too.

Regards,
HiFive5

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  #29 (permalink)
teckpro
New jersey
 
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

Hi,
checked your script. How do you address the issue mentioned with SenkouSpan forward shifting ?. I see that you are using current index to compare the senkouspan conditions.

if (KijunSen[0] > SenkouSpanA[0] && KijunSen[0] > SenkouSpanB[0] && TenkanSen[0] > SenkouSpanA[0] && TenkanSen[0] > SenkouSpanB[0])

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  #30 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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teckpro View Post
Hi,
checked your script. How do you address the issue mentioned with SenkouSpan forward shifting ?. I see that you are using current index to compare the senkouspan conditions.

if (KijunSen[0] > SenkouSpanA[0] && KijunSen[0] > SenkouSpanB[0] && TenkanSen[0] > SenkouSpanA[0] && TenkanSen[0] > SenkouSpanB[0])

I will let @Hifive5 answer, but I believe each individual indicator's "current index" will be the correctly shifted value. In other words, the indicator is doing the shifting -- not the strategy.

Mike

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  #31 (permalink)
 Hifive5 
Scottsdale,AZ
 
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Big Mike View Post
I will let @ Hifive5 answer, but I believe each individual indicator's "current index" will be the correctly shifted value. In other words, the indicator is doing the shifting -- not the strategy.

Mike

Teckpro;
I second Mike answer, but I would like to remind you that ichimoku Indicators are not moving averages. They uses the H/L of the bars to determine the range of a price action. That being said the calculation for Kumo (future clouds) do rely on current index. If you review all entries of my startegies you will find out that Kumo do follow action and behave the proper way to confirm Long/short entries. But this strategy is a start for us to edit and make it better. My next Ichi startegy is for day trading, and it is little bit different than the long term one. Please check it out and let me know how it works for you guys.

Regards;
HiFive5

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  #32 (permalink)
 Hifive5 
Scottsdale,AZ
 
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Posts: 32 since Oct 2011
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Hi Ichimoku traders,
My previous Ichimuko Strategy was intended to see if NT7 Wizard is capable of meeting all conditions that Patel mentioned in his last webinar and I think it worked fine, but as a “day trader” I wanted a strategy to work for day trading, so I went and created another strategy very similar to the previous one but with some minor tweak to the buy/sell and exit signals.

Strategy was created using NT7 Wizard.
The Strategy should meet 4 main conditions within Ichi Indicators ONLY in order to get into Long/Short trades.


Long Trade should meet the below conditions:
  • Price > Tenkan > Kijun San
  • Tenkan San Crossing above Kijun San
  • Price above clouds (Either way, if clouds going down or up, and OFFSET between cloud and price has to be above 5 ticks)
Price(5)> (SenkouSpanA > SenkouSpanB Or SenkouSpanA < SenkouSpanB)


Since wizard does not have Or condition at same “set” I created two separate “sets” to meet either one of these given conditions (see attached gif files)
  • Chiku span(10) > Price (26 bars ago)(Chiku above price by at least 10 ticks…still not sure which offset would work the best, but for now 10 seems to be working fine)
For” Exit Long” I used two conditions One would be for normal exit and one is force exit:
Normal Exit: Kijun San Crossing above Tenkan San

For” False Long” entries, the below condition seems to be working effectively:
Price <= KijunSan
Or
Price <= SenkouSpanA



Short Trade should meet the below conditions:
  • Price < Tenkan < Kijun San
  • Tenkan San Crossing Below Kijun San
  • Price Below clouds (Either way, if clouds going down or up, and OFFSET between cloud and price has to be above 5 ticks)
Price (5)< (SenkouSpanA > SenkouSpanB Or SenkouSpanA < SenkouSpanB)
Since wizard does not have Or condition at same “set” I created two separate “sets” to meet either one of these given conditions (see attached gif files)
  • Chiku Span(10)< Price (26 bars ago)(Chiku above price by at least 10 ticks…still not sure which offset would work the best, but for now 10 seems to be working fine)
For” Exit Short” I used two conditions one would be Normal exit and one force exit:
Normal exit: Kijun San Crossing Below Tenkan San

For” False Long” entries, the below condition seems to be working effectively:
Price >= KijunSan
Or
Price >= SenkouSpanA


Additional Indicators:
- A vertical lines (Red=Short and Green=Long) when all conditions meets.
- An “arc” line that would start from Chiku Span to the current index (To help traders to visually see if chikuSan is above/Below the price(26), in case Manual trading)
- Visual indicator to change bar color to Yellow when all Ichimoku Indicators meet conditions for Buy or Sell signal.

Additional help needed:
- Add Stop exit two tics above/below Kijun Span ( It may be high ticks for stop for some traders)
- If possible to enter trade using Bid/Ask instead market price.
- To start strategy around Eastern time for open/close market (To keep it as optional as some people may use the strategy open 24 hours)
- To fix attached zip file in order to see on chart the future Kumo clouds (If possible, if not that is fine)

Note: This Strategy Compatible with NT7 only. I found it to work great using 3M and 5M especially with YM/FDAX /CL and 6E
I do not trust NT “back testing” therefore my daily screen caps will be from Daily SIMs.
If happen to have an open trade near market close hour I will manually exit the trade, no matter what.(Trying to imitate live trade as much as possible)
Big Mike: If you think I rather start my own thread, please let me know and I will do so. Basically, my whole point here is to start a basic strategy that we all could fetch in and add/edit it to make it as robust as possible, for Ichimoku could work great on Minute frames.
Regards;
HiFive5

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  #33 (permalink)
teckpro
New jersey
 
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

Hifive5 and Big mike, thanks for the answering my question.I am also working on modifying the Ichimoku indicator to make it work on day trading on smaller time frames. Hifive5 ,I will try to understand your day trading strategy.

The approach I am taking is to modify the Ichimoku indicator and use a strategy to test with NT backtesting. So basically I am entering/exiting trades in the strategy based on the signals generated from the modified indicator.

In the indicator, I am using a 2 step approach where you get a warning for long/short entry and then a confirmation.
.
Warning is generated when TenkaSen cross above/below KjunSen.
I am still trying to perfect the confirmation condition using SenkouSpanA,SenkouSpanB and ChikouSpan.
Thats where I was trying to figure out the shifted Cloud versus the current price conditiion for confirmation.

Based on Ichimoku documentation, the shifted cloud represents the support/resistance range and also cloud color tells if sentiment is bullish/bearish.Also the cloud density can be used to determine how strong the support/resistance will be , when the price is inside the cloud.

I want to use the current cloud density(i.e point where the current price bar is) to decide my confirmation since what I see from my study of the chart is that it is better to use the density of the current cloud to decide the entry than using the shifted cloud, reason being the price action seems to honor the support/resistance of current cloud rather than the forward shifted cloud.

I am a novice with this indicator and would like you guys to comment.

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  #34 (permalink)
teckpro
New jersey
 
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

Hifive5 and Big mike, thanks for the answering my question.I am also working on modifying the Ichimoku indicator to make it work on day trading on smaller time frames. Hifive5 ,I will try to understand your day trading strategy.

The approach I am taking is to modify the Ichimoku indicator and use a strategy to test with NT backtesting. So basically I am entering/exiting trades in the strategy based on the signals generated from the modified indicator.

In the indicator, I am using a 2 step approach where you get a warning for long/short entry and then a confirmation.
.
Warning is generated when TenkaSen cross above/below KjunSen.
I am still trying to perfect the confirmation condition using SenkouSpanA,SenkouSpanB and ChikouSpan.
Thats where I was trying to figure out the shifted Cloud versus the current price conditiion for confirmation.

Based on Ichimoku documentation, the shifted cloud represents the support/resistance range and also cloud color tells if sentiment is bullish/bearish.Also the cloud density can be used to determine how strong the support/resistance will be , when the price is inside the cloud.

I want to use the cloud density to decide my confirmation since what I see from my study of the chart is that it is better to use the density of the current cloud to decide the entry than using the shifted cloud, reason being the price action seems to honor the support/resistance of current cloud rather than the forward shifted cloud.

I am a novice with this indicator and would like you guys to comment.

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  #35 (permalink)
 Hifive5 
Scottsdale,AZ
 
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Hi there,
Attached are three charts from today's market events for FDAX/YM and 6E.
As far YM and FDAX....No entries at all during open market buy YM seems to find a sell trade around 19:00, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, my focus will be on market real time 9:30-16:30.
6E had one false ebtry which ended with -6 ticks

Will keep them coming and I will add CL starting tomorrow.

Note: Ichimoku daily trading is little bit challanging and the strategy I put together needs tons of adjustment, but I can not do all by myself. I would like more members to fitch in their knowledge and see what we can get out of it.

Regards;
Hifive5

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  #36 (permalink)
Vlad Savinsky
Wexford
 
 
Posts: 4 since Oct 2012
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Overview View Post
I am giving up on trying to write this strategy myself in NT7, for two primary reasons.

1) I have done some basic testing of the strategy wizard, and have so far found no hard definitions of the terms used in the condition builder. Some of the behavior is unexpected - for example the bars back parameter makes no difference to the script generated when using the crossover operator. Unless otherwise advised by those that know more than I, my conclusion is that the strategy wizard is anything but newbie-proof and you have to doublecheck the script generated. My skillset is up to reading a simple script to see roughly what is going on, and is not currently up to writing script that gets the job done.

2) I have concluded that it is fine and workable for me as a simple charting/alerting package, where the indicators are written by people who really know how to code properly. Because of the previous comments on this forum regarding NT7 in general and its software quality issues, I would personally not trust NT7 to execute an automated trading strategy. I am certainly not skilled enough to be able to compensate for anything NT7 might do that ran counter to expectations.

If anyone wants to have a go at writing and testing the Kumo breakout strategy on NT7, I will be a grateful recipient of the outcome.

Other platforms

I will start a separate thread to ask which other platforms have more robust and reliable wizard/point and click type systems or simpler and higher level scripting so that I can at least test some ideas out like the Kumo breakout and others that I have, and where there is no question of any software reliability issue.

If I am going to learn this stuff, I need to do so on a platform that has no such issues, so that I can concentrate on getting my skills together without being concerned whether the software quality is at fault instead of a mistake on my part.

Similarly if I am going to hire someone to program for me, I will do this for a system which can be used operationally so will do so for a target platform where the software reliability is not and has never been an issue.

Thanks all for the attempted help. I am going to continue on this strat with either a more appropriate way of generating the code that I can get my head around, or hire someone to do the job. I have BTW got a new program - MTP Predictor. At this point I can say that their support is excellent and their regular trading room webinars superb.

Hi Overview,
I have the same problem with NT7, I aslo very much like the Kumo beakout.
I actually had the opportunity to backtest it on another platform - TraderPro from UpData(UK). Unfortunately I am finishing subscription with them because it is very expencive and I had the same problem butling with their wizard as you had with NT7 and currently I have with NT7 Condition builder. But there is non existent customer support for this TraderPro.
I actually managed to backtest simple Kumo break above or below and got good statistical results. I also noticed that sometimes the close gets under the KUmo for 3-8 days and recovers uptrend. So the stategy looses 10-15% on uptrend if it meets the condition to buy again. It is sometimes better not to sell but whait for 3-5 days and close returns within Kumo and above the Kumo. I actively traded this conditin and have not been kicked out of the trend. I have tryed as you did from the customer servce to get the anser how to create the condition when close only triggers sell if the close gets uder Kumo and stays there for 3 or 5 days. It is also true for buy trigeer.
Close crosses over Kumo and stays ther for 3 days( from my personal observations of different stocks on day frame)- that the reliable trigger because the could be false entance above the Kumo and that eats into prifits and decreses overal perfroamce of the strategy.
I know the Confirmation can be from Chikou break above or below the KUmo. It is still not as statistically relaible as some other criteria =as Close acheives new time high.
Please let me know if you managed to find any either new Platform or some programers who can can help with the script. I f you are intersted in grafs and pictures I had from TraderPro I can share it.

This is also for every-one including HiFive5 - it seems he knows a bit better then us how to harnes the Condition builder
Thank you Yours Vladimir

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  #37 (permalink)
 coolfutures 
Toronto
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Mirus/Zen Fire
Trading: ES,Currency futures
 
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Posts: 12 since May 2010
Thanks: 68 given, 5 received

Hello Hifive5,
I think if entry and exit of ichi signals can be coditioned with ADX rising and falling alongwith Diplus and Diminus rising and falling for day trading on a smaller time frame . What do you think ?
Thanks

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  #38 (permalink)
Vlad Savinsky
Wexford
 
 
Posts: 4 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 6 received

Hi redratsal.
I have tried to post reply just after your post in a thread but was not permitted (by the rules of this forum) to do so so this is the only way to contact you
I have been trading ichimoku for more then a year but on different platform Trader pro from UpData. It has fair good wizard to do conditions of entry and exit based on ichimoku. And I have done quite an extensive backtesting on this platform. This is expensive service but has almost non existent customer service. in particular I was straggling to find the way to trigger buy and sell as per close Kumo break up or down but with delay for 3 days - to buy; and 5-8 days to sell.( it came from hint and latter from extensive observations of daily stocks charts from Euronext and LSE). I have tested your strategy on NT7 it has good entries and exits and overall is good BUT the NT7 does not really do what the set of condones are!!!. That is a big problem I think because it is not reliable back testing - entries exits are not always according what the conditions are. Do you, by any chance, tried to figure out why it is happening? I have tried even simple strategy: Close cross above the Senkou span B to buy and Close cross below Senckou Span B to sell - just to see if the system performs what it suppose to do.- still it does not do what it suppose to do. Any Idea why? I have red the thread of Overview - poor guy gave up to do anything with NT7.
I would very much appreciate your ideas.
I run the same your strategy conditions but on different Platform- as you can see the TraderPro does do the entries and exits as per strategy conditions.

I have pictures of Charts entry exits from NT7 and TraderPro to be uploaded. But rules of the forum said that I have only 3 credits but need 5 to upload the pictures !!!???

So any member input would be appreciated- how to make the wizard to do the entries and exits on the charts according to conditions set in wizard.

yours Vlad

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  #39 (permalink)
 ticnau 
Buderim Queensland Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja
Broker: AMP/Zenfire
Trading: 6E, 6B, YM
 
Posts: 89 since Jul 2009
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Hello Hifive5

I downloaded the strategy thanks a million do you have it just as an indicator as well?



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  #40 (permalink)
rDc01
Miami, FL. USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jun 2014
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Hi ALL.

On MQ4 you can obtain the SENKOUSPAN A and B 26 days ahead of the price doing this:

SENKOUSPANA_Future = iIchimoku(NULL, PERIOD_M30, 9, 26, 52, MODE_SENKOUSPANA, -26) SENKOUSPANB_Future = iIchimoku(NULL, PERIOD_M30, 9, 26, 52, MODE_SENKOUSPANB, -26)

Is any way to do the same on NT??

Thanks in advance,

rDc

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  #41 (permalink)
 parsamkk 
new york
 
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Any update on this strategy ? Is anyone using it ?

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