i also use cci extensively, much of which learned from woodie's free chat room which is now no longer in existence. (so you also know tonyuk, susan, nick and nicker et al....?)
the free chat room has been transformed into a fee paid room requiring about 200 usd per month to join to watch his woodiesbar in action.
and now that the fraud about woodiesbar has been discovered and exposed conclusively.... and most extensively by a frank_?.... it is a darn shame.... to have such a good intended beginning--traders helping traders.... and to culminate in such an ashamed concluding chapter....
all the good traders behind the scene and the moderators must be mightily disappointed in the shocking discovery.
yes i know them...this bar is NOT the first shocking discovery. that group goes through the same shocking discovery over and over again. the community redefines itself after each occurrence and keeps on going just like the eveready bunny (if you remember the battery commercial) or like the old Timex commercial, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
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Well, this isn’t going to be “news” to anyone who has been studying/trading for any length of time, but by tweaking the parameters of most any indicator you will get the same signals/results.
Many vendors take commonly used indicators, change colors and parameters or change a line to a histogram or a histogram to a line and call it proprietary. This isn’t the case with ALL indicators, but in most cases it is.
What makes it “proprietary” is how they use it, and we pay for their knowledge and time for sharing it with us.
It’s not my intention to criticize or condone these actions of any vendor, but it is just a fact and it happens all the time.
I am not currently a member/participant in Woodies room, so the only time I've seen how he uses his new setup(s) is in a free webinar he did a couple of months ago.
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i won't want to contest your premises but i do think they are incorrectly assumed and stated to the point of being overly general to include permissible fraudulent practices such as the case being cited by frank, who must have spent many hours before being able to take apart and put back together to show what frauds being perpetrated by w in his $200 (?) a month chatroom....
PLUS about $300 (?) a month for leasing that fraudulent setup to trade....
which runs up the whole total to about $500 per month on false pretense....
most persons around him perhaps are not aware of frank's expose on his fraud, i would guess many would just cite personal reasons and leave.... just like several moderators before them, who just departed with uncertain terms....
now, brevco, would you still consider such deceitful practices...
to defraud close friends, personal assistants--almost all do not have credentials nor certifications to act as trading signal generators, biz associates such as pfg brokerage house et al and in particular his very own fee paying members who trust him and follow him...., even though after a month or two in the fee paid room, most members are still not yet able to duplicate what the moderators were claiming to attain--breakeven plus 1, target 1, target 2.... ;
as acceptable and tolerable and excusable in trading industry....?
well, really, personally, it does not make one iota difference to me at all, but i just still have some traders-friends there who are devoided of any of w's frauds.... perhaps, this is a good opportunity for them to become independent traders like many others before them....
brevco, what do you think?.... did he fully disclose....? (and again this is none of my biz neither! sorry, w)
Last edited by nakachalet; September 10th, 2011 at 04:32 PM.
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I have been around the trading arena for somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 years. It took me about 5 years before I started seeing the similarities with different indicators (okay, okay, I am "slow" to catch on sometimes). I have also purchased several and made comparisons, and it wasn't until after I did this a few times that I realized what was happening.
No, I don't think deceitful practices are acceptable at all, but I decided to be cautious about buying indicators after that, and since I have no control to change what is being done, I let it go. My goal is to make money trading and if I find deceitful activity with a vendor, I can chose to avoid that vendor and perhaps share my findings with other unsuspecting traders and let them make their own decision. I can't control what they do or the decisions they make (and don't want to).
I am pretty good at research, and I accidentally ran across Woodies Bars on the internet. I downloaded them, set them up on my chart, and compared them to what I was using at the time (Better Renko). I was shocked to find the same signals. I have/had a friend who is a moderator for Woodies chat room. I told him about this and he was interested to see what I found so I sent him the screenshot and asked for his feedback. I have not heard back and this has been several weeks ago. Since I have not received a response from my "friend" I have no doubt Woodie knows about this by now. This moderator is loyal to Woodie, I'm sure.
I contacted PFG concerning another matter and happened to mention that I found Woodie's bars on the Internet and they were no different than what I was already using. I was told at that time I was not supposed to have them for free and was supposed to lease them for $199 per month (the $199 was just for Woodie bars and did not include the cost of the chat room for $99 per month ---- almost $300 per month total). So, yes, PFG has been aware of this for at least a month. The link where I found the Woodie bars has since been disabled.
There is more money to be made in selling webinars/seminars and indicators than actual trading. I used to plan/arrange corporate meetings. If a typical 2-day seminar costs about $1,000, with 25 attendees, that is $25,000. Let's say the average cost per attendee runs about $100 per person (if they include one or two meals), after covering costs, (meeting room, equipment rental, etc.), the vendor will make at LEAST $22,500, sometimes more. This does not include what they might make selling their indicators, books, DVD's, etc.. If they do two seminars a month, that's $45,000!! How many seminars would a vendor have to do to make a decent living? If they are a good instructor and offer ongoing support after the seminar, to me, it is worth the cost, and $1,000 is cheap compared to a lot of trading seminars.
I have heard it said many times that if someone cannot trade, they will teach. I personally know someone who was/is a local business radio personality who promoted trading seminars and taught at some of them. He charged $500 per person. When I asked him how long he had been trading, he admitted to me that he could NOT trade, but he could "teach" it. Do you think I shelled out my hard earned $500? All I can say is, at least he was honest!
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I know who is your friend, and this friend has reasons to be loyal to w. Now that the scam has been discovered and is public, thanks to Frank, why don't you share the fraudulent and exposed "Median Renko Bares" file for public to see.
Last edited by aligator; September 11th, 2011 at 01:59 PM.
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