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Best Renko Bar? - better vs median vs sbs vs wicked


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Best Renko Bar? - better vs median vs sbs vs wicked

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  #101 (permalink)
 TradeWind 
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mea109 View Post
Just edit in notepad bars .cs files located in /Documents/NinjaTrader7/bin/Custom/Type

Thanks mate.

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  #102 (permalink)
 mea109 
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Hi RJay

I managed to make it work ...with luck.

First I add to install 3 more types to make BetterRenko appear (new 3 bartypes would not be up yet)

Then I add to close/relaunch NT a few (quite a few) times to make the other appear on the list at their own turn at different intervals ?!

Funny stuff....

Just like you can select 3 minutes period by typing 3M on the chart. Is there a way to assign a shortcut to custom bar types ? Like by typing 6MR it would switch chart to 6 MedianRenko.

Thank you

edit: please disregard screenshot

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  #103 (permalink)
 kronie 
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kronie View Post
so wat really is Wicked Renko?

how does that compare with Range_No_Gap, or Better_Renko?



anyone answer these questions?

hoping for some direction here, perhaps even a download link or two


thanks in advance

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  #104 (permalink)
 mea109 
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Fat Tails View Post
. @ roonius was involved with MedianRenko and SBSRenko, and only recommends SBSRenko as per now.

... But I had problems with SBSRenko, as it is not compatible with all NinjaScript methods.

For example all my multi-timeframe indicators, which need to take into account the NinjaTrader sessions to close the higher timeframe bars, do not run on SBS Renko, but they do run on the NinjaTrader default Renko and on Better Renko bars (and on all other NinjaTrader default types).

I'm quite a fan of MedianRenko. Since SbSRenko is supposedly derived from MedianRenko, are you aware of the same MTF troubles for the ancestor one ?

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  #105 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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TheWizard View Post
That's true with the MedianRenko bars. The creator never worked out the bug that caused them to be unequal. Not that they don't give good signals, IMO, it's just "cosmetic". The reason I liked them (and especially the RenkoHybrid) is because they smooth out all the "noise" on the price panel and the sub-indicator panels. They just make it easier for me to read and understand.

Rjays RenkoHybrid bars ARE all the same size (body-wise, not counting tails). The thing about RenkoHybrid is: say you have your chart set to 4 tick RenkoHybrid. The bar will have to travel 8 ticks before it exhausts it's "range" so that a new bar is created. The new bar will be created at the "median" or middle of the prior bar & then continue its journey up & down for 8 ticks total traveling distance, before another new 4 tick bar is begun. The bodies of the bars, however, willall be a uniform 4 ticks in size. Hope that explains, somewhat. I've attached a screenshot of Rjays RenkoHybrid.

Keep in mind: ALL the bar types tell the same story. It just depends on which "language" (bar type) you're most comfortable reading. I began with minute bars and struggled trying to read them. I don't like the idea of "compressing" data (price-action) into a human-created concept (time) and then trying to "decipher" it's secret message, so to speak. The plainer, the better. And Renko type bars (all of them) smooth out the "noise", as I said earlier. Pull up a 5 minute chart & put all you indicators that you use on it, then pull up a 2nd chart of MedianRenko, BetterRenko, SBSRenko, etc. & see what I mean.

The new bar will be created at the "median" or middle of the prior bar & then continue its journey up & down for 8 ticks total traveling distance, before another new 4 tick bar is begun.

the very fact that the new bar is created at the middle of the previous bar.... and not at a new bar wherever at the top or bottom of the previous bar for the particular price continuation.... indicates certain theoretical constrains or bias already, does it not?.... just a question from a non-programmer.

Rjays RenkoHybrid bars ARE all the same size (body-wise, not counting tails).

in addition, tail is part of a price range, if discounted in any shape or form would surely statistically skew and affect the subsequent price structure whenever adaptation takes place, does it or doesn't it so, pls?

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  #106 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
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I think you missed my point.
The issue is ONE of the NEW bar types conflicts with one of the bar types you ALREADY have installed.
You will need to look at ALL of the custom bar types to find the conflict. (i.e. PointO, Momentum, etc)




mea109 View Post
Thanks for your help.

I just checked and each are different already :
- NoGapRange = Custom2
- MedianRenko = Custom0
- Better = Custom4

Can it come from somewhere else ?!


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  #107 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
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I use Microsoft Visual Studio but you can use notepad.
(just be sure to have 'word wrap' disabled)


TradeWind View Post
Hi David,
How do we access the NT bar types script to rectify this issue may I ask?
Thank you.
TW


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  #108 (permalink)
 mea109 
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DavidHP View Post
I think you missed my point.
The issue is ONE of the NEW bar types conflicts with one of the bar types you ALREADY have installed.
You will need to look at ALL of the custom bar types to find the conflict. (i.e. PointO, Momentum, etc)

When I exchanged views with you, I had only those 3 custom bar types installed (I installed PointO, Momemtum, etc later in the day)

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  #109 (permalink)
 compound 
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After much reading here and other related threads, it appears the concensus is that the following 3 Renko types are favored:

*** Better Renko ( with or without Better Brick style)

*** RenkoHybrid

*** LogikRenko

Has anyone specifically compared/contrasted these three types?

Any comments or opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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  #110 (permalink)
 cory 
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there is hope for plain renko fan
Monthly_recap_Spitfire_9.30.11 - theTradingAuthority's library

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  #111 (permalink)
 rpm123 
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if only i could get a big mo and little mo too!

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  #112 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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rpm123 View Post
if only i could get a big mo and little mo too!

I don't remember their setting but they were mention in one of the free video, there is no magic in those numbers, the magic is in how consistency of you using them. I always end up with 21 and 5 for some reason.

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  #113 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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in reference to the above,

am just wondering out loud:

how much confidence would those who trade for a living put their money on any trading system that claims about 35% winning and 65% losing percentage wise?....

even though the proprietor(s) would claim profitability for those subscribing to the system?

would you who trade for a living use such 35W and 65L trading system at all?....

not saying what the promotor(s) are claiming has any validity or reliability or not, OK?

come to think of it, tossing indian head experiment in stats 101 for 5 hrs continuously, yielded about 53 to 47 head to tail frequency.... which as randomization goes, seems to provide better odds than the trading system being put on market for novice traders to subscribe to....?

my humble unsolicitated suggestion is.... perhaps, it is much better to stick around big mike forum at the moment.... you won't have to pay anything at all.... and if you wish to join, it is only $50....!

very inexpensive by any standard

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  #114 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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here are some indicators combo, taken today just before noon, on CL, that have been profitable, perhaps could be equally or even more profitable than what have been offered for sale by many promotors practically everywhere....

just wondering out loud, iffy and whenever this set of indicators become practically nonproductive or practically breaking even, or practically whatever....

even then, would think twice before offering it as enticement to those nonsuspecting wannabe profitable traders....

would you do it, sirs/madams, honorable traders; to make a few thousand bucks for bucks sake....?

or perhaps, since the indicators combo were an almost sure fire profitable setups, if and when any would be offered, the promotor/proprietor would GUARANTEE money wise, money back guarantee for any unprofitable months for those learning how to trade profitably--subscribers....

now, that is a revolutionary idea in promoting any INDICATOR product for sale, don't you agree?

THAT is just a personal opinion not intended to antagonize nor infuriate any or all, and there are many many of you who have many legitimate products and activities offered to help traders toward becoming profitable consistently on their own. and may i humbly salute you all.


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  #115 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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nakachalet View Post
here are some indicators combo, taken today just before noon, on CL, that have been profitable, perhaps could be equally or even more profitable than what have been offered for sale by many promotors practically everywhere....

just wondering out loud, iffy and whenever this set of indicators become practically nonproductive or practically breaking even, or practically whatever....

even then, would think twice before offering it as enticement to those nonsuspecting wannabe profitable traders....

would you do it, sirs/madams, honorable traders; to make a few thousand bucks for bucks sake....?

or perhaps, since the indicators combo were an almost sure fire profitable setups, if and when any would be offered, the promotor/proprietor would GUARANTEE money wise, money back guarantee for any unprofitable months for those learning how to trade profitably--subscribers....

now, that is a revolutionary idea in promoting any INDICATOR product for sale, don't you agree?

THAT is just a personal opinion not intended to antagonize nor infuriate any or all, and there are many many of you who have many legitimate products and activities offered to help traders toward becoming profitable consistently on their own. and may i humbly salute you all.


just for those doubting thomases, another setup on gc taken before 1400 o'clock today.

and tf taken around 1410 o'clock.

submitted for your pleasure and enjoyment and wishing everyone continued success, happy and profitable trading the rest of today's session or whatever is left. enjoy and bye.

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  #116 (permalink)
 2010 
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Hi, would anybody happen to have the download for the CCI colored background for NT7.07. Thanks you guys are very helpful.

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  #117 (permalink)
 tellytub 
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nakachalet View Post
just for those doubting thomases, another setup on gc taken before 1400 o'clock today.

and tf taken around 1410 o'clock.

submitted for your pleasure and enjoyment and wishing everyone continued success, happy and profitable trading the rest of today's session or whatever is left. enjoy and bye.

Nice signals nakachalet, where can we find the indicator, is this something of yours? Thanks

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  #118 (permalink)
 SARdynamite 
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RJay View Post
RenkoHybrid Bars should be used with even numbers as well.

Are all renko bars to be used with even numbers ? (even the default Ninja one ?)
When set to odd numbers, are they displaying wrong information ?
Or does it only concern a few types of custom Renko bars ?

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  #119 (permalink)
 Rougno 
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?


SARdynamite View Post
Are all renko bars to be used with even numbers ? (even the default Ninja one ?)
When set to odd numbers, are they displaying wrong information ?
Or does it only concern a few types of custom Renko bars ?


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  #120 (permalink)
 andrewtrader 
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nakachalet View Post
in reference to the above,

would you who trade for a living use such 35W and 65L trading system at all?....

show me trend following system (ruleset) that has more than 40% wining percentage (I mean, seriously). That's about average. Because this simply reflect the fact, that markets are trending about 40% of the time. This way money is made on those big long winners that cover many small loosers. The only thing you can do is to filter out some false positives and calculate high probability entries.

In spitfire renko case mentioned - you cannot trade that way, simply because your stops will get busted with regular renko. Unless you use calculated exits and not hard stops on exchange side. Regular renko gives incredible profitability to almost any strategy, but covers highs and lows that make difference. While such trending systems still can be profitable I think they are becoming more or less obsolete in Today's sketchy markets and requires more sophisticated logic and analysis.

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  #121 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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andrewtrader View Post
show me trend following system (ruleset) that has more than 40% wining percentage (I mean, seriously). That's about average. Because this simply reflect the fact, that markets are trending about 40% of the time. This way money is made on those big long winners that cover many small loosers. The only thing you can do is to filter out some false positives and calculate high probability entries.

In spitfire renko case mentioned - you cannot trade that way, simply because your stops will get busted with regular renko. Unless you use calculated exits and not hard stops on exchange side. Regular renko gives incredible profitability to almost any strategy, but covers highs and lows that make difference. While such trending systems still can be profitable I think they are becoming more or less obsolete in Today's sketchy markets and requires more sophisticated logic and analysis.

i believe what you stated is generally accurate for those occasionally profitable traders. however, for those groups of traders who are leaning toward almost always profitable, their trading setups and strategies are, i believe, quite different from general traders or wannabe.

for one, most of these groups would only trade their own setups and strategies, specifically, when their setups show up, they are not hesitant to pull the triggers each and every time. the rationale behind their seemingly unrationale behavior is, if and when that trade is going into faulty mode, they would not hesitate to get out, giving away only 2 or 3 or even 4 tics for each lot.

however, if the trade does go their way which is most often true, most likely in the neighborhood of 60%+, most would tender their first lot just as soon as the volume diminishes, but still hold on to the rest of the 2nd or 3rd lot which will be methodologically and sequentially liquidated at different stages meeting the criteria of their own money management setup.

andrewtrader, personally now, i would not even consider looking at any of my own experimental modules that generates anything less than 60% profitability, percentage wise. probability speaking, 50-50 is considered randomization as in the case of tossing a head/tail coin and anything less such as 40% you mentioned, is absolutely not acceptable for those trading for a living, speaking from personal knowledge and limited experiences, of course.

my rationale is, great amount of time has been expanded, experimented with and tested out in sim and real time, before any one setup can be concluded as profitable. and by then, whatever setup it is, it will be much better than 50-50 for sure; again, personally speaking with limited experiences.

am sure others if and when they can spare a few moment, they would have their own success stories to tell as well. however, believe me, most would just rather roam among their own familiarities than talking or expounding with others. the present companies on the forum are a rare exception, they give their time, their discoveries and results of their sweat and toil to practically everyone who wants it.

my utmost esteem, respect and adulation to everyone giving selflessly and unselfishly to help other traders.... may you live long and happy and filled and overwhelmed with every humanly comfort.




2011-10 not a holygrail - nakachalet's library

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  #122 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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nakachalet View Post
i believe what you stated is generally accurate for those occasionally profitable traders. however, for those groups of traders who are leaning toward almost always profitable, their trading setups and strategies are, i believe, quite different from general traders or wannabe.

for one, most of these groups would only trade their own setups and strategies, specifically, when their setups show up, they are not hesitant to pull the triggers each and every time. the rationale behind their seemingly unrationale behavior is, if and when that trade is going into faulty mode, they would not hesitate to get out, giving away only 2 or 3 or even 4 tics for each lot.

however, if the trade does go their way which is most often true, most likely in the neighborhood of 60%+, most would tender their first lot just as soon as the volume diminishes, but still hold on to the rest of the 2nd or 3rd lot which will be methodologically and sequentially liquidated at different stages meeting the criteria of their own money management setup.

andrewtrader, personally now, i would not even consider looking at any of my own experimental modules that generates anything less than 60% profitability, percentage wise. probability speaking, 50-50 is considered randomization as in the case of tossing a head/tail coin and anything less such as 40% you mentioned, is absolutely not acceptable for those trading for a living, speaking from personal knowledge and limited experiences, of course.

my rationale is, great amount of time has been expanded, experimented with and tested out in sim and real time, before any one setup can be concluded as profitable. and by then, whatever setup it is, it will be much better than 50-50 for sure; again, personally speaking with limited experiences.

am sure others if and when they can spare a few moment, they would have their own success stories to tell as well. however, believe me, most would just rather roam among their own familiarities than talking or expounding with others. the present companies on the forum are a rare exception, they give their time, their discoveries and results of their sweat and toil to practically everyone who wants it.

my utmost esteem, respect and adulation to everyone giving selflessly and unselfishly to help other traders.... may you live long and happy and filled and overwhelmed with every humanly comfort.




2011-10 not a holygrail - nakachalet's library

thx to big mike recommendation on using jing

2011-10 not a holygrail 002 - nakachalet's library

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  #123 (permalink)
 aslan 
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woodie View Post
Yes i talked to roonius and told him as well as Big Mike that i would give him reconigtion. which i did for my only public presentation. it was ok'd by him...yes cci was develop by Don Lambert and i never said it was not In fact Don spoke at many of my seminars and gave me all his work he done on CCI...however the way the CCI was traded was totally different then the lambert way..i also added the turbo 6 cci which many people renamed different names including some on this board. there are posts here that are copies of my work and renamed but i never said a word even tho some are copyrighted infringments. i think mike has done a great job here and no reason for petty things. i have always given credit to others work as much as i want credit for my work...there are some who are jealous at what we do and no matter what i do they will try to knock us down...including one who spread all over the internet that we did this etc and all because i threw him out of the room, it turned out he bilked many traders for more than 21 million dollars and is in fed prison for the next 26 years. for 11 years my room was free for all until we found 3 people selling my cci system by changing the name of the patterns...hell my free cci document which is free on my web site was sold on ebay for $25 dollars...i could on and on..best of trading to you all

woodie

Nice job throwing Dennis under the bus when he can not defend himself. He did some bad things and is now paying the price, but I know he had a lot of info that showed you are not who you say you are. Anyone that believes this guy is above board will eventually realize they are wasting their time.

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  #124 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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aslan View Post
Nice job throwing Dennis under the bus when he can not defend himself. He did some bad things and is now paying the price, but I know he had a lot of info that showed you are not who you say you are. Anyone that believes this guy is above board will eventually realize they are wasting their time.

just wondering if we are speaking of the same entity....?

are you referring to the one and only pitiful old man who refuses to trade live--even on one contract in his own trading room that charges 99 usd fees, plus an additional 200 usd for using his or should i say--MR. A's TRULY'S CHART; if any student wishes to have the chart on own screen....?

and to further advise our family members who might unbeknowningly venture into his sphere of radiation, may i pls post some info from one of his former fees paid student....?

are we talking about the same entity here, you think? Not that it materially matters for me nor you.

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 aslan 
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nakachalet View Post

aslan View Post
Nice job throwing Dennis under the bus when he can not defend himself. He did some bad things and is now paying the price, but I know he had a lot of info that showed you are not who you say you are. Anyone that believes this guy is above board will eventually realize they are wasting their time.

just wondering if we are speaking of the same entity....?

are you referring to the one and only pitiful old man who refuses to trade live--even on one contract in his own trading room that charges 99 usd fees, plus an additional 200 usd for using his or should i say--MR. A's TRULY'S CHART; if any student wishes to have the chart on own screen....?

and to further advise our family members who might unbeknowningly venture into his sphere of radiation, may i pls post some info from one of his former fees paid student....?

are we talking about the same entity here, you think? Not that it materially matters for me nor you.

I think not, I was pointing out that Woodie is not who he claims to be. Dennis Bolze was very active trying to expose him, and it is rather ironic that he is the one in jail. I am sure Woodie is very happy that one of his biggest critics is not around anymore.

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  #126 (permalink)
 Rad4633 
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aslan View Post
I think not, I was pointing out that Woodie is not who he claims to be. Dennis Bolze was very active trying to expose him, and it is rather ironic that he is the one in jail. I am sure Woodie is very happy that one of his biggest critics is not around anymore.

Hi Aslan,

I was wondering your thoughts on the best way to detect a reversal using the better renko?maybe another oscillator etc? BC as you know if you wait on the reversal bar to show using a 4 or 5 betterrenko you lose alot of your profits. Thoughts?

Thx In Advance
Richard

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  #127 (permalink)
 rainbowchaser 
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Hi Cory and guys, that link is no longer available. Does someone has a copy that may be posted ?
Regards.

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  #128 (permalink)
 rainbowchaser 
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2010 View Post
Hi, would anybody happen to have the download for the CCI colored background for NT7.07. Thanks you guys are very helpful.

Maybe this is what you are looking for. futures.io (formerly BMT) elite section Downloads.

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  #129 (permalink)
 cory 
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Hi Cory and guys, that link is no longer available. Does someone has a copy that may be posted ?
Regards.

try this Daily_recap_YM9.13.11 - t2university's library

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  #130 (permalink)
 rainbowchaser 
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Thanks Cory. what is a MADA practioner?

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  #131 (permalink)
 cory 
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rainbowchaser View Post
Thanks Cory. what is a MADA practioner?

it's Monitor Analyze Decision Action

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 magnumdbl 
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cory View Post
just this, he wrote a project betterko close indi for the next up bar and down bar but they are hard to see so I bold them a bit.

Do you know how betterrenko compares to the Logibars Mean Renko sold by Indicator Warehouse?

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 cory 
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magnumdbl View Post
Do you know how betterrenko compares to the Logibars Mean Renko sold by Indicator Warehouse?

no comparison yet but I think i prefer 'traditional' look

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 billr 
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cory View Post
no comparison yet but I think i prefer 'traditional' look

I too prefer the traditional look, however, the most important thing is to make sure you use settings that allow NT to recognize those "true open" values (again, in backtesting).

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 ashotas 
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Hi,

attached is the template file. Is it just that what you are looking for or do you need the whole bunch of indicators?

Let me know if it works out for you



Would you be kind enough to prove a list of indicators you use in your template.
Thank you in advance.

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 patbateman 
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I installed BetterRenko... it seems like Renko based strategies do not work whatsoever in backtesting, however work correctly (generally profitable) in live conditions. Is this to be expected?

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 rpm123 
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patbateman View Post
I installed BetterRenko... it seems like Renko based strategies do not work whatsoever in backtesting, however work correctly (generally profitable) in live conditions. Is this to be expected?

Renko - no - because they are not showing all the price action
Better Renko - perhaps - at least you are getting the tails that show price occurrences

Generally profitable live trading - lot more to it than the bars

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 patbateman 
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rpm123 View Post
Renko - no - because they are not showing all the price action
Better Renko - perhaps - at least you are getting the tails that show price occurrences

Generally profitable live trading - lot more to it than the bars


Okay

Just to clarify, when I said Renko based strategies, I meant backtesting systems designed for Renko. So in other words, a strategy on regular NT& Renko will backtest fine, a strategy on BetterRenko won't backtest correctly with BetterRenko - but it will trade live correctly with BetterRenko. Is there a known issue with backtesting BetterRenko or not (something I'm doing strange)?

Apologies for being a newbie on the Renko charts here in the elite circle...

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  #139 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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patbateman View Post
Okay

Just to clarify, when I said Renko based strategies, I meant backtesting systems designed for Renko. So in other words, a strategy on regular NT& Renko will backtest fine, a strategy on BetterRenko won't backtest correctly with BetterRenko - but it will trade live correctly with BetterRenko. Is there a known issue with backtesting BetterRenko or not (something I'm doing strange)?

Apologies for being a newbie on the Renko charts here in the elite circle...

Whenever you use NT's backtesting, Optimizing, etc, NT is not using TICK data which means it is guessing if a fill will occur and what value. It uses only the OCHL data for the historic bar for any of these appraoches. I have seen people say that if you use all Limit Orders, then it works better, still not clear how close that is to reality as it still doesn't know if enough TICKS occurred around the Limit price. I think it is a closer approaximation, but you really need to do Replay or Live Sim trading to be sure.

If you don't care about specific values the Limit order on a BetterRenko chart (your anticipated trade is many times, 10x+, the renko bar size) might give you an indication of performance but not a guarantee.

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  #140 (permalink)
 patbateman 
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NJAMC View Post
Whenever you use NT's backtesting, Optimizing, etc, NT is not using TICK data which means it is guessing if a fill will occur and what value. It uses only the OCHL data for the historic bar for any of these appraoches. I have seen people say that if you use all Limit Orders, then it works better, still not clear how close that is to reality as it still doesn't know if enough TICKS occurred around the Limit price. I think it is a closer approaximation, but you really need to do Replay or Live Sim trading to be sure.

If you don't care about specific values the Limit order on a BetterRenko chart (your anticipated trade is many times, 10x+, the renko bar size) might give you an indication of performance but not a guarantee.

Wow, sounds like NT strat analyzer is garbage. I bought NT last November when I opened a new broker account (in the wake of the Corzine explosion) and haven't used it extensively until around 10 weeks ago. For retail platforms, I've grown to really like it allot, despite the numerous bugs.

Ninja does save historical tick data, perhaps more accurately called semi-tick data. I'm surprised it does not back test on any kind of tick data. It does explain well though why Ninja won't backtest BetterRenko.

I have about 3 weeks worth of market replay data - not exactly a ton.

Thanks for putting up with my noobishness ya'll.

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  #141 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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patbateman View Post
Wow, sounds like NT strat analyzer is garbage. I bought NT last November when I opened a new broker account (in the wake of the Corzine explosion) and haven't used it extensively until around 10 weeks ago. For retail platforms, I've grown to really like it allot, despite the numerous bugs.

Ninja does save historical tick data, perhaps more accurately called semi-tick data. I'm surprised it does not back test on any kind of tick data. It does explain well though why Ninja won't backtest BetterRenko.

I have about 3 weeks worth of market replay data - not exactly a ton.

Thanks for putting up with my noobishness ya'll.

No problem, had the same questions about 1 year ago, answers still fresh in my mind. Loved the Renko charts for too long!

You can download more market replay data (depending upon instrument) from NinjaTrader. There is a script somewhere on futures.io (formerly BMT) which automates the individual day downloads.

NT only save the BAR data, Open Close High Low and Volume. My understanding is they ware working on improving this in the new version. Product would be more useful with that addition. I like it for what it is, I have lots of gripes about it, but I manage to get around those issues.

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  #142 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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NT's default Renko will not backtest correctly, because the Open of the bar is false. I believe Better Renko has solved that problem, but you can talk to other NT users to confirm that.

Mike

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 Big Mike 
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It is possible to create a secondary dataseries for execution. For example, create a 1-range bar for execution, and another dataseries for signal generation. But this method is for advanced programmers.

Mike

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 patbateman 
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NJAMC View Post
No problem, had the same questions about 1 year ago, answers still fresh in my mind. Loved the Renko charts for too long!

You can download more market replay data (depending upon instrument) from NinjaTrader. There is a script somewhere on futures.io (formerly BMT) which automates the individual day downloads.

NT only save the BAR data, Open Close High Low and Volume. My understanding is they ware working on improving this in the new version. Product would be more useful with that addition. I like it for what it is, I have lots of gripes about it, but I manage to get around those issues.

Nice idea on the script... I bet NT loves the loads on their servers . I've always wondered how reliable their MRP data really is. Seems like a better idea to save it with one's broker feed. Have you used their data okay? It'd be nice if Ninja would just convert saved historical data into MRP... no more "data" from those coders at NT.

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 NJAMC 
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patbateman View Post
Nice idea on the script... I bet NT loves the loads on their servers . I've always wondered how reliable their MRP data really is. Seems like a better idea to save it with one's broker feed. Have you used their data okay? It'd be nice if Ninja would just convert saved historical data into MRP... no more "data" from those coders at NT.

I think the data is okay for what I need, may not be perfect but could be! I know when I tried recording it myself, I would always end up with gaps in the data due to Broker glitch or me need to reboot or testing something.

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 patbateman 
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NJAMC View Post
I think the data is okay for what I need, may not be perfect but could be! I know when I tried recording it myself, I would always end up with gaps in the data due to Broker glitch or me need to reboot or testing something.

For Ninjatrader, I run a copy of it in a Chicago datacenter ('in the cloud') for maximum reliability and security with my live trades. I also record historical tick data and MRP data. I can export, compress and download both datasets to my desktop and work on the retail dataminig while everything runs live just fine. Executions are also quicker in the cloud, especially from Hawaii or some place. But just for how often Ninja crashes when 'working' it, it's worth it .

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 billr 
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I share your enthusiasm for Renko charts, but had to say goodbye to them after constantly finding new ways they could 'trick' NT (and other platforms). Here are the issues that eventually led me to reluctantly set renko aside and trade other types of charts:

1. The apparent clarity of price action. The initial allure of Renko for me was the incredible clarity of price action compared to other charts (especially time charts). Unfortunately, the same problems that occur in backtesting, can trick you as to how well Renkos really do clarify things in live trading. When you load a chart using tradestation, esignal, or ninja (not sure about multi charts), the chart is built in a way that artificially smoothes the price action that makes it very appealing to pursue automated trading. The problem is that the same chart built on live data will loose much of its clarity. e.g. many more periods of multiple reversal bars in a row. (range bars have similar calculation problems with NT). Not entirely a deal killer, but it is one of several things to keep in mind before committing too strongly to Renko.

2. Backtesting Hell. What Mike and others have described is exactly right. NT and TS assume that the open of any given bar is the same as the close of the previous bar. Obviously this can be false in any chart type given the right circumstances, but in Renko it is ALWAYS false for reversal bars. The effect of this error in logic built into NT backtesting will guarantee not just false results, but falsely positive results. Also as stated before, the price movement outside the renko bars is eliminated by NT. This is a less serious problem than the open=close, but one you have to plan for. It is particularly dangerous in that it will let trades hit profit targets without triggering stops that would have been hit in live trading. **Both of these problems are probably solved by some of the third party renkos. I used one from purelogik that solved this.

That said, I suspect Renko could be uniquely effective trading live. If I were to pursue renko with automated trading, I would try to make sure I trade on a scale (time frame) that would keep the strategy triggers operating outside most of the noise levels. After all, filtering is what Renko charts are designed to do.

I would also like to mention that I was convinced the logic of renko charts was exactly what suited my idea of trading and I got pretty discouraged with platforms (and therefore trading) when I discovered the problems with Renko. That frustration cost me way too much time and emotional setback. I encourage you to continue to experiment with renko using market replay and enhanced third party renkos, but to keep an open mind about using other charts to accomplish whatever trading style you want to pursue and try to avoid the frustration I went through. I think you will find that the chart type won't matter much once you start 'seeing' the market in a way that makes sense to you.

If you are new to trading, you might also be focused on high percentage entries. As is discussed much here in Big Mike's, risk and trade management are critical in a trading strategy. I mention that because I think my hyper-focused Renko pursuit tended to keep me from seeing that sooner. Again, I don't want to discourage your ambitions to trade by piling on with the Renko warnings.

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 aslan 
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I have seen some of the recent posts about backtesting with Renko. This was the reason BetterRenko was created, as the focus of the bar is to have the good parts of generic Renko (visual & noise reduction), but still show accurate bar data for backtesting. Most other forms of Renko all fail back testing because they do not expose the real data to the back test engine, so the back test engine can only use what it has. By real data, I mean the actual bar open, and the wick data. Dealing with gaps/zero volume bars is also an issue (I think Ninja no longer correctly handles zero volume bars). I no longer use NT regularily (I do still write some code for others), so I am not sure what Ninja may have "fixed" recently if it is no longer working. Other platforms have similar issues when trying to deal with these bar types, so it is not a Ninja only issue. I have no intention of debugging the Ninja engine, but if there is a specific issue with BetterRenko due to something that has changed in Ninja since they were released, let me know and I will take a look if I have time.

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 NJAMC 
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aslan View Post
I have seen some of the recent posts about backtesting with Renko. This was the reason BetterRenko was created, as the focus of the bar is to have the good parts of generic Renko (visual & noise reduction), but still show accurate bar data for backtesting. Most other forms of Renko all fail back testing because they do not expose the real data to the back test engine, so the back test engine can only use what it has. By real data, I mean the actual bar open, and the wick data. Dealing with gaps/zero volume bars is also an issue (I think Ninja no longer correctly handles zero volume bars). I no longer use NT regularily (I do still write some code for others), so I am not sure what Ninja may have "fixed" recently if it is no longer working. Other platforms have similar issues when trying to deal with these bar types, so it is not a Ninja only issue. I have no intention of debugging the Ninja engine, but if there is a specific issue with BetterRenko due to something that has changed in Ninja since they were released, let me know and I will take a look if I have time.

Hi @aslan,

Thanks for your contribution with BetterRenko. In my opinion, your Renko bar type works fine. I think the main discussion is to help people understand that the NT Renko (Stock Type) doesn't really reflect price action and has been a trap for many strategy programmers (as well as probably a few discretionary traders). Thanks for your offer, we will keep an eye out as NT is updated to see if they break the BetterRenko type.

I know there are issues around 0 vol bars of any type, but it is best to avoid those situations if you can (ignore any VOL=0,make the bar a bit bigger and/or avoid the low volume time frame is what I have done in the past)

Thanks again!

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  #150 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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@aslan,

In the download section on futures.io (formerly BMT), JamTheTrader uploaded a new strategy type where instead of Bar Open, Ninja will use Bar Close for its open order entry price.

I was intrigued by this. Do you think it is this simple in order to get accurate Renko backtest results?

Mike

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 TimeTrade 
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Big Mike View Post
@aslan,

In the download section on futures.io (formerly BMT), JamTheTrader uploaded a new strategy type where instead of Bar Open, Ninja will use Bar Close for its open order entry price.

I was intrigued by this. Do you think it is this simple in order to get accurate Renko backtest results?

Mike

Hi @BigMike
The RenkoFillType published by Jam with FillOnClose work normaly only with RePlay- or Live-Data!
And then its work only correct, if the based RenkoBarType use a single Add function call for create the "virtual" RenkoOpen with set the close to the correct price...
Many renko bar types do this with two steps "Add(Open,ZeroVolume)" "Update(Close,Volume)" or poor with RemoveBar on Open... with this bar type can the RenkoFillType by JAM not correctly work !

I think its give only one correct way for IDENTICAL & COMPERABLE results with backtest,reload,replay and live data:
Using a syncronized additional 1TickDataSeries in the strategy and use this 1TickSeries for all orders with a delay of !2! Ticks, then the NinjaTrader7 can correct handle all BarTypes with a little "time slippage" and a realistic open with full possibile intrabar fills will by work correctly.

I need only a little bit more time for complete my comperable and published t4tCum??? tickbased working indicators... then i give a sample for using this internal 1tick concept for with any bar types working and backtestable strategies with using the LOM by NJAMC for the correct fills

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  #152 (permalink)
 patbateman 
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I've seen some occasional comments on how Renko bars must be an even number - also every Renko chart screen shot I've seen (so far) has been an even number.

Does Renko, or BetterRenko, work better if it's even?

Apologizes for the very basic question... like I mentioned in my last post here, very new (relatively) to Renko!

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 NJAMC 
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patbateman View Post
I've seen some occasional comments on how Renko bars must be an even number - also every Renko chart screen shot I've seen (so far) has been an even number.

Does Renko, or BetterRenko, work better if it's even?

Apologizes for the very basic question... like I mentioned in my last post here, very new (relatively) to Renko!

I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Renko style charts. I don't think it is an issue, I think the Median Renko likes certain even/odd type of bar length due to the calculation, but uncertain. I think the best person that can answer this question would be @aslan. Hopefully he can shed some light on the answer.

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  #154 (permalink)
 billr 
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patbateman View Post
I've seen some occasional comments on how Renko bars must be an even number - also every Renko chart screen shot I've seen (so far) has been an even number.

Does Renko, or BetterRenko, work better if it's even?

Apologizes for the very basic question... like I mentioned in my last post here, very new (relatively) to Renko!

There is no reason for Renko to work better or worse with odd or even numbers. There is nothing special about renko other than the fact that it is completley independent of time. Just like Range bars.

Something to consider when setting the bar size is how granular you want to look at the market. If you want the Renko to filter much of the noise, then set the bars accordingly. e.g. if the instrument you are trading has a typical range of movement for a given period, you might want to set the bars large enough so that the constant, small random price fluctuation (noise) doesn't trigger a bunch of sideways renko reversal bars and make the chart useless.

Also, consider the fact that the market changes often enough that any bar setting you select may work better at some times than others. A 5 Renko may be 'perfect' for a morning session, but you may find that a 3 or 8 renko setting may have worked better for the afternoon. If you find a size that seems to get the charts to look the way you want it, then start working on how you want to trade. Don't become a slave to the idea that a perfect chart is your starting point. No chart or setting is perfect. A common mistake made by many new traders and one that I certainly made, was the over-optimization of charts and indicators. There are probably many discussions here about optimization and curve fitting of strategies that would be helpful. The good news is that as you play around with different chart settings, you begin to see the nature of how the market moves (and perhaps more importantly, how you can rely on the fact that it won't move the same way all the time) begin to get ideas on how you might like to trade. For many people, I think Renko is a great way to learn how the market can move.

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 billr 
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I just noticed a post by @NJAMC and had not considered a special calculation for some of the third party renko calculations. I would be surprised that any of the more popular renko types would have a built in bias of this sort. If in fact they use an elaborate method to calcuate something, then I suppose there could be an issue with rounding or irrational numbers perhaps.

If that were the case, personally I would avoid using any chart or indicator that had a functionality bias affected by user defined settings.

If it worries you, just stick with even numbers. It won't matter to your trading and may even help you by reducing the number of backtests you are tempted to try

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  #156 (permalink)
 steve2222 
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patbateman View Post
I've seen some occasional comments on how Renko bars must be an even number - also every Renko chart screen shot I've seen (so far) has been an even number.

Does Renko, or BetterRenko, work better if it's even?

Apologizes for the very basic question... like I mentioned in my last post here, very new (relatively) to Renko!

I use BetterRenko with 5 ticks and I have no problems - works perfectly.

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  #157 (permalink)
 aslan 
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patbateman View Post
Does Renko, or BetterRenko, work better if it's even?

Nope makes no difference.

The reason you may have seen that, is some of the other Renko types out there have their internal calculations based on the average of two prices, so when they divide by 2, they get some nasty rounding issues when trying to build bars. So, to get around that they have to be even numbers so the total size of the brick is an even number.

Generally, using even numbers works fine, but depending what you are trying to do an odd number can be nice. For example, for CL a 5 tick box is nice because it lines the boxes up on .05 increments, which can be handy.

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  #158 (permalink)
 aslan 
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Big Mike View Post
@aslan,

In the download section on futures.io (formerly BMT), JamTheTrader uploaded a new strategy type where instead of Bar Open, Ninja will use Bar Close for its open order entry price.

I was intrigued by this. Do you think it is this simple in order to get accurate Renko backtest results?

Mike

Not sure, as I have not recently looked at what the Ninja engine is doing. If you are entering on the next bar at open, it really depends what that first tick is. Is it a gap to the high of the next bar? Then the high would be better. Does it gap multiple boxes (zero volume bars), then it should not fill until you have volume. Another nasty case, is a reversal bar. The next true open is way away from the open shown, and the close is likely even worse.

NT can not handle zero volume bars anymore (used to), and the current BR may have issues because it does use zero volume bars.

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  #159 (permalink)
 billr 
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aslan View Post
Not sure, as I have not recently looked at what the Ninja engine is doing. If you are entering on the next bar at open, it really depends what that first tick is. Is it a gap to the high of the next bar? Then the high would be better. Does it gap multiple boxes (zero volume bars), then it should not fill until you have volume. Another nasty case, is a reversal bar. The next true open is way away from the open shown, and the close is likely even worse.

NT can not handle zero volume bars anymore (used to), and the current BR may have issues because it does use zero volume bars.

There are several NT issues working against backtesting Renko with NT. Unfortunately, using the open of the bar does not solve the problem. This is because the unique nature of renko: the open and close occur simultaneously. You don't know where the open is until it is closed due to the possibility of a reversal. So if you tried to set a trade at the open of the next bar, it would be at a historic price level one renko bar distance from the close (this is true even if it is NOT a reversal bar). So it wouldn't work because the backtest would probably assume you could enter at the open price level when the price has actually moved to at least a renko bar distance away before you get the signal. (the time machine effect) It looks back. In essence a variation of what it does by assuming close[1]=open[0]. It gets even trickier when a reversal is followed by another reversal. In backtesting, the correct calculation should be close[0] with a renko type that provides this.

Another major problem with NT is the fact that it smoothes the charts when building a renko chart with historic data (my guess is using computing efficiency short cuts). *this also happens with range charts to a lesser degree.

These two problems are the major issues as far as I am concerned. As you mention, the zero volume (gaps) fill-in of bars is a challenge. But that can be mitigated to a large extent by manually checking for the obvious times for those conditions to occur and eliminating those trades. Or, you could trade active market hours only.
For most of the strategies and instruments I have tested, this is not the most critical issue.

Finally, NT drops the price movement that occurs while bars are forming. For the most part, this affects stops the most. NT may allow price action to pass over a stop and hit a profit target, again giving false positive results. Most renko bars that solve the close=open problem also solve the lost price action (wicks) too.

Hope this helps

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  #160 (permalink)
 2010 
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Why is median renko not discussed any more, I noticed that the wicks are much shorter on median renko than the wicked renko and sbs renko bars.

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  #161 (permalink)
 TimeTrade 
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2010 View Post
Why is median renko not discussed any more, I noticed that the wicks are much shorter on median renko than the wicked renko and sbs renko bars.

median renkos looks nice, only make 3 big mistakes:
- use a virtual, never traded open price with zero volume
- use a NO-GAP loop for create vitual never traded candles with zero volume
- use different volume logics for history and live mode

=> unuseable for realistic backtests and for any volume and/or tradebased analyse
=> for visual live charts without its look good, only many other indicators give wrong/crazy results

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  #162 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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TimeTrade View Post
median renkos looks nice, only make 3 big mistakes:
- use a virtual, never traded open price with zero volume
- use a NO-GAP loop for create vitual never traded candles with zero volume
- use different volume logics for history and live mode

=> unuseable for realistic backtests and for any volume and/or tradebased analyse
=> for visual live charts without its look good, only many other indicators give wrong/crazy results

Yes, even the author quickly said not to use MedianRenko anymore, and tried to delete all the copies on the forum and replace them with his next version called SbsRenko (as memory serves).

Then @aslan introduced Wicked Renko, which was then later replaced with the superior Better Renko. I think everyone should just use Better Renko or traditional renko, and forget about all these other types because they think they have special powers since they are harder to find or less talked about...

Mike

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  #163 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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Big Mike View Post
Yes, even the author quickly said not to use MedianRenko anymore, and tried to delete all the copies on the forum and replace them with his next version called SbsRenko (as memory serves).

Then @ aslan introduced Wicked Renko, which was then later replaced with the superior Better Renko. I think everyone should just use Better Renko or traditional renko, and forget about all these other types because they think they have special powers since they are harder to find or less talked about...

Mike

Seems like someone should put together a new Renko WIKI!

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  #164 (permalink)
 TimeTrade 
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Big Mike View Post
Yes, even the author quickly said not to use MedianRenko anymore, and tried to delete all the copies on the forum and replace them with his next version called SbsRenko (as memory serves).

Then @aslan introduced Wicked Renko, which was then later replaced with the superior Better Renko. I think everyone should just use Better Renko or traditional renko, and forget about all these other types because they think they have special powers since they are harder to find or less talked about...

Mike

Sorry, the SBS renko code use equal zero volumes and a no gap loop for create virtual never traded bars...


 
Code
    if (bars.Instrument.MasterInstrument.Compare(close, mymax + rangeValue) >= 0)
    {
        UpdateBar(bars, open, mymax + rangeValue, low, mymax + rangeValue, time, 0);
        bool isLastNewBar = close < mymax + 2 * rangeValue;
        double newBarOpen = mymax + rangeValue;
        double newClose = Math.Min(bar.Close + rangeValue, close);
        do
        {
            AddBar(bars, newBarOpen, newClose, newBarOpen, newClose, time, isLastNewBar ? volume : 0);
            newBarOpen = newClose;
            newClose = Math.Min(newClose + rangeValue, close);
            isLastNewBar = close == newClose;
        }
        while (bars.Instrument.MasterInstrument.Compare(close, newClose) > 0);
    }
    else
        if (bars.Instrument.MasterInstrument.Compare(mymin - rangeValue, close) >= 0)
        {
            UpdateBar(bars, open, high, mymin - rangeValue, mymin - rangeValue, time, 0);
            double newClose = Math.Max(bar.Close - rangeValue, close);
            double newBarOpen = mymin - rangeValue;
            bool isLastNewBar = close > mymin - 2 * rangeValue;
            do
            {
                AddBar(bars, newBarOpen, newBarOpen, newClose, newClose, time, isLastNewBar ? volume : 0);
                newBarOpen = newClose;
                newClose = Math.Max(newClose - rangeValue, close);
                isLastNewBar = close == newClose;
            }
            while (bars.Instrument.MasterInstrument.Compare(newClose, close) > 0);
        }

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  #165 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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TimeTrade View Post
Sorry, the SBS renko code use equal zero volumes and a no gap loop for create virtual never traded bars...

Which is why I said to use Better Renko.

Mike

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  #166 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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NJAMC View Post
Seems like someone should put together a new Renko WIKI!

Please do!



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  #167 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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Big Mike View Post
Please do!



Mike

We need to find a Victim, I mean volunteer. I am out straight right now, but this issue keeps coming up in many different ways.

I can help someone structure it as the WIKIs are not straight forward without going through your tutorials. If someone is interested, let me know. Good history to capture for future reference.

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  #168 (permalink)
 2010 
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Where can I download the Better Renko indicator? Thank you everyone for your input.

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  #169 (permalink)
 marker 
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2010 View Post
Where can I download the Better Renko indicator? Thank you everyone for your input.

elite access:


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  #170 (permalink)
 aslan 
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There seems to be a perception that zero volume bars or gap filling is a bad thing. Personally, I think they are just fine as they contribute to the visual aspect of the Renko chart. If you were to put other indicators on a Renko chart, filling the gap can be good or bad depending what kind of behavior you want. Filling the gap can be good because it allows an indicator to normalize faster (i.e. an avg) or by the same token bad because it lets it normalize faster (i.e. want to maintain distance for longer period of time). Depends what you are trying to get out of it.

Of course you need to deal with that from a backtesting perspective, and unfortunately it appears Ninja no longer deals with zero volume bars.

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  #171 (permalink)
 aslan 
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For those interested, Sierra Charts now supports native Renko bars instead of using a study. The performance improvement is huge. They are generated using tick based data, and all volume/bid/ask/delta studies are perfectly accurate with Renko bars. They are also adding new support in next rev for keeping track of the true open/close for each bar, and a new Renko Brick draw style. It does use zero volume bars for filling.

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  #172 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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aslan View Post
There seems to be a perception that zero volume bars or gap filling is a bad thing. Personally, I think they are just fine as they contribute to the visual aspect of the Renko chart. If you were to put other indicators on a Renko chart, filling the gap can be good or bad depending what kind of behavior you want. Filling the gap can be good because it allows an indicator to normalize faster (i.e. an avg) or by the same token bad because it lets it normalize faster (i.e. want to maintain distance for longer period of time). Depends what you are trying to get out of it.

Of course you need to deal with that from a backtesting perspective, and unfortunately it appears Ninja no longer deals with zero volume bars.

Hi @aslan,

I agree, zero volume bars make perfect sense at times. As you have stated is you can crash NT7 with Strategies atleast if you trade against a 0 volume bar. You need to filter for this at the start of the OnBarUpdate function. I have requested they better handle this in their next release, we will see if that makes it in....

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 2010 
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A lot of people talk about 0 volume bars and incorrect data, is all this refering to back testing renko bars or live? Aslan I use wicked renko and notice the body of the bar is 10 ticks on a 10 tick chart, on median renko the body on a 10 tick chart is 15 ticks, not counting the wicks. I just want to use a renko bar for live trading, I do not care about what happened yesterday.

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  #174 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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Not to keep kicking this subject to death, but one thing that just came to mind is impact upon indicators.

If you have a SMA(10), and a Renko chart is ranging in a small band and then jumps in price filling 9 bars with 0 volume to get to the new price level of maybe one contract, you SMA will likely be the average of the starting bar and ending bar price. Although this is an accurate calculation, since 9 bars had no volume, including them in the MA almost seems incorrect! It seems like a more appropriate SMA(10) value would be about 1/10th of the distance down from the range toward the new single bar.

Just something to think about when dealing with Indicators blindly (both discretionary and automatic trading). I think the true solution is to not trade during these very low volume times, increase the bar size or realization that a SMA move off hours doesn't mean the same thing as during high volume trading hours.

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 aligator 
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NJAMC View Post
Not to keep kicking this subject to death

..dead and cremated for at least 2 years

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  #176 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
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aligator View Post
..dead and cremated for at least 2 years

That explains the Ash on my feet...

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  #177 (permalink)
 billr 
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NJAMC View Post
Not to keep kicking this subject to death, but one thing that just came to mind is impact upon indicators.

If you have a SMA(10), and a Renko chart is ranging in a small band and then jumps in price filling 9 bars with 0 volume to get to the new price level of maybe one contract, you SMA will likely be the average of the starting bar and ending bar price. Although this is an accurate calculation, since 9 bars had no volume, including them in the MA almost seems incorrect! It seems like a more appropriate SMA(10) value would be about 1/10th of the distance down from the range toward the new single bar.

Just something to think about when dealing with Indicators blindly (both discretionary and automatic trading). I think the true solution is to not trade during these very low volume times, increase the bar size or realization that a SMA move off hours doesn't mean the same thing as during high volume trading hours.


You're certainly right about that. The flip side to the gap up you describe with no volume would be during a fast move with volume. In this case, the renko would segment the move independent of time whereas a time based bar might not. Many times this is the exact reason one might want to use a renko based indicator; To get you into a price move without waiting until its too late to trigger based on an arbitrary time bar. So your comment to use carefully or not at all during low volume/off hours markets is a good way to adjust for this.

The kicking continues...

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  #178 (permalink)
 gomi 
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Anyway Ninja has always had some volume issues on some of their bars as reported by Volume[0]

Here's a demonstration that
  • Ninja Renko, 3LB are flawed
  • Ninja PnF, Second and Tick is not
  • Better Renko is not.
I use the GomVolTest using NinjaTickFile, it shows the difference and cumulated difference between Vol[0] and the volume read from the file.

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  #179 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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gomi View Post
Anyway Ninja has always had some volume issues on some of their bars as reported by Volume[0]

Here's a demonstration that
  • Ninja Renko, 3LB are flawed
  • Ninja PnF, Second and Tick is not
  • Better Renko is not.
I use the GomVolTest using NinjaTickFile, it shows the difference and cumulated difference between Vol[0] and the volume read from the file.

I am always curious, have you talked to @NinjaTrader Ray about this stuff, and if so, what is his response?

Mike

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  #180 (permalink)
 gomi 
Paris
 
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No, I did not talk to Ray.

But I did try to open a ticket on the support forum
Volume total seems to depend on chart settings - NinjaTrader Support Forum

I provided them with a detailed scenario that didn't even need any Gom stuff
NinjaTrader Support Forum - View Single Post - Volume total seems to depend on chart settings

Try plotting in console the sum of volume of last 10 days in the ES

Here are my results :
10 000 Volume chart : 12590377
150 tick chart : 12590377
30 second chart : 12590287

Renko 2 chart : 12592723 , all chart is 2367 bars long
Renko 1 chart : 12608305 , all chart is 17949 bars long.

As you can see there is a mismatch in Renko volumes as compared to other volumes. Now if we assume each volume bar in Renko charts is off by 1, we could estimate corrected volumes :

Renko 2 chart : 12592723 - 2367 = 12590356
Renko 1 chart : 12608305 - 17949 = 12590356
So it could hardly be clearer that there is a 1 volume offset on each Renko bar....

But surely it was not convincing enough, because no ticket was open..

"Your test doesn't show that extra volume is added to renko 1. It is is difficult to line up so that you are comparing the exact same data across these different series. The time stamp of the renko bars is not even and this can lead to viewing different data even when all the parameters are the same. "

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  #181 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Well thanks for trying. It's just that there is usually consensus on things like this that NT is doing wrong, and I just wanted to try and make sure it is addressed in NT8.

Mike

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  #182 (permalink)
 patbateman 
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Big Mike View Post
I am always curious, have you talked to @ NinjaTrader Ray about this stuff, and if so, what is his response?

Mike

Hey mike,

What platform are you using as your 'primary' now? From your earlier posts, it looks like you were an NT7 user, but recently you are (also) using Multicharts and Sierracharts.

I find NT7 to be my favorite for retail platforms, despite the numerous bugs, some of them disasterous. I tried Sierracharts, Multicharts, Lightspeed, CyborgTrader, and a few others I can't recall. Sierracharts looked good, but it was difficult to find any automation. Multicharts looks pretty, but it seemed less comprehensive than Ninjatrader. There also seems to be allot of biasness around about Multicharts - anyone who's Russian generally automatically proclaims MC to be the greatest thing out there. While NT7 has plenty of things that are way behind schedule, it's disconcerting that MC has just put out a 64 bit version. Overall, the other platforms seemed to be less intuitive in automation than NT7 (despite the NT bugs). Additionally, Ninjatrader's charts are IMO definitely better than the rest, including Lightspeed. The charts in NT, along with the whole package, have the most lucid, clear cut and smooth GUI than anything else. Fortunately, the order placement and strategy are rock solid in stability (so far from my expirence), so an account blow up due to faulty software is unlikely.

All this software is nitche software, so bugs will be common because the programing teams will be attempting something comparable to Microsoft Office or the likes, but on a much smaller budget and wider timetable.

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  #183 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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patbateman View Post
Hey mike,

What platform are you using as your 'primary' now?

Sierra Chart for my discretionary trading, MultiCharts for my algo testing and sandbox playing. Looking to give NT another shot once NT8 is released.

Mike

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  #184 (permalink)
 Rachel 
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FrankFX View Post

Maybe it is a little off topic here, but for those who are interested in the "new" woodiebars:

I have compared the original $199pM "Woodiebars" Chatroom Chart with free MedianRenko Bars.


And what i have found out is really disappointing to me.

As you see in the attachment my template matches woodies pretty close. All you need is out in public for free.

Median Renko here at futures.io (formerly BMT)


ReversalBar_v2 here at futures.io (formerly BMT)

WoodieCCI comes with Ninja

Jeff`sCCI, I think from ThatManfromTexas - for coloring the CCI and the Background

Those useless by him so called "CCI Bands" are nothing else then ATR Volatility Bands you can purchase for $9,95 here at www.micro-trends.co.uk. and use them with the standard settings and tweak them a little.
Not on my chart on the right is the pricepanel but also available for free.

I am sorry to say and hoping i am wrong but to me, as a long time woodies chatroom follower, it seems the 33y professionell trader has turned in to a snakeoilsalesman (or he always was).


Frank

P.S. you know his trading mantras are: traders helping traders or a candle looses nothing by lighting another candle (you only have to pay $199p.M.)





Hi FrankFx,

How did you make the channel on the top and below the Renko bars?

Thank you for shaing this.

Rachel

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  #185 (permalink)
 FrankFX 
Germany
 
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Rachel View Post
Hi FrankFx,

How did you make the channel on the top and below the Renko bars?

Thank you for shaing this.

Rachel

Hi Rachel,

here it is

Credit goes to Fat Tails.

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: zip ATRVolatilityBands4.zip (5.9 KB, 247 views)
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  #186 (permalink)
 Rachel 
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FrankFX View Post
Hi Rachel,

here it is

Credit goes to Fat Tails.

Will this indie work in NT7?
Some of the indie's I have downloaded mess up my NT7 because they were made for an earier version.

Just like a confirmation but really appreciate you supplying it, just hope it is compatiable.

Thank you sincerely,

Rachel

PS I have sent Fat Tails a private message to find out, if you don't know.
Thanks again!

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  #187 (permalink)
 aligator 
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Rachel View Post
Will this indie work in NT7?
Some of the indie's I have downloaded mess up my NT7 because they were made for an earier version.

Just like a confirmation but really appreciate you supplying it, just hope it is compatiable.

Thank you sincerely,

Rachel

PS I have sent Fat Tails a private message to find out, if you don't know.
Thanks again!

@Rachel,

Yes, it does work on NT7. (Hi, @FrankFX)

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  #188 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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FrankFX View Post
Hi Rachel,

here it is

Credit goes to Fat Tails.

@FrankFX: This is a modified Keltner Channel, I have not coded it.

The original Keltner Channel uses a SMA(N) from the typical price as center line and the SMA(N) of the simple range to calculate the offset for the volatility bands.

This indicator uses a WMA(N) of the close (selected input series) as center line and the WMA(N) of the True Range to calculate the offset for the volatiity bands.

I have in fact coded a more versatile indicator, which allows you

- to select the moving average type for the center line
- the moving average type for the volatility bands
- to use different periods N1 and N2 for center line and volatility bands
- to either use the simple range or the true range at your choice

With settings WMA, WMA, TrueRange it would be identical to the indicator above, moreover there are 11 other moving averages you can select from.


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  #189 (permalink)
 wldman 
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and productive contribution for which I remain grateful.

Trying to decide on one of you pivots indies now.

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  #190 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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wldman View Post
and productive contribution for which I remain grateful.

Trying to decide on one of you pivots indies now.

I personally prefer the anaDailyPivots indicator, I think it is the most important.

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  #191 (permalink)
 wldman 
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that is/was the one on the screen right now. I'm going to search for threads that discuss to see how others are applying. Thank you again FT.

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  #192 (permalink)
 2010 
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Hi, can anyone tell me why the current price bar does not show, using Better Renko?

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  #193 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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2010 View Post
Hi, can anyone tell me why the current price bar does not show, using Better Renko?

the exact current price is definitely shown and appeared on your right hand side.

you can see the price marker moving up and down in syn with the price itself.

did you see the price moving?

now, however the exact spot of the price does also appear inside the better renko bar itself.

but unless the price at that moment in time is higher or is lower than the last renko bar itself,
you would not see it. 'cause the price movement is within the high and/or low of the renko bar itself, K?

nevertheless, if and when the price itself moves higher than the bar or vice versa, then you would see the
price and the renko bar moves higher or the renko bar moves lower, depending on the price, K?

that is the way, i understood it.

if i am incorrect, someone more experienced pls corrects me too, OK?

pls look at the attachment--the last price is shown in red, WITHIN the last renko bar, OK?

hope it helps some.


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  #194 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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if you want to see current price use indicator pricelineWH

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  #195 (permalink)
 MWinfrey 
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I have been using the Better Renko since aslan first introduced it and like it very much. However, one thing I miss is a definite and visual way of seeing how quickly a bar is formed. The idea is that if a bar takes a short time to form then there is a higher degree of probability that price will go in the direction of your trade. So, in other words, momentum in in your favor. Conversely, the longer it takes to complete a bar, the less likely that momentum is in your favor. Now to be more clear, I'm thinking like this to support a scalping type entry not a trend following entry...Well most of you know I will write an indicator at the drop of a hat to support/test an idea. The problem is I haven't been able to write one that creates the visual effect that is useful to me.

I discovered something about NT that I knew about but never explored it's use. That little tidbit is the use of the "Equidistant bar spacing" chart property. The default setting is true which is the normal way to view a chart. All the bars are nicely spaced and looks very uniform but hides the time element of a nonTimebased chart. So, on a lark, I changed the setting to false on a 4 tick better renko chart and also changed the Chart Style from candlestick to Box. I immediately noticed areas where the better renko boxes are really narrow and other areas where the boxes are really wide. Plus you see those in between as well. The thing I noticed is that the market is more likely to move with momentum when the bars are thin and less momentum with wide bars. To me, that seems to be what I was expected to happen but now with this setup I can see it very easily. I also adjust the time scale in the x-axis so it shows increments of 5 minutes. I have to check that each day because that seems to change sometimes.

I'm finding that CL seems to work better than TF or YM but they work as well.

Heres a picture of what I'm talking about with the trades I took today on CL...


There were other opportunites on that chart but either missed or for some reason elected to sit out. But the picture illustrates what I'm talking about. Notice that there are NO INDICATORS on the chart. Oh yeah, there is 1 indicator but it's only useful to show the close of the bar and it's a SMA(Close,1). I use that indicator because there are times when using the Box chart style with the BetterRenko there are gaps in the chart. So, I use that SMA to print something in those gaps. Those gaps occur in faster moving periods where a candlestick shows correctly but the Box does not.

I'm also providing a template because I know someone will ask. Simply create a BetterRenko chart and apply the template. After applying the template you will probably need to squeeze the x-axis together to get a 5 minute interval like what i have.

I'm finding that I'm not trading as much as I was....I kind of like that.

Curious if anyone finds it useful.

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xml BetterRenkoBoxTemplate.xml (11.3 KB, 115 views)
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  #196 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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MWinfrey View Post
I have been using the Better Renko since aslan first introduced it and like it very much. However, one thing I miss is a definite and visual way of seeing how quickly a bar is formed. The idea is that if a bar takes a short time to form then there is a higher degree of probability that price will go in the direction of your trade. So, in other words, momentum in in your favor. Conversely, the longer it takes to complete a bar, the less likely that momentum is in your favor. Now to be more clear, I'm thinking like this to support a scalping type entry not a trend following entry...Well most of you know I will write an indicator at the drop of a hat to support/test an idea. The problem is I haven't been able to write one that creates the visual effect that is useful to me.

I discovered something about NT that I knew about but never explored it's use. That little tidbit is the use of the "Equidistant bar spacing" chart property. The default setting is true which is the normal way to view a chart. All the bars are nicely spaced and looks very uniform but hides the time element of a nonTimebased chart. So, on a lark, I changed the setting to false on a 4 tick better renko chart and also changed the Chart Style from candlestick to Box. I immediately noticed areas where the better renko boxes are really narrow and other areas where the boxes are really wide. Plus you see those in between as well. The thing I noticed is that the market is more likely to move with momentum when the bars are thin and less momentum with wide bars. To me, that seems to be what I was expected to happen but now with this setup I can see it very easily. I also adjust the time scale in the x-axis so it shows increments of 5 minutes. I have to check that each day because that seems to change sometimes.

I'm finding that CL seems to work better than TF or YM but they work as well.

Heres a picture of what I'm talking about with the trades I took today on CL...


There were other opportunites on that chart but either missed or for some reason elected to sit out. But the picture illustrates what I'm talking about. Notice that there are NO INDICATORS on the chart. Oh yeah, there is 1 indicator but it's only useful to show the close of the bar and it's a SMA(Close,1). I use that indicator because there are times when using the Box chart style with the BetterRenko there are gaps in the chart. So, I use that SMA to print something in those gaps. Those gaps occur in faster moving periods where a candlestick shows correctly but the Box does not.

I'm also providing a template because I know someone will ask. Simply create a BetterRenko chart and apply the template. After applying the template you will probably need to squeeze the x-axis together to get a 5 minute interval like what i have.

I'm finding that I'm not trading as much as I was....I kind of like that.

Curious if anyone finds it useful.

thought i was the lone deviate for using the non-equi... to gauge volatility.... LOL

now at the very least there are two....

however, how and where did you go to adjust the time line to 5 min, pls? as mentioned below per quote:

thx much.

I also adjust the time scale in the x-axis so it shows increments of 5 minutes.

and any chance of converting .xml to ZIP FORMAT, pls?

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  #197 (permalink)
 MWinfrey 
Lubbock TX
 
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nakachalet View Post
thought i was the lone deviate for using the non-equi... to gauge volatility.... LOL

now at the very least there are two....

however, how and where did you go to adjust the time line to 5 min, pls? as mentioned below per quote:

thx much.

I also adjust the time scale in the x-axis so it shows increments of 5 minutes.

and any chance of converting .xml to ZIP FORMAT, pls?

click and hold the left mouse button in the margin of the x-axis and then either slide the mouse left or right.

not sure why you want .xml in zip format. NT will not import template files. you have to put them in the "...\Documents\NinjaTrader 7\templates\Chart" folder

How about that, now we are 2.

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  #198 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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MWinfrey View Post
click and hold the left mouse button in the margin of the x-axis and then either slide the mouse left or right.

not sure why you want .xml in zip format. NT will not import template files. you have to put them in the "...\Documents\NinjaTrader 7\templates\Chart" folder

How about that, now we are 2.

yup, using non-equi would appear to be too distracting leading many to assume that the price bars are too disorganized and randomly meaningless....

unless a trader could see the disorganized bars as a whole in his/her own perception, then those disorganized bars remain as most surmised as meaningless.

there have been a dozen of those xml in a separate file but since i do not know enough to import and apply them, they remain there for numerous months since.... LOL

will try to follow your suggestion and see, if i could import them successfully this time. thx much again, mwindrey. much appreciated.

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  #199 (permalink)
 indiantrader 
Mumbai, India
 
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Has anybody used Bluewave precision Bartypes? The Precision renko looks promising....at least in retrospect....it is similar to RJay's hybridrenko but with additional setting of reversal bar percentage ....ie ...trend revereses only after 200-300% of price reversal.......would like to have feedback with these bartypes.
One query about these is that if a reversal bar forms after 200-300% price reversal, then it would have already formed 2-3 normal size renko bars when reverse signal appears....would like to know if this is actually true.

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  #200 (permalink)
 tamerrashdan 
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I too was wondering if anyone had any experience with this type of Renko bars and if it's possible to trade using them

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