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Upgrade NT 6.5 to NT 7..BIG PROBLEMS!
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Upgrade NT 6.5 to NT 7..BIG PROBLEMS!

  #21 (permalink)
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turkmay View Post
Ninja Trader if you would stop being so defensive for a minute you might be able to see the problem from our side:

(1) The reason communication stopped between me and support is that your guys quit answering my emails. That's the reason I had to go elsewhere for a solution and ended up here on Big Mike's. Thankfully I finally got some help.

(2) Everybody involved was focused solely on the issue of 3rd party indicators...a classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. My problem was WAY bigger than getting a couple of my old indicators to work in NT 7. I couldn't get NT 7 to recognize it's OWN standard indicators that come bundled in the program!!! Never mind getting them to work...they weren't even listed.

(3) Fat Tails I'm sure what you say about being separate programs with separate folders is absolutely correct. All I know is that I tried to install NT7 3 different times and I was dead in the water until I deleted 6.5 completely.

Anyway, all is well. Thanks and good nite.

I am being defensive since some of you post inaccurate accounts of what happened and I feel it is my right to tell our side of the story. In your case, communcation stopped since my rep asked you to contact the original developer of the 3rd party indicators believing the ball was in your court. The symptom of your issue was related to 3rd party component. That is why we focused on that.

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  #22 (permalink)
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I can attest to the fact the third party indicators can cause this problem as my first install of NT7 had the same issue. Many default indicators missing.

I rolled back my system to NT6.5, found and removed the 3rd party indicators, which did have some DLL's associated with it, and NT7 installed perfectly. NT support caught the issue and was very helpful.

Pete

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  #23 (permalink)
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The points you originally posted were paraphrased and out of context and anyone who read them would have a negative account of what happened which is not accurate.




NinjaTrader View Post
I've been running this on a spare machine for the past 3 weeks, 24 hours a day, and never ran into an issue once.

Based on the above statement, you wrote "1. We have never seen that...". This statement taking into account the entire thread (referenced in an earlier post) clearly says that we have been trying to reproduce this problem running it continuously for 3 weeks with no success. A genuine interest in trying to replicate this problem so we can fix it.



NinjaTrader View Post
Today I experienced no issues either. Was there anything being done before experiencing this today? Please try to recollect every action taken leading up to it in as much detail as possible.

Based on the above statement, you wrote "3. What were you doing wrong that you aren't telling us...". No one implied or stated you were doing anything wrong nor hiding information from us. Standard debugging process is to gather all of the steps taken that led to an unexpected result. Since we are unable to replicate the issue, we are asking you to provide us as much detail as possible in hopes to find some key that will unlock this bug.



NinjaTrader View Post
Unfortunately you are the only report of this

Based on the above statement, you wrote "2. You are the only person out of the 10,000 users that has reported this...". Not sure where I stated 10,000 since we are at about 32,000 active users. Nevertheless, this was stated to provide context that we don't have any other datapoints except yours to try and isloate the problem.



NinjaTrader View Post
and all I can suggest at this point in time is for you to try a 100% clean reinstall without installing any 3rd party components and see if you still run into the issue. I realize this means you can't look at any of your indicators and such, but this is an important step to be able to nail down what is happening and eliminate all 3rd party components as potential factors.

Based on the above statement, you wrote "4. We suggest you dump everything and do a complete "clean" install ... " This is suggested since in any debug process, you always start with a working foundation and layer on steps until you find what breaks it. I highlighted a comment in red that explains this.


We can always improve our service to our customers and we continously traing out staff to accomplish that end. Our response to you in the context of the entire thread on our forum makes sense however, I can see that there are areas where we could provide more detail and will discuss this with my team.

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  #24 (permalink)
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lolu View Post
This RemoteSoft thing is making me get stuck with NT7......2. By the way, is NT7......2 a BETA ?

Lolu

No, it's not beta however 7.0.1000.3 was. As of this writing we are on 7.0.1000.4 and will be releasing 7.0.1000.5 shortly.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Although I am quite critical and love exploring all sorts of details, my overall experience with NinjaTrader support is quite positive. If I have to summarize my experience, I would put it into three different categories:

(1) In about 75% of all cases support has been quick to respond, courteous and solved the problem.

(2) In about 20% of all cases the problem was difficult to reproduce. This is highly unsatisfactory for both sides, as something is not working on my PC, but it works on the PCs of NinjaTrader support or developers. NinjaTrader support was highly co-operative, logged into my PC several times to experience the problems live. In most cases, the problem could be reproduced in the end, and the bugs were fixed. However, there are still a few pending cases. This is what I call the NinjaTrader demon, it strikes from time to time, and even on my side it is not predictable, when this will happen.

(3) In about one out of 20 support requests, I got an unhelpful answer by a stubborn respondent who either did not understand the problem or was unwilling to help. As TMFT, I am also stubborn, so you may imagine that this sort of situation quickly leads to a duel or extended discussion in the forum.

But, to be fair, the case (3) has remained an exception. I would estimate that - following my various requests - the NinjaTrader development team has at least made some 15 or 20 changes to improve the product. This means that my complaints or problems are - overwhelmingly - heard and taken care of.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
It was not necessary to delete NT 6.5. But as you deleted it, you will never know.

They are two different programs, and as long as you do not confuse the backups (they use the same default directory for backups) you will not run into problems.

But glad it worked in the end.


+1 very good post.

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  #27 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
I am being defensive since some of you post inaccurate accounts of what happened and I feel it is my right to tell our side of the story. In your case, communcation stopped since my rep asked you to contact the original developer of the 3rd party indicators believing the ball was in your court. The symptom of your issue was related to 3rd party component. That is why we focused on that.

Since I'm the one who started this whole fracas let me say first that I love Ninja Trader, have used it since day one, would recommend it to anyone, and can't conceive of going anywhere else. It is pretty much always stable and causes very few problems.

Having said that, the few times I have had to call on NT support I have, more often than not, gotten the feeling that they have a couple of fixes in their book and if those don't work they're done with you. I judge any support this way: I'm a reasonably smart guy and if I have to search somewhere else for the solution then the problem is with the support department and not me.

Bottom line: if I had gotten even a molecule of help from NT support in an easily accessible form I wouldn't have been at Big Mike's searching for a solution.

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  #28 (permalink)
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turkmay View Post
Since I'm the one who started this whole fracas let me say first that I love Ninja Trader, have used it since day one, would recommend it to anyone, and can't conceive of going anywhere else. It is pretty much always stable and causes very few problems.

Having said that, the few times I have had to call on NT support I have, more often than not, gotten the feeling that they have a couple of fixes in their book and if those don't work they're done with you. I judge any support this way: I'm a reasonably smart guy and if I have to search somewhere else for the solution then the problem is with the support department and not me.

Bottom line: if I had gotten even a molecule of help from NT support in an easily accessible form I wouldn't have been at Big Mike's searching for a solution.

First, I appreciate the vote of confidence and testimonial for our product. I reviewed your case again and I definitely see that we could have been clearer in our approach. Ultimately, the problem was a RemoteSoft protected assembly thus our support staff was on the right path. Doing a fresh install (what you did) resolved the issue since the assembly no longer would exist eliminating the problem. While this ultimately resolved the issue, my team is instructed NOT to recommend this unless they feel there is no other choice. I have already taken action and reviewed your case with the support rep involved and shown him a better way to resolve this situation should this issue arise with him in the future.

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  #29 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
The points you originally posted were paraphrased and out of context and anyone who read them would have a negative account of what happened which is not accurate.




Based on the above statement, you wrote "1. We have never seen that...". This statement taking into account the entire thread (referenced in an earlier post) clearly says that we have been trying to reproduce this problem running it continuously for 3 weeks with no success. A genuine interest in trying to replicate this problem so we can fix it.




Based on the above statement, you wrote "3. What were you doing wrong that you aren't telling us...". No one implied or stated you were doing anything wrong nor hiding information from us. Standard debugging process is to gather all of the steps taken that led to an unexpected result. Since we are unable to replicate the issue, we are asking you to provide us as much detail as possible in hopes to find some key that will unlock this bug.




Based on the above statement, you wrote "2. You are the only person out of the 10,000 users that has reported this...". Not sure where I stated 10,000 since we are at about 32,000 active users. Nevertheless, this was stated to provide context that we don't have any other datapoints except yours to try and isloate the problem.




Based on the above statement, you wrote "4. We suggest you dump everything and do a complete "clean" install ... " This is suggested since in any debug process, you always start with a working foundation and layer on steps until you find what breaks it. I highlighted a comment in red that explains this.


We can always improve our service to our customers and we continously traing out staff to accomplish that end. Our response to you in the context of the entire thread on our forum makes sense however, I can see that there are areas where we could provide more detail and will discuss this with my team.

@NinjaTrader

Which leads us to...

1.What I posted was accurate

2. There is a better way of dealing with complaints than "Going Medieval" on paying customers in a public forum when they say anything you don't want to hear.

3. Some support people at NT , like Matthew, are helpful. Others like to add insult to injury .

4. I like NT software and will continue to pay to use NT as long as the upside is greater than the downside However, I will not lie to keep from hurting your feelings.

5. I believe I found a solution to the problem and it did not involve deleting any of my custom indicators. Since I am not a programmer, I guess I could take being labled a Third Party Product Developer by one of your support staff a compliment.

Regards,
TMFT

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #30 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@NinjaTrader

Which leads us to...

1.What I posted was accurate

2. There is a better way of dealing with complaints than "Going Medieval" on paying customers in a public forum when they say anything you don't want to hear.

3. Some support people at NT , like Matthew, are helpful. Others like to add insult to injury .

4. I like NT software and will continue to pay to use NT as long as the upside is greater than the downside However, I will not lie to keep from hurting your feelings.

5. I believe I found a solution to the problem and it did not involve deleting any of my custom indicators. Since I am not a programmer, I guess I could take being labled a Third Party Product Developer by one of your support staff a compliment.

Regards,
TMFT

I disagree and I believe others that that read this post would also. What you posted was inaccurate since you put it out of context. What I did was put it back into context. It's really that simple.

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