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NT8 RAM Memory Bloat Testing new indicators before use


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NT8 RAM Memory Bloat Testing new indicators before use

  #1 (permalink)
 jmont1 
New York, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
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"Converting-ninjatrader-7-indicators-ninjatrader-8-free" thread had posts that may become obscured by the size of the 50+ page thread's growing popularity. They are important notes and are thus being composited into this thread for coders and especially non-coders (cut and pasters) to be informed:

NT8 traders should not naively accept new versions of custom indicators, including from commercial sources (who should know better, but experience has shown otherwise) until the indicator-writing community has NT8 nuances under its belt. All new NT8 indicators including updated versions should be treated carefully.

Follow @Zondor's advice about segregating a test environment for the indicator until you are certain of it. And do it one indicator at a time, on an otherwise bare chart each time. Otherwise, you are never going to know where the problem is, if there is one from your custom indicator(s.)

There are other issues with NT8, which others have pointed out, and these are just a matter of growing pains. They will be fixed. But if NT does not change their mind about coders needing to manually add code to manage memory (in those situations where it's needed), then we will just have to hold on until the coding community knows what to do, and when.


Zondor View Post
Edited advice:

Start with NT disconnected from your data provider.

In a new, dedicated test workspace, create a chart with many instances of the indicator to be evaluated. But no indicators other than that one.

Then clone the chart, make a bunch of these single indicator charts possibly with different instruments or timeframes.

Log on to your data provider and watch the RAM usage in Windows Task Manager using CTRL-Alt-DEL, Task Manager, Performance tab. Once loaded memory should be fairly static if there are no issues.

Or run the chart in Playback mode as fast as you can.

If the RAM usage goes up up up as Ninjatrader runs, that's a FAIL.

Do this for every indicator that you add. This will avoid creating an unmanageable mess that will have you singing the "Ninjatrader 8 not ready for prime time " Blues.

An example reported as possibly having this type of issue is the March 25th version posting:



The author udated the post with: Its been brought to my attention this indicator may or may not use excessive RAM. Word of caution if you have issues using this indicator. I personally have not had issues besides sluggishness moving the x-axis.

Original coding concern comment was:

The fractal pivot indicator provided is a memory devouring, RAM hog disaster.

The kind of indicator that will make you think that "NT8 is not ready for prime time".

It keeps drawing more and more unique and separate text objects, lots of them. Each one uses more RAM. None of them are ever removed. This is the worst possible way to plot horizontal lines.

The longer it runs, the more RAM it will use. Until Ninjatrader freezes, or until you shut it down voluntarily, whichever comes first.

----------------
In the meantime, NT8 does seem like a great platform, assuming you don't want to get too far into customized indicators. For example, it is way faster (you do need a somewhat decent computer, but not a great one) and has many user-oriented improvements. But indicator-writing is not yet widely reliable.

Be cautious.

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  #3 (permalink)
 NGtrader 
Burnaby, BC Canada
 
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It has also been talked about here:

Yes even indicators from commercial vendors can cause the issue such as what I mentioned regarding OFA. I am very wary about many indicators offered for free even on this forum because it appears amateur coders are not taking into account the memory management aspects. Luckily I do not use many indicators for trading so I am able to quickly narrow down which ones to avoid.

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  #4 (permalink)
 bobc635 
Tucson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage5
Trading: CL, YM
Posts: 209 since Jan 2011
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Hi J and other NT8 users,
Like many of us, I have found some indicators or circumstances that hog memory. I have asked NinjaTrader to add memory mapping capabilities to the Utilization Monitor. The UM displays the time that each indie, bar type, etc have used. In addition to the time, I think it would be great to be able to see the amount of memory consumed and watch that and see if/how it accumulates. NT uses a community voting system to prioritize what gets developed next. I would appreciate if you would write into PlatformSupport and ask them to develop this tool. The request tracking number is SFT-3498...

Thanks so much and Trade Well...
BobC

PS The Utilization Monitor is accessed by right clicking the NinjaScript Output Window...



jmont1 View Post
"Converting-ninjatrader-7-indicators-ninjatrader-8-free" thread had posts that may become obscured by the size of the 50+ page thread's growing popularity. They are important notes and are thus being composited into this thread for coders and especially non-coders (cut and pasters) to be informed:

NT8 traders should not naively accept new versions of custom indicators, including from commercial sources (who should know better, but experience has shown otherwise) until the indicator-writing community has NT8 nuances under its belt. All new NT8 indicators including updated versions should be treated carefully.

Follow @Zondor's advice about segregating a test environment for the indicator until you are certain of it. And do it one indicator at a time, on an otherwise bare chart each time. Otherwise, you are never going to know where the problem is, if there is one from your custom indicator(s.)

There are other issues with NT8, which others have pointed out, and these are just a matter of growing pains. They will be fixed. But if NT does not change their mind about coders needing to manually add code to manage memory (in those situations where it's needed), then we will just have to hold on until the coding community knows what to do, and when.



An example reported as possibly having this type of issue is the March 25th version posting:



The author udated the post with: Its been brought to my attention this indicator may or may not use excessive RAM. Word of caution if you have issues using this indicator. I personally have not had issues besides sluggishness moving the x-axis.

Original coding concern comment was:

The fractal pivot indicator provided is a memory devouring, RAM hog disaster.

The kind of indicator that will make you think that "NT8 is not ready for prime time".

It keeps drawing more and more unique and separate text objects, lots of them. Each one uses more RAM. None of them are ever removed. This is the worst possible way to plot horizontal lines.

The longer it runs, the more RAM it will use. Until Ninjatrader freezes, or until you shut it down voluntarily, whichever comes first.

----------------
In the meantime, NT8 does seem like a great platform, assuming you don't want to get too far into customized indicators. For example, it is way faster (you do need a somewhat decent computer, but not a great one) and has many user-oriented improvements. But indicator-writing is not yet widely reliable.

Be cautious.


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  #5 (permalink)
 
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 sam028 
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I think this would be possible only if Ninja core libraries are compile in debug mode which will make things heavier and slower. So the chance to have such UM, at least with the details and not simply the ninjatrader.exe process RAM usage, is low, IMHO.


bobc635 View Post
Hi J and other NT8 users,
Like many of us, I have found some indicators or circumstances that hog memory. I have asked NinjaTrader to add memory mapping capabilities to the Utilization Monitor. The UM displays the time that each indie, bar type, etc have used. In addition to the time, I think it would be great to be able to see the amount of memory consumed and watch that and see if/how it accumulates. NT uses a community voting system to prioritize what gets developed next. I would appreciate if you would write into PlatformSupport and ask them to develop this tool. The request tracking number is SFT-3498...

Thanks so much and Trade Well...
BobC

PS The Utilization Monitor is accessed by right clicking the NinjaScript Output Window...


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  #6 (permalink)
 bobc635 
Tucson
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: CL, YM
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Hi Sam.... You may be right... but I would rather have something to see and evaluate than nothing. Certainly some indication of memory and time is better than just seeing time... They may have methods that could really amaze us as well.... is it worth a vote???

Thanks
Bob

sam028 View Post
I think this would be possible only if Ninja core libraries are compile in debug mode which will make things heavier and slower. So the chance to have such UM, at least with the details and not simply the ninjatrader.exe process RAM usage, is low, IMHO.


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  #7 (permalink)
 jmont1 
New York, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader8
Broker: Data = Rithmic -- Gives 70 Level II Data
Trading: 6C (Low Margin,) 6E, CL, GC, ES and Maybe DX for smaller tick value
Posts: 1,394 since May 2011
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Thanks Received: 1,019


bobc635 View Post
Hi J and other NT8 users,
Like many of us, I have found some indicators or circumstances that hog memory. I have asked NinjaTrader to add memory mapping capabilities to the Utilization Monitor. The UM displays the time that each indie, bar type, etc have used. In addition to the time, I think it would be great to be able to see the amount of memory consumed and watch that and see if/how it accumulates. NT uses a community voting system to prioritize what gets developed next. I would appreciate if you would write into PlatformSupport and ask them to develop this tool. The request tracking number is SFT-3498...

Thanks so much and Trade Well...
BobC

PS The Utilization Monitor is accessed by right clicking the NinjaScript Output Window...

@bobc635, not familiar with how to find SFT-3498 on Ninjatrader Support Forum. Tried advanced search but it did not find it. Please explain how to search for it or provide a link. Thanks!

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  #8 (permalink)
 bobc635 
Tucson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage5
Trading: CL, YM
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Hi JMont… From my understanding, the SFT# is their internal log. When they receive similar requests they lump them together and it moves up the ladder of importance for development. My thought was to get several people to add their requests for similar and even mention SFT-3498. If we get enough votes, we might stand a chance of getting it worked on. Thanks for showing enough interest and reaching out.

Bob



jmont1 View Post
@bobc635, not familiar with how to find SFT-3498 on Ninjatrader Support Forum. Tried advanced search but it did not find it. Please explain how to search for it or provide a link. Thanks!


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  #9 (permalink)
 jmont1 
New York, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader8
Broker: Data = Rithmic -- Gives 70 Level II Data
Trading: 6C (Low Margin,) 6E, CL, GC, ES and Maybe DX for smaller tick value
Posts: 1,394 since May 2011
Thanks Given: 1,719
Thanks Received: 1,019


bobc635 View Post
Hi JMont… From my understanding, the SFT# is their internal log. When they receive similar requests they lump them together and it moves up the ladder of importance for development. My thought was to get several people to add their requests for similar and even mention SFT-3498. If we get enough votes, we might stand a chance of getting it worked on. Thanks for showing enough interest and reaching out.

Bob

@bobc635, my experience is the way to get more votes is to point users to the original post that got the SFT request.

Here is an example where after the request is created then others vote on that post and the moderator replies that they will add the vote:

"Feature Request - Strategy Builder use named ATM strategy"

"Thank you for your vote I have added it to the feature request SFT-1986."

https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/ninjatrader-8/strategy-development/97477-feature-request-strategy-builder-use-named-atm-strategy

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  #10 (permalink)
 bobc635 
Tucson
 
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Thanks JMont.... I did not realize that I could follow it on their site... Here is the initial response from NT...

Hello Bob,
I have added a vote for you to a current feature request for improvements to the Utilization Monitor and added your comments. This request is being tracked under the number SFT-3498.

After seeing your response and the NT site, I sent their response back to them to learn how to follow it. Here is the response that I received.....

There's not a public tracker for feature requests available as feature requests are internally managed. You can absolutely give your friends the SFT number and let them know they can write into us directly at [email protected] and just say something to the effect of "Please add a vote for me to SFT-3498" and we'll get that added for them.

Thanks for the info and interest... All, please write to support and vote to have SFT 3498 promoted into development.

Bob


jmont1 View Post
@bobc635, my experience is the way to get more votes is to point users to the original post that got the SFT request.

Here is an example where after the request is created then others vote on that post and the moderator replies that they will add the vote:

"Feature Request - Strategy Builder use named ATM strategy"

"Thank you for your vote I have added it to the feature request SFT-1986."

https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/ninjatrader-8/strategy-development/97477-feature-request-strategy-builder-use-named-atm-strategy


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