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Ninja Trader Custom Order Book - 1LDom - Source Code
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Ninja Trader Custom Order Book - 1LDom - Source Code

  #41 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
As someone that knows a fair amount about TT, it's patent and the way it pursues infringement cases, I would urge you to tread very carefully here.

1 - Should this project become the 'clone' of XTtrader the posts in this thread imply, you will more than likely be hearing from TT. You have already cloned the appearance to some extent.

2 - By doing this work as individuals, you become personally liable for the infringement. Behind a corporation, you put the corporations assets at risk, with no corporation, it's your personal assets.

3 - By doing this as shareware, the usual resolution for infringement (payment of royalties to TT) is not available to you. You have no control of the licenses, you have no idea who's using it, therefore you can't move your users to a version that collects royalties.

4 - The posts in this thread so far will make TTs job very easy were it to ever get to court. The more people request and add in TTs features, the stronger their case becomes.

I personally disagree strongly with the TT patent but it is what it is.

I'd think long and hard before you put your personal assets on the line for a shareware clone of their product.

I agree, ' + pageTitle + '

Plus there is no reason why we couldnt come up with a design thats unique enough to remain in the bounds of legality.

Maybe futures.io (formerly BMT) dom design contest?!

"If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong."
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  #42 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
As someone that knows a fair amount about TT, it's patent and the way it pursues infringement cases, I would urge you to tread very carefully here.

1 - Should this project become the 'clone' of XTtrader the posts in this thread imply, you will more than likely be hearing from TT. You have already cloned the appearance to some extent.

2 - By doing this work as individuals, you become personally liable for the infringement. Behind a corporation, you put the corporations assets at risk, with no corporation, it's your personal assets.

3 - By doing this as shareware, the usual resolution for infringement (payment of royalties to TT) is not available to you. You have no control of the licenses, you have no idea who's using it, therefore you can't move your users to a version that collects royalties.

4 - The posts in this thread so far will make TTs job very easy were it to ever get to court. The more people request and add in TTs features, the stronger their case becomes.

I personally disagree strongly with the TT patent but it is what it is.

I'd think long and hard before you put your personal assets on the line for a shareware clone of their product.

I was not aware that this thread was an attempt to clone TT's X-Trader nor was I aware that the software was shareware? I'm a little confused on that.. please elaborate?

As far as I can see, volume ladder is part of Gomi's tool, the 2 historical ladders are something that I thought up myself, the Dom looks like, well yes a DOM, although from my knowledge I do not believe another DOM that works off a trading chart is actually in existence at present. Really the look and feel are mostly reliant on the colour scheme. Will they be coming after us for using the colour red and blue do you think?

If there is anything in particular that is an outright violation of a patent then I would be happy to hear some suggestions as to how we could amend it to make sure nobodies toes are stepped on. As of now I'm a little perplexed as to what could be an infringement to be honest.

1Lot


Last edited by 1LotTrader; September 21st, 2012 at 06:13 AM.
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  #43 (permalink)
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1Lot - don't take it personally, OK? It is just intended to be a very friendly warning.

TT do not play nicely with others.

The OP and subsequent posts mention TT and putting in things that XTrader has. The software is shareware as the source is here available to all.

Ultimately, it will not matter what I think, you think, Big Mike thinks. It will only matter what TT think. If TT stumble across this, it will be their interpretation of your intention and their interpretation of whether an infringement occurred that decides if they go to court.

You could more than likely cover your a$$ by spending $5-600 on a Nevada/Wyoming corporation to own this software and in turn take on any liabilities.

Everyone with a DOM pays TT, so if you develop a freeware/shareware DOM without the ability to pay TT - I don't think they'd ignore it. The thing is - TT are on very shaky ground with their patent but they can bully people into submission because of the money they are willing to throw @ lawyers.

The patent documents are available on line. It's worth taking a look at them.

I shall say no more on the topic. Good luck.

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  #44 (permalink)
 Vendor: the1lottrader.com 
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DionysusToast View Post
As someone that knows a fair amount about TT, it's patent and the way it pursues infringement cases, I would urge you to tread very carefully here.

1 - Should this project become the 'clone' of XTtrader the posts in this thread imply, you will more than likely be hearing from TT. You have already cloned the appearance to some extent.

2 - By doing this work as individuals, you become personally liable for the infringement. Behind a corporation, you put the corporations assets at risk, with no corporation, it's your personal assets.

3 - By doing this as shareware, the usual resolution for infringement (payment of royalties to TT) is not available to you. You have no control of the licenses, you have no idea who's using it, therefore you can't move your users to a version that collects royalties.

4 - The posts in this thread so far will make TTs job very easy were it to ever get to court. The more people request and add in TTs features, the stronger their case becomes.

I personally disagree strongly with the TT patent but it is what it is.

I'd think long and hard before you put your personal assets on the line for a shareware clone of their product.


DionysusToast View Post
1Lot - don't take it personally, OK? It is just intended to be a very friendly warning.

TT do not play nicely with others.

The OP and subsequent posts mention TT and putting in things that XTrader has. The software is shareware as the source is here available to all.

Ultimately, it will not matter what I think, you think, Big Mike thinks. It will only matter what TT think. If TT stumble across this, it will be their interpretation of your intention and their interpretation of whether an infringement occurred that decides if they go to court.

You could more than likely cover your a$$ by spending $5-600 on a Nevada/Wyoming corporation to own this software and in turn take on any liabilities.

Everyone with a DOM pays TT, so if you develop a freeware/shareware DOM without the ability to pay TT - I don't think they'd ignore it. The thing is - TT are on very shaky ground with their patent but they can bully people into submission because of the money they are willing to throw @ lawyers.

The patent documents are available on line. It's worth taking a look at them.

I shall say no more on the topic. Good luck.

I am not taking it personally, I just have to question your intentions here. Your first post absolutely wreaks to high heaven of scare mongering.

Secondly you are a vendor with a competing product which you charge for. Thirdly you are making insinuations that are in no way true. This product is not shareware, it is free. There is a very large difference. No money is being made by anyone, nor is it a demo or a limited version of a fuller version. As a software vendor I would have thought you would understand the difference. No where has anyone talked of trying to build a TT clone, I have in fact stated a number of times through this thread this is an order book light that will allow one to learn to read a DOM in a format that is usable but not ideal, my reference to TT is that it has a TT look and feel, mostly the colours but really the similarities pretty much end there.

At no point in time have I ever discussed trying to take it any further in terms of cloning elements of TT's dom.
In fact I have on a few occasions stated that once one is proficient at DOM reading it makes sense to move to a professional setup as a chart DOM has it's limitations. On my blog I in fact pointed to TT as an avenue to persue in this regard.

And finally now that I ask you to share your expertise on TT patents you suddenly backtrack and shut down your initial stream with "I will say no more on this topic" with some other wishy washy nonsense about it not mattering about what anybody thinks except for TT. Tell me do you also believe in the bogey man?

Sorry my friend but I call a spade a spade, whether you try to dress it up with a friendly pat on the back or not.

In any case you have already tainted my enthusiasm for this thread. So well done to you, I guess it is mission accomplished.

1Lot

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  #45 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Everyone with a DOM pays TT, so if you develop a freeware/shareware DOM without the ability to pay TT - I don't think they'd ignore it.

That is not true, TT’s patents only cover an interface that includes a price scale where the prices never automatically move (known as static ladder).

1LotTrader's code isnt designed to submit orders, it only displays market activity and is not static as it moves with price.

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  #46 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Everyone with a DOM pays TT

Everyone with a DOM pays TT? I thought it was everyone with a static DOM pays TT. Can you clarify?

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  #47 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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SPMC View Post
That is not true, TTs patents only cover an interface that includes a price scale where the prices never automatically move (known as static ladder).

Not quite true. The patent covers a huge range of items, most of which didn't stand up in court but some which have not yet been tested.


SPMC View Post
1LotTrader's code isnt designed to submit orders, it only displays market activity and is not static as it moves with price.

Understood - but if you look at the thread, a number of TT specific features were requested as well as a trading interface. At that point, you do have to worry about TT. Combine that with the use of the exact fonts & colors that XTrader uses, it makes sense to do things in a way that doesn't look too much like a poke in their eye.

Maybe use different fonts, colors - make it look less like Xtrader.

Bottom line is that it never hurts to cover your a$$. To do so would be very easy. I'm in the same business myself and I thought I was doing a favour by pointing it out. I also presented an a$$ covering solution.

There's lots of DOMS out there - I have one. One more is not going to hurt my business. This is not a plot.

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  #48 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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josh View Post
Everyone with a DOM pays TT? I thought it was everyone with a static DOM pays TT. Can you clarify?

Does anyone trade off a non-static DOM? That's the one thing I could never figure out. When Tradestation got hit, they just released a new non-static version without telling the customers.

It took me a few hours to realize - I thought there was something wrong with my mouse. I can't see how people trade off something that jitters around like that.

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  #49 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Does anyone trade off a non-static DOM? That's the one thing I could never figure out. When Tradestation got hit, they just released a new non-static version without telling the customers.

It took me a few hours to realize - I thought there was something wrong with my mouse. I can't see how people trade off something that jitters around like that.

I can't do it either, but clearly what 1Lot has done here is not a static DOM. It's a price ladder on a chart that moves, so it's not a static DOM.

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  #50 (permalink)
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Hy 1LotTrader!

I have just found your order flow tool and I must tell you its awsome!! I will follow this thread and you blog very closely.
studying this stuff I had an Idea.
It would be great to see the trades separately by was traded at bid or ask.
Do you think it is possible to create another three column on the left side to show trades on bid and keep the right three to show trades ad ask?

Thanks
Andre

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