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Ninja Trader Custom Order Book - 1LDom - Source Code
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Ninja Trader Custom Order Book - 1LDom - Source Code

  #191 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I looked at the ladder in your example and honestly, the spot you refer is not any different than what i can see at various places on this chart. What pattern do you see at the top (not sure if that is the case as i can't see the Y axis) that is different from all these other places? Is it that the ask side shows the numbers in decreasing order? Is this the pattern you are poiting out?

My guess would be ask got hit over 1000 times, but price did not tick up...I call this a bullish hold, aka absorption. Just a guess though

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  #192 (permalink)
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@1LotTrader

I appreciate you taking the time to answer or try to expose your view but i think your comment above kind of shut off the possibility to discuss the technical aspects of trading with the DOM any further since it seems to all come down to a personal preference. I would have thought that long time users of such a tool would have some generic principles or applications of it to share.

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  #193 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I looked at the ladder in your example and honestly, the spot you refer is not any different than what i can see at various places on this chart. What pattern do you see at the top (not sure if that is the case as i can't see the Y axis) that is different from all these other places? Is it that the ask side shows the numbers in decreasing order? Is this the pattern you are poiting out?

yes that was a bad pic. here's a better one.

what you can see is more than 1000 contracts traded at 1407, but never made it as bid. what you can't see is how the offer was refreshed. that's why that dom is very helpful. also another reason was, we were getting close to 2nd deviation vwap in a more or less ranging day. enough to go short for me.

but again, you need to watch that dom for yourself in real time. and you need to do that for a long time. that is if you're really interested in it.

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  #194 (permalink)
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Thanks for clarifying. What about the similar pattern on the ladder that occured a bit before the bar where you took your trade (see prior small swing high). This prior swing high has the same allure as the one you described. Not that it would have made a huge difference since you could have shorted that swing high just the same.


Silvester17 View Post
yes that was a bad pic. here's a better one.

what you can see is more than 1000 contracts traded at 1407, but never made it as bid. what you can't see is how the offer was refreshed. that's why that dom is very helpful. also another reason was, we were getting close to 2nd deviation vwap in a more or less ranging day. enough to go short for me.

but again, you need to watch that dom for yourself in real time. and you need to do that for a long time. that is if you're really interested in it.

...


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  #195 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post
you need to watch that dom for yourself in real time. and you need to do that for a long time. that is if you're really interested in it.

@Silvester17,

Good observation. Perhaps it might be a good idea to explain in a few short bullets what is it that one has to look for staring at the Dom and how these observations can be used to form an opinion about what the price might do.

I used to go blind watching the dom until I got a few clues here and there and finally caught up with it. I think a short primer on this thread would serve to help people appreciate the value of this tool and generate meaningful interest (I know the usual response, "do a search"). But, it is like offering me an iPhone 5, without a manual when my experience is limited to a basic phone received from AARP as a gift.

Cheers!

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  #196 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Thanks for clarifying. What about the similar pattern on the ladder that occured a bit before the bar where you took your trade (see prior small swing high). This prior swing high has the same allure as the one you described. Not that it would have made a huge difference since you could have shorted that swing high just the same.


aligator View Post
@Silvester17,

Good observation. Perhaps it might be a good idea to explain in a few short bullets what is it that one has to look for staring at the Dom and how these observations can be used to form an opinion about what the price might do.

I used to go blind watching the dom until I got a few clues here and there and finally caught up with it. I think a short primer on this thread would serve to help people appreciate the value of this tool and generate meaningful interest (I know the usual response, "do a search"). But, it is like offering me an iPhone 5, without a manual when my experience is limited to a basic phone received from AARP as a gift.

Cheers!

since I really suck at explaining, I rather post a link. it's anyway easier to see than just to read about it. I think there're good examples how one could use that tool. I don't think it's much different than what I do.

should add, I didn't buy any courses or even watched any webinars. someone posted that link in another thread the other day.

No BS Day Trading

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  #197 (permalink)
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@Silvester17 that is a great resource for seeing the basics of how it is used, I used that myself when I first got started with the DOM. I had the intention of creating a few similar videos for free, I just haven't had the time to get round to it yet. Really though I think that gives a great bit of guidance for anyone looking to get started. Perhaps at some point I will try knock up a small guideline or something and attach it to the front of the thread as @aligator suggested.

@trendisyourfriend I do not really understand your statement as if I look back at the last few posts I see now a number of things pointed out that shows both generic principles and application. Any case it is hard to convince someone who has already made up his mind. I would say spend a couple of months using and studying it and then come and discuss the findings/observations, you will then have a better base from which to ask questions. It is difficult for me to discuss with you the reason for an open racket face on a deep forehand drive in squash when you have been playing tennis for years, have already made up your mind tennis is a better game and then not even willing to pick up a squash racket and take a couple of basic hits with the ball.

Yes in Tennis and Squash we have both a racket, we have now a ball, we have a court, two opponents but it is a completely different game. At your level you are like a tennis player that has never even stepped on the squash court but now you want to compare the squash forehand with the tennis forehand and discuss this sort of thing. Really the whole line of discussion is just very difficult to approach for a number of reasons.

That is why I say first you see if it is the right fit, maybe you pick up the squash racket and take a few hits and you absolutely hate it, then for you it is always going to be a waste of time since trading in itself is mostly a psychological endevour. Maybe you like it and want to play some more and then commit to a deeper study of the game. That would be a conversation I would find easier to part take in. Not - why is squash better than tennis.

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  #198 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
...

I used to go blind watching the dom until I got a few clues here and there and finally caught up with it. I think a short primer on this thread would serve to help people appreciate the value of this tool and generate meaningful interest (I know the usual response, "do a search"). But, it is like offering me an iPhone 5, without a manual when my experience is limited to a basic phone received from AARP as a gift.

Cheers!

Could you share some of the clues or insights gleaned over your study of this tool. For example, Sylvester posted a chart and i was unable to see the difference between the two similar patterns that occured in the top part of the chart. My hesitation about this tool is that without good location and timing, you're in the same situation as someone using a regular chart. When i point this fact, usually people answer i need to see it in real time. Problem is i look at the candle pointed by Sylvester and i get the same info by just looking at the candle closing price provided we are at a key location. On the ES, i have the feeling you do this to gain just 1 or 2 ticks by contrast to the guy who uses a chart without this tool. Also, you do not mention anything about the numerous fake out signals this tool can produce.

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  #199 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Could you share some of the clues or insights gleaned over your study of this tool. For example, Sylvester posted a chart and i was unable to see the difference between the two similar patterns that occured in the top part of the chart. My hesitation about this tool is that without good location and timing, you're in the same situation as someone using a regular chart. When i point this fact, usually people answer i need to see it in real time. Problem is i look at the candle pointed by Sylvester and i get the same info by just looking at the candle closing price provided we are at a key location. On the ES, i have the feeling you do this to gain just 1 or 2 ticks by contrast to the guy who uses a chart without this tool. Also, you do not mention anything about the numerous fake out signals this tool can produce.

sure looks like you made up your mind already about this tool.

like I said, what I'm looking for is "big" volume. for this example many attempts and failure to get above 1407. the bigger the better. hundreds of contracts traded at ask (1407), but unable to get passed because more and more orders are added to the ask at 1407. that's a sign of weakness for me. that's the difference between the two examples you showed.

sure if it happens at one of your key levels, it might add some more confidence in a trade. me personally I don't like to trade from key levels. I prefer key zones.

like also said, not every trade is a winner, but the risk is very small.

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  #200 (permalink)
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@trendisyourfriend, charting is all about historical price, volume is very much added as an afterthought. Yes you can read volume on a chart with a ladder and these things that were developed at a later stage but like I said it was an afterthought. The book by contrast was built to observe the price/volume relationship. This is what the book is for, not just looking at the price. How does the price interact with volume and what is the result. Also we see what is the potential intentions of some outside players. These are the things the book was built around, it is the bread and butter of it.

The chart was always designed around the idea of analysing historical price patterns and then some clever people later added on different ways to see volume. Now in terms of the chart volume ladder Silvester posts, the chart is better for that because it allows you to analyse price/volume relationship history but the book strength is not about history it is about looking at the price/volume relationship that is happening right now, at this very moment, who is trading what and at what price.. tell me where you can see this on a chart? a chart what I see is price history and then on the hard right edge I see a small close tick up and down. That is it. Once the candle is painted it is now history, trades already conducted and finished. Do you want to trade based on what has been done already or what is happening right now?

One other thing I will say, this thing, 1LDom is not some tool that I designed from scratch, there is nothing in it that is new. I merely ported some of the best of breed ideas from the professional books that have existed in the market for years and years. What came before the book? The ticker tape, the book is essentially an evolved form of the ticker tape that allows one to visualise the price/volume relationship in a structure which is comprehendable to the human brain in modern times where we have 100's of trades going through at an instant. If you go into trading prop firms, you will not see it full of charts, you will see it full of order books. Volume is as important as Price in determining outcomes and setting out a play. If you ask me what is the best tool for observing the interaction of Price and Volume in real time it is hands down the order book, there is really no competition with a chart but it is not my job to sell it to you as I said. You try it and you see for yourself.

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