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Scammed by Ninja Trader certified Consultant


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Scammed by Ninja Trader certified Consultant

  #51 (permalink)
tradethis
detroit, mi
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2013
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 2

has anyone had success getting paypal refunds for nonsatisfactory products after their time limit on complaints has passed?

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  #52 (permalink)
 typer77 
Hong Kong
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, Asian Equity futures
Posts: 32 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 9


rusko View Post
Thanks, I will check them out.

Any feedback from Mark Whitmark ? He asks a lot of money, but he seems to be very professional and experienced in unmanaged orders and overfill handling..

I don't know if my feedback is too late.
Before the project started and half the fund was transferred, Whitmark sounded very very professional about what he does. I think he does own a good knowledge on ninjascript.
Nonetheless, the delivery of the first version was 2 months late. He claims he was working on a very big project for another client. He did not disclose, however, that he had a big project on hand and would be late in delivery when asking for the LARGE SUM of programming fees. When I paid the remaining amount, the strategy is still not working. He blames the strategy had to use a 3rd party code, and it was more complicated and expensive than an ordinary strategy.

then the first version wasn't working as described. We had plan to make it work. Then I had already drafted a more complicated version of the original strategy. He asks for a another sum of money. I paid.

The result - he used the money on my 2nd project towards the "extra time" he had to put in fixing the first strategy.

In the end, he never delivered a working version of the first strategy. I emailed him, he said he was on a trip and would return to work on the same weekend. I emailed twice a week later, he never even replied.

Stay away from Mark Whitmark.

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  #53 (permalink)
 Koepisch 
@ Germany
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: FDAX
Posts: 569 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 440
Thanks Received: 518



typer77 View Post
I don't know if my feedback is too late.
Before the project started and half the fund was transferred, Whitmark sounded very very professional about what he does. I think he does own a good knowledge on ninjascript.
Nonetheless, the delivery of the first version was 2 months late. He claims he was working on a very big project for another client. He did not disclose, however, that he had a big project on hand and would be late in delivery when asking for the LARGE SUM of programming fees. When I paid the remaining amount, the strategy is still not working. He blames the strategy had to use a 3rd party code, and it was more complicated and expensive than an ordinary strategy.

then the first version wasn't working as described. We had plan to make it work. Then I had already drafted a more complicated version of the original strategy. He asks for a another sum of money. I paid.

The result - he used the money on my 2nd project towards the "extra time" he had to put in fixing the first strategy.

In the end, he never delivered a working version of the first strategy. I emailed him, he said he was on a trip and would return to work on the same weekend. I emailed twice a week later, he never even replied.

Stay away from Mark Whitmark.

@typer77: Sorry to hear your story. You will never know if you can trust somebody, even if he claims to be an professional. I do a lot of research regarding my own strategy und even for myself it is difficult to keep on track and keep the development time short. From my own experience i can advise you to split the big task into smaller pieces and pay them after completion and your approval. Every strategy is based of a few underlying pieces which could be splitted (and for instance quick visualized). Next step is to combine the different values into your strategy logic (visualize the results). Last step is the trade Management. Then your money isn't wasted if the developer quits your project. Another developer can carry over the results from the first dev. and bring it to an end.

Koepisch

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  #54 (permalink)
 
whitmark's Avatar
 whitmark   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 13 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 28


typer77 View Post
I don't know if my feedback is too late.
Before the project started and half the fund was transferred, Whitmark sounded very very professional about what he does. I think he does own a good knowledge on ninjascript.
Nonetheless, the delivery of the first version was 2 months late. He claims he was working on a very big project for another client. He did not disclose, however, that he had a big project on hand and would be late in delivery when asking for the LARGE SUM of programming fees. When I paid the remaining amount, the strategy is still not working. He blames the strategy had to use a 3rd party code, and it was more complicated and expensive than an ordinary strategy.

then the first version wasn't working as described. We had plan to make it work. Then I had already drafted a more complicated version of the original strategy. He asks for a another sum of money. I paid.

The result - he used the money on my 2nd project towards the "extra time" he had to put in fixing the first strategy.

In the end, he never delivered a working version of the first strategy. I emailed him, he said he was on a trip and would return to work on the same weekend. I emailed twice a week later, he never even replied.

Stay away from Mark Whitmark.

Interestingly, I get a call about once a month from prospective clients who are upset with their current developer and want to see if I can help them out. So you can imagine my surprise when I see that one of my own clients, typer77, is complaining here about me! For sure, his project has not gone as well as I would have hoped but I am not about to prosecute the particulars on this forum. Suffice to say I am not trying to scam anyone and the issues/delays related to typer77 are unique to his project and not the norm as hundreds of satisfied clients will attest. Typer77 contacted me this morning and demanded I give him a refund in which I responded within minutes "All I can do is apologize for dropping the ball in the past and see how we can best move forward to complete your project now that I am in a better position to do so." Although the coded solution is nearly complete with a few bugs, apparently my failure to meet his refund demands led to his post on this forum.

Most developers, at least the good ones, are extremely busy and have multiple projects going so occasionally some work gets delayed. Most of my fellow consultants, like me, are conscientious, hard working professionals that put in long hours helping clients all over the globe to keep everyone happy as this will lead to repeat business and referrals. But make no mistake; if a client significantly modifies the requirements of the project, the developer is in his/her right to ask for more funding to cover the extra development time. I will give typer77 the same advice I give others that might be frustrated at some point with their developer . . . talk to them! As I communicated to typer77 this morning before his post, I stand ready to resolve the remaining bugs and I have already taken steps to deploy another PC to get around the technical issues experienced in the past.

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  #55 (permalink)
 Peter2150 
Washington DC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Posts: 210 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 110
Thanks Received: 117

I have used Mark Whitmark on a couple of projects and have been very happy with the results. I met him via work he was doing for a much larger client who was very happy with his work.

Pete

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  #56 (permalink)
 
whitmark's Avatar
 whitmark   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 13 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 28


Peter2150 View Post
I have used Mark Whitmark on a couple of projects and have been very happy with the results. I met him via work he was doing for a much larger client who was very happy with his work.

Pete

Thanks Pete for your kind words! I've heard from several supportive clients that wonder why typer77 didn't count to ten before making his post, particularly since we were exchanging emails earlier that day. Btw, typer77's relatively minor issue with this strategy was fixed and emailed to him the day after his original post.

Whitmark

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  #57 (permalink)
 pcijoin 
flushing, new york, usa
 
Posts: 5 since Nov 2011

NT certification on partners is a joke...


NJAMC View Post
Understood,

To me it isn't clear what Certified means. It doesn't sound like they recommend this vendor, but they are certified. This might be a simple process of filling out paper work and/or passing a competency test on the NT7 platform.

You may want to ask NT what it takes to be certified?

Unfortunately, Strategies are only as good as the requirements stated and there is a good shoot something was not stated. I get asked by people all the time if they can hire me to write their strategy, I refuse as there is a good chance they will not be happy with the result.

I have worked with people if I think they have a good and unique approach for free (partners if you will), but really don't feel people new to autotrading should be contracting services to write a strategy unless they can provide documented rules and charts where the strategy is manually run (paper & pencil) and the coder agrees and guarantees the result. Otherwise, keep your expectations low, that they will be multiple iterations.

I know this is painful experience for you, but thank you for sharing as it may help others think twice about hiring a consultant for Strategy development. Although it probably already exists on futures.io (formerly BMT), having an Indicator customized or written is probably less risky.

Just my two cents...


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  #58 (permalink)
 crossover 
Brussels Belgium
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 140 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 396
Thanks Received: 326


pcijoin View Post
NT certification on partners is a joke...

I did construct an idea of a strategy and askt Tyler MOORE to realize that strategy for me. At first we did talk on Skype on the idea ( on my request ) and later he made the strategy exactly how i wanted it. My request was detailed and i did sent him sreenpictures of charts of what i wanted. Tyler kept me informed about the progress and the delivery date of the strategy. After receiving the strat i even requested to add and to modify several things. He did all that for no supplement fee. After delivery i had all the time i needed to test the strategy out. The strategy did work exactly as i wanted. It was a job well done and even now, when needed he is coding for me what i want. I was never dissepointed in his work and he has my full confidence.

my advice:
I guess, as most things in live, you have to talk to the person in question and to explain whats wrong or not working. Have a meeting on Skype or on the Phone.
making public that one or another is no good will not solve the problem and the BM memeber has, as most of time, only one side of the story.

Succes with your trading

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  #59 (permalink)
 
NJAMC's Avatar
 NJAMC 
Atkinson, NH USA
Market Wizard
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 8/TensorFlow
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures, CL, ES, ZB
Posts: 1,970 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 3,037
Thanks Received: 2,394

I have not read all posts in this thread, but it is on of the reasons I don't code for hire.

The fact of the matter is that your results will vary. Without the customer producing an extensive software requirements document that is agreed upon by the coder, it is not clear to me that either party has the same expectation as the other. I am sure the hired programmer does solicit more feedback from the customer (creeping featurism as called in my industry), but even then do both parties still share the same vision. Is the specification for the end product well understood by both parties (and the same). Has the customer put in vague requirements assuming the programmer will "figure it out".

The fact of the matter is, when you hire a programmer, you can only expect them to meet your disclosed specification and not your expectations. If it was that easy, I would hire a programmer to write me a "profitable strategy". This is clearly not enough information for a programmer to work with to meet your expectation, I am sure this project would get rejected, but there are less obvious examples of this as well.

So, if you hire a coder, make sure you have clear specification. These a coder can commit to match, your expectations of the end result is not something in their control. Some programmers will and can work with Gray "Specs" and this is a risk to them and their reputation, but they also understand if you are hiring a programmer, you may not know what they need as "design inputs" to accomplish your end goals. This does put both parties as risk in the project, but cannot be avoided in all cases, make sure expectations are the same with both parties and documented.

Nil per os
-NJAMC [Generic Programmer]

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  #60 (permalink)
 
eDanny's Avatar
 eDanny 
East Rochester, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Posts: 329 since Jul 2009
Thanks Given: 18
Thanks Received: 425



NJAMC View Post
The fact of the matter is, when you hire a programmer, you can only expect them to meet your disclosed specification and not your expectations. If it was that easy, I would hire a programmer to write me a "profitable strategy". This is clearly not enough information for a programmer to work with to meet your expectation, I am sure this project would get rejected, but there are less obvious examples of this as well.

Let me chime in on this old thread. The above is so true. I had a client who didn't want to pay for the coded indicator because it gave results the client didn't like. I had a hard time explaining that is was working exactly according to the specified rules and that I couldn't guarantee the results would meet their expectations (kind of like making sure a strategy is profitable). Eventually I was paid for the 'bad' indicator and fortunately I have done more work for this client since.

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