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Scammed by Ninja Trader certified Consultant
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Scammed by Ninja Trader certified Consultant

  #41 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,260 since May 2010
Thanks: 153 given, 1,890 received


rusko View Post
Well, many people have to know the TRUTH about The Ninja Trader Certified consultants and the poor support we get from Ninja Trader, when we have problems with developers!

The truth is that our consultants are a highly professional group of individuals and your one bad experience does not warrant your negative generalization. Tyler has been a dedicated NinjaTrader partner for a very long time and our mutual clients have had nothing but positive feedback for him. You yourself sent my team praise for your experience with Tyler not even a week ago?
As for your assertion that we gave you bad support in this case, that could not be further from the truth. My team has acted as an arbiter between you and Tyler delicately trying to foster a resolution but the short story is that you did not like any of the compromises he gave you and proceeded to threaten him with negative publicity after which he decided that he would not longer deal with you. Bridge burned.

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  #42 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
los angeles
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: cl
 
Sunil P's Avatar
 
Posts: 292 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 427 given, 175 received

Happy Easter folks.

May the Light of Christ burn through this Mammon we play with at no end...

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  #43 (permalink)
Administrator: Retired Backtester
 Vendor: speedytradingservers.com 
Rennes France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
sam028's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,366 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 3,573 given, 3,982 received


Please be careful with what you are writing.
This coder has maybe done something wrong, and his answer is maybe not appropriate, but this can happen on both sides.
Like few others here I'm coding strategies for guys, and had to deal numerous times with:
- bugs on my side (nobody is perfect ),
- wrong definition from the customer,
- customer changing specifications after each delivery,
- ...
I know it's very hard for the coders to deal with traders, mainly with traders who never did this kind of things (project specifications).
I don't say it's the case here, but this is what we see all the time.
What I'm usually doing, with potentially unhappy customers, or when I understand it will take weeks to really understand what they want: I don't take the job, or refund everything if I already starts and delivered something.
This is what should be done here but the coder here, but it's also not great to spend hours on something, and don't get paid at all.

I had a "problem" like this with a futures.io (formerly BMT) member: creating a complex strategy, which was working. Then he asked to add few "simple" things, which were in fact very hard to do and to debug. I spent dozen of hours to find what was wrong with the new functionalities (that was only undocumented/unsupported Ninja functions), and when I finally found where was the problem, the customer did not want his stuff anymore (means $0 for me)!

Now, maybe the coder himself could explain his own point of view ?

Success requires no deodorant! (Sun Tzu)
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  #44 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
SOFIA BULGARIA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader, RTrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 26 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received


NinjaTrader View Post
our mutual clients have had nothing but positive feedback for him

Well, now you have a negative feedback! The reality is that my project was a little bit complicated and he just COULDNīT DO IT! this is the undisputed TRUTH about this story! He didnīt fulfill his promise about the script, nor he fulfiled his promise about the moneyback guarantee. those two are FACTS andUNDISPUTED TRUTH.

Another TRUTH is that your team couldnīt make anything about that. I still do not have a fixed script, nor any money and on top of that he is still one of your consultants and next time when a guy like me purchase him a more complicated project, the result will be the same.

This thread is started, because people has to know the truth and they have to have the right expectations when they have to pickup a consultant from your list.

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  #45 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
SOFIA BULGARIA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader, RTrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 26 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received


sam028 View Post
Please be careful with what you are writing.
This coder has maybe done something wrong, and his answer is maybe not appropriate, but this can happen on both sides.
Like few others here I'm coding strategies for guys, and had to deal numerous times with:
- bugs on my side (nobody is perfect ),
- wrong definition from the customer,
- customer changing specifications after each delivery,
- ...
I know it's very hard for the coders to deal with traders, mainly with traders who never did this kind of things (project specifications).
I don't say it's the case here, but this is what we see all the time.
What I'm usually doing, with potentially unhappy customers, or when I understand it will take weeks to really understand what they want: I don't take the job, or refund everything if I already starts and delivered something.
This is what should be done here but the coder here, but it's also not great to spend hours on something, and don't get paid at all.

I had a "problem" like this with a futures.io (formerly BMT) member: creating a complex strategy, which was working. Then he asked to add few "simple" things, which were in fact very hard to do and to debug. I spent dozen of hours to find what was wrong with the new functionalities (that was only undocumented/unsupported Ninja functions), and when I finally found where was the problem, the customer did not want his stuff anymore (means $0 for me)!

Now, maybe the coder himself could explain his own point of view ?

Thank You for your post, it is realy precious and 100% related to this thread.

The same thing happened with us, I asked him for new functionalities(it is described in my 1st post) and he was thinking, that the bugs come from the new functionalities. Since we were in a fight already, he didnīt want to proceed, refunded me the money for the add ons and said that he lefts me with the first version of the script that I was happy with! OK, I totaly agree with that, but we found that the 1st version has to be debugged and it is still in his obligation to fix that(exactly as you described), but he refuses to do that and doesnīt answer to my e-mails.

We alsow tried another thing, since he is offended to me, than to start communication with my friend whos money where alsow in this project, but Tyle refuses communication with him alsow ..

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  #46 (permalink)
Elite Member
New Braunfels, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 127 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 932 given, 19 received

All feedback can't be positive


NJAMC View Post
@DionysusToast,

Well put, this is why I definately don't recommend people contracting out services for a Strategy. The coder will code what they were asked but the Strategy may not work as expected. The customers expectation is the code will work, and the coder needs to keep going until they fix it so it is profitable. The issue might be the concept doesn't work in practice but in theory. Bots are new to the masses, so there are many things that can go wrong.

There are many of us out there looking for a great bot, and still looking. I would say now, there are bots that do well during certain days but fail on others. There are a few ultra concervative Bots that might be safe in the long run, but profits a commenserate to risk.


rusko View Post
Well, now you have a negative feedback! The reality is that my project was a little bit complicated and he just COULDNīT DO IT! this is the undisputed TRUTH about this story! He didnīt fulfill his promise about the script, nor he fulfiled his promise about the moneyback guarantee. those two are FACTS andUNDISPUTED TRUTH.

Another TRUTH is that your team couldnīt make anything about that. I still do not have a fixed script, nor any money and on top of that he is still one of your consultants and next time when a guy like me purchase him a more complicated project, the result will be the same.

This thread is started, because people has to know the truth and they have to have the right expectations when they have to pickup a consultant from your list.

Just my 2 cents: I used Mooretech also and he did not deliver. I just moved on. On the positive side, Art from Trading Studies did a perfect job. So there are good guys out there.

Eensor

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  #47 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,208 given, 4,293 received


rusko View Post
Thank You for your post, it is realy precious and 100% related to this thread.

The same thing happened with us, I asked him for new functionalities(it is described in my 1st post) and he was thinking, that the bugs come from the new functionalities. Since we were in a fight already, he didnīt want to proceed, refunded me the money for the add ons and said that he lefts me with the first version of the script that I was happy with! OK, I totaly agree with that, but we found that the 1st version has to be debugged and it is still in his obligation to fix that(exactly as you described), but he refuses to do that and doesnīt answer to my e-mails.

We alsow tried another thing, since he is offended to me, than to start communication with my friend whos money where alsow in this project, but Tyle refuses communication with him alsow ..

@rusko

I reached an agreement with a programmer for a custom job at a mutually agreed to price. The project ran into unforeseen problems. The programmer was getting very frustrated. I sent him additional funds and he made the program work.

Did I pay more than I had agreed to? Yes

Do I have a program that still works? Yes

If I contact him today, will he help me? Yes

At this point you no longer have the option I had.

Going forward:

1. I would suggest you turn down the heat so you don't scare off others that may be willing to help you out.

2. I'm not sure it is realistic to expect another professional programmer to clean up someone else's mess for free , especially since you have posted how much money you gave to the first programmer for code you are unhappy with. Translation: Be prepared to spend more money.

3. If board members offer to help you, accept their assistance and be gracious. Translation: Tell them thank you and quit screaming "All Programmers are scum".

4. Get 3 quotes before awarding work to a contractor.

5. I wish you success in your future endeavors.

Regards,
TMFT

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #48 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
los angeles
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: cl
 
Sunil P's Avatar
 
Posts: 292 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 427 given, 175 received

yep those fricking arrows work well if you tinker them a little...


+1

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  #49 (permalink)
 Vendor: tradersnewsnetwork.com 
Navarre FL US
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja, TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

Tyler Moore

I have used Tyler for several projects - some very simple and some very complicated. He has been professional and delivered on all of them. He has always worked with me to resolve any issues and the code he has delivered has worked very well. I have asked for quotes from other programmers and they either send you an agreement that says they now "own" the code or upon further investigation are "programmers" that also sell trading software. It is difficult to share trading ideas with a programmer that sells trading programs. Tyler is a programmer that works with you to develop your trading ideas.

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  #50 (permalink)
Elite Member
East Coast
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ
 
Posts: 125 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 55 given, 81 received


I've worked on some simple things as favors for friends even though I only know what little I know by picking through other people's code.

After a while I asked them to write out the logic in pseudo-code, because they invariably would leave out things. After looking through what they wrote, I would usually ask "but what if..." to try and fill in the holes before even starting.

It was pretty frustrating, but I wasn't getting paid, so there was never a dispute.

If the code is well-written and commented, you may be able to pick through it and isolate/correct where the error(s) occur. Since it is using some undocumented features, that's going to require deeper digging.

It might be worth it though, because then you will be less reliant on an external source to code your ideas.

Good luck.

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