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Need Programmer to Write Ninja Strategy
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Need Programmer to Write Ninja Strategy

  #11 (permalink)
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rogerf View Post
Personally, I have never had much luck with programmers who weren't extremely talented AND also very experienced, knowledgable traders themselves. Hard combo to find but well worth the effort. A coder of that caliber can spot weaknesses in your system and also offer helpful improvement advice. If the system isn't overly complicated or subjective, some good coders will probably do it for free.

Your methodology needs to be very mechanical. You can't code gut feeling guesswork. I think you'll find that 99.9% of coded strategies just don't hold up...if they ever work at all...so be prepared. Hope you hit the jackpot with it so good luck and keep us posted.

Roger

Agree Roger...the only problem is that many customers I've had have a hard time accepting that their system has weaknesses. Generally those weaknesses are pretty easy to see from the outset without writing a single line of code. I can't tell you how many times I've had to break the news to them that they are cherry picking or whatever and they really don't believe me. For example, they want a simple moving average crossover to work and they just don't. If they get past the idea that their plan is flawed, then they ask what if we add another moving average or an oscillator or a kitchen sink or dog poop or ...

I have to admit, I write a lot of code for myself and I fall prey to that mentality as well.

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  #12 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I beg to differ with your comment. I don't think your methodology needs to be VERY mechanical. It all depends on the basic premises at the base of your framework. Programming emotive decisions is not that complicated if you know a few basic concepts. We were doing this kind of programming back in 2000 using a very basic language named Lingo from Macromedia. I cooperated with a very creative person on coding such intelligent scripts to mimic the way we think. Some examples are located here:

Emotive decision making 1

In other words, coding a subjective system is indeed possible or not as complicated as you might think.

That's extremely interesting, indeed. You are definitely unique. I've seen so many traders who develop a trading method that they believe is mechanical, but when faced with two identical signals in identical conditions, they do one thing one day and the opposite the next because they had a "gut feeling" that the market would go their way so they changed the rules just this one time. Or they add an indicator on the fly.

I'm absolutely astounded that you can duplicate that traders decisions precicely and that it's not that complicated. I could grasp that ability easily if there are rules and any trader following those rules would have the same result (allowing for slippage and differing commissions, of course). But when one trader out of the blue decides to use a 3 tick stop because he "thinks" that's going to be enough when he usually uses a more generous stop with better win potential, you can code those spur of the moment emotional decisions. I don't think I've ever even heard of any coder who's able to do that.

I'm not sure of the profitability value that a code would have that made Artificial Emotional random decisions, but it's sure fascinating that you've been able to do it. Can't imagine how but I'm definitely impressed.

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  #13 (permalink)
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@hcoffin1941 - I worked with a guy in vietnam who seems pretty good. He coded up some stuff for me - the one thing we mainly worked on was a semi-automated strategy and it works great, fit my requirements exactly.

It was somewhat simple - basically a strategy that provided buy and sell buttons to allow me to enter discretionarily and then use what is essentially a trailing stop based on the Supertrend indicator. Its a bit more complicated than that but he coded it all up for me and it was $300. PM if you're interested in more info.

I'd be curious to hear from the programmers on this thread whether or not that sounds like a reasonable price or not. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes - just trying to share my experience.

surly

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  #14 (permalink)
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Surly View Post
...
I'd be curious to hear from the programmers on this thread whether or not that sounds like a reasonable price or not. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes - just trying to share my experience.
...

A bit hard to say without all the details, but it's a reasonable price for this kind of work.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Surly View Post
@hcoffin1941 - I worked with a guy in vietnam who seems pretty good. He coded up some stuff for me - the one thing we mainly worked on was a semi-automated strategy and it works great, fit my requirements exactly.

It was somewhat simple - basically a strategy that provided buy and sell buttons to allow me to enter discretionarily and then use what is essentially a trailing stop based on the Supertrend indicator. Its a bit more complicated than that but he coded it all up for me and it was $300. PM if you're interested in more info.

I'd be curious to hear from the programmers on this thread whether or not that sounds like a reasonable price or not. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes - just trying to share my experience.

surly

Like Sam028 it's kind of hard to judge without more details but it sounds reasonable to me. That's at the top end of what I normally charge for writing scripts.

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  #16 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I beg to differ with your comment. I don't think your methodology needs to be VERY mechanical. It all depends on the basic premises at the base of your framework. Programming emotive decisions is not that complicated if you know a few basic concepts. We were doing this kind of programming back in 2000 using a very basic language named Lingo from Macromedia. I cooperated with a very creative person on coding such intelligent scripts to mimic the way we think. Some examples are located here:

Emotive decision making 1

In other words, coding a subjective system is indeed possible or not as complicated as you might think.

I read the article you posted and it takes me back to my early and brief days of programming in Lisp. I found that effort very intriguing. Actually developed a target selection system for the military. Just had to mention that because it really is one of my greatest efforts. It was never used but it sure was fun developing and kept me out of trouble.

My efforts to develop trading systems is more procedural than OO and so far the one I have online is working very well. But I would like to learn more about how to code subjectivity into my systems. Do you have any specific trading examples of subjectivity and how that is expressed in your coding style? Also, do you have other references that I can study?

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  #17 (permalink)
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thanks to you both - next time I need something coded I'll contact one of you. It was fine working with the guy in Vietnam but there were communication issues and also difficult to work around the different timezones...

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
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  #18 (permalink)
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Guys, I'm curious when you ask someone to program for you, is your trading strategy entirely revealed to that person?

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  #19 (permalink)
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jonc View Post
Guys, I'm curious when you ask someone to program for you, is your trading strategy entirely revealed to that person?

Only if you want it to work!!!

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  #20 (permalink)
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jonc View Post
Guys, I'm curious when you ask someone to program for you, is your trading strategy entirely revealed to that person?

It depends upon how you go about communicating your trading strategy to the programmer.

If you are a bit familiar with programming yourself and can do some basic stuff in it, then you can divide your trading strategy into different parts and get the separate works done by different programmers. And then combine them all for implementing it for yourself.

This way no single programmer will know the complete strategy and it will remain your secret.

There could be other ways also, to keep the REAL PART secret in a trading strategy.

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