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Anyone switch from TradeStation to MultiCharts?


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Anyone switch from TradeStation to MultiCharts?

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  #1 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I am wondering if anyone has made the switch from TradeStation to MultiCharts as their charting and trading platform and can offer their thoughts. I am strongly considering it for several reasons. Here is what use TradeStation for:
  1. Analysis
  2. Custom indicators
  3. Trade automation/algorithmic trading using custom strategies
  4. Back-testing, walk-forward optimization
If you can share any of your experiences and importantly, would you recommend a switch, I would greatly appreciate it!

~vmodus

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  #2 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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vmodus View Post
I am wondering if anyone has made the switch from TradeStation to MultiCharts as their charting and trading platform and can offer their thoughts. I am strongly considering it for several reasons. Here is what use TradeStation for:
  1. Analysis
  2. Custom indicators
  3. Trade automation/algorithmic trading using custom strategies
  4. Back-testing, walk-forward optimization
If you can share any of your experiences and importantly, would you recommend a switch, I would greatly appreciate it!

~vmodus

Maybe the question to answer is "will MC perform in the same manner that is causing you to leave Tradestation?"

After all, they are pretty similar - MC has historically been a clone of Tradestation...

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  #3 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
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kevinkdog View Post
Maybe the question to answer is "will MC perform in the same manner that is causing you to leave Tradestation?"

After all, they are pretty similar - MC has historically been a clone of Tradestation...

The main thing is that I don't want to go down the MultiChart path because the grass seems greener on the other side. Are there any 'gotchas', regrets, etc. I expect about the same functionality, but I don't know what I don't know. As they say, the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't.

We have multiple machines at our disposal and there are some analyses I would like to offload to headless machines. I would rather purchase a lifetime license of a product, rather than rent. I also have some uneasiness of "all eggs in one basket". Just an instinct, but it is there in the background, nagging me.

~vmodus

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  #4 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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vmodus View Post
The main thing is that I don't want to go down the MultiChart path because the grass seems greener on the other side. Are there any 'gotchas', regrets, etc. I expect about the same functionality, but I don't know what I don't know. As they say, the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't.

We have multiple machines at our disposal and there are some analyses I would like to offload to headless machines. I would rather purchase a lifetime license of a product, rather than rent. I also have some uneasiness of "all eggs in one basket". Just an instinct, but it is there in the background, nagging me.

~vmodus

Having a backup plan is a good idea. I own MC and it is my backup plan if something ever happens to Tradestation. For now, I use Tradestation data to feed MC.

If you have to go to another data provider, there is that additional cost.

I also have a 2nd Tradestation login, with delayed data, on a separate PC to run more "exotic" testing and analysis.

There are generally $250 discounts floating around for MC (I used a $500 one when I bought, but that was a rare deal).

MC also offer 30 day free demo. Try it out, see what you think.

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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kevinkdog View Post
I also have a 2nd Tradestation login, with delayed data, on a separate PC to run more "exotic" testing and analysis.



Yeah, as I think you know, I do some exotic testing as well. Thanks for your thoughts!

~vmodus

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  #6 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
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We were able to evaluate MultiCharts and thanks to @ocpb, we were able to get a huge discount during MC's Easter Sale.

The big thing for us was that we needed to be able to trade Forex, which is not an offering of TradeStation Securities in the US. MultiCharts linked with Interactive Brokers gives us the least path of resistance to get up and running, as we have at least one automated strategy for Forex. Linking MultiCharts was a little intimidating at first, but was actually very easy.

Optimization and backtesting of strategies will be interesting, since we use StratOp WFP, which is for TradeStation exclusively. We will have to do a lot of testing to see how this will all work. For now, TradeStation won't go away for us. The good news is that the one strategy we ported from TradeStation (EasyLanguage) to MultiCharts (PowerLanguage) was seamless.

So now our MultiCharts adventure begins.

~vmodus

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  #7 (permalink)
 TraderDoc007 
Detroit MI/USA
 
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Vmodus, I changed from Tradestation to Multicharts last year, after having been with Tradestation for over 20 years. I have never regretted the move, although it was forced owing to Tradestation closing all Canadian accounts. One really big difference that Iíve noticed is that Multicharts never freezes when the market gets extremely volatile, something that happened to me a few times in Tradestation. I do miss the app capabilities of TS, something that Iím trying to develop and emulate in MC.net at this time.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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TraderDoc007 View Post
Vmodus, I changed from Tradestation to Multicharts last year, after having been with Tradestation for over 20 years. I have never regretted the move, although it was forced owing to Tradestation closing all Canadian accounts. One really big difference that Iíve noticed is that Multicharts never freezes when the market gets extremely volatile, something that happened to me a few times in Tradestation. I do miss the app capabilities of TS, something that Iím trying to develop and emulate in MC.net at this time.

I thought they allowed current Canadians (Ontario) to stay, but you could not open new accounts? Is that true - they made you close existing accounts?

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 TraderDoc007 
Detroit MI/USA
 
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Yes, correct. I couldn't believe when they said they were closing all Canadian accounts, including Ontario.
But I'm actually very happy now with Multicharts, as the .NET really does open up some fun possibilities to play with.

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  #10 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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TraderDoc007 View Post
Vmodus, I changed from Tradestation to Multicharts last year, after having been with Tradestation for over 20 years. I have never regretted the move, although it was forced owing to Tradestation closing all Canadian accounts. One really big difference that Iíve noticed is that Multicharts never freezes when the market gets extremely volatile, something that happened to me a few times in Tradestation. I do miss the app capabilities of TS, something that Iím trying to develop and emulate in MC.net at this time.

Thanks a bunch for the response! I picked up a couple of lifetime licenses of MC during their Easter sale ($1997 for two), mainly because we have a couple of automated strategies written in EasyLanguage that we have developed specifically for forex, but cannot trade here in the US with the TradeStation platform (easily, at least). MultiCharts provided the path of least resistance.

My wife/partner has been working with it and she has no complaints. I had a couple of custom indicators that were not plug-and-play with PowerLanguage, but that is probably just me being a noob. Coming from an all-in-one solution (TS) to MC + data + broker seemed daunting, but it has been easier than I expected.

I have not had a a lot of time to work with MC due to other commitments, but I have been able to get TradeStation data in MC. The one cool feature that I am looking forward to trying is the Portfolio Trader for back-testing and walk-forward optimization. As we start trading multiple instruments with algo strategies, this will become important.

~vmodus

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  #11 (permalink)
 Hemmo 
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
 
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I found the MultiCharts free trial to be an excellent way to take a look at the platform.
The tech support team were very helpful in quickly getting me up and running with RT automated trades on an OANDA Demo account.
I had previously invested time, energy and money in eSignal and the associated scripts, so I was very cautious about doing it all again with a different platform. The MC team had no hesitation in extending the initial trial period for me to further evaluate the software.
As mentioned in the earlier posts, there are sale prices from to time. Any significant holiday in the US seems to be the trigger for the promotional pricing.
Like eSignal, you can choose from a variety of brokers and data providers.

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Etisan
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kevinkdog View Post
Having a backup plan is a good idea. I own MC and it is my backup plan if something ever happens to Tradestation. For now, I use Tradestation data to feed MC.

If you have to go to another data provider, there is that additional cost.

I also have a 2nd Tradestation login, with delayed data, on a separate PC to run more "exotic" testing and analysis.

There are generally $250 discounts floating around for MC (I used a $500 one when I bought, but that was a rare deal).

MC also offer 30 day free demo. Try it out, see what you think.


How do you/anyone find using Tradestation data into Multicharts works from a Multicharts persepctive? Any delays, freezes, missing data?

I was a Tradestation user about 10+ years ago before switching to Multicharts(+Rithmic) & now I'm thinking of going back to Tradestation as my main providor whilst keeping Multicharts as backup using Tradestation data.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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Etisan View Post
How do you/anyone find using Tradestation data into Multicharts works from a Multicharts persepctive? Any delays, freezes, missing data?

I was a Tradestation user about 10+ years ago before switching to Multicharts(+Rithmic) & now I'm thinking of going back to Tradestation as my main providor whilst keeping Multicharts as backup using Tradestation data.

I have never used MC for live trading, only backtesting with TS data.

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 jokertrader 
NYC, NY
 
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I too would be interested on quality and stability of TradeStation data as compared to Rithmic or CQG or TT


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 jwwjcw 
Washington DC
 
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I'm moving to Vancouver, BC in early 2021 (Covid permitting) and currently have a TradeStation account. I will become a permanent resident at some point. I was planning on keeping my address in the US. I'm now wondering how all that will work... Does anyone know who to contact at the Canadian CSA?

I have used MultiCharts in the past and will likely look to that as a solution should I be forced to give up TradeStation. I didn't care for the way they handled symbols but I've been spoiled by TradeStation. I did get good support when needed.

J

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 edgefirst 
Las Cruces, NM
 
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vmodus View Post
I am wondering if anyone has made the switch from TradeStation to MultiCharts as their charting and trading platform and can offer their thoughts. I am strongly considering it for several reasons. Here is what use TradeStation for:
  1. Analysis
  2. Custom indicators
  3. Trade automation/algorithmic trading using custom strategies
  4. Back-testing, walk-forward optimization
If you can share any of your experiences and importantly, would you recommend a switch, I would greatly appreciate it!

~vmodus

I have both and I use them for different purposes:
TradeStation: live trading (they are a one-stop shop so if anything happens there is no other party to blame); historical data (minute bars)

MultiCharts: faster in backtesting and optimization than TradeStation once the data is imported (connecting to TradeStation for historical data can be slow); portfolio backtesting and portfolio trading (not possible with TradeStation)

So if you are looking for a switch, what are the features that you feel are lacking or missing in TradeStation?

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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edgefirst View Post
I have both and I use them for different purposes:
TradeStation: live trading (they are a one-stop shop so if anything happens there is no other party to blame); historical data (minute bars)

MultiCharts: faster in backtesting and optimization than TradeStation once the data is imported (connecting to TradeStation for historical data can be slow); portfolio backtesting and portfolio trading (not possible with TradeStation)

So if you are looking for a switch, what are the features that you feel are lacking or missing in TradeStation?

Thanks! Wow, this was an old post. I purchased two MC licenses in the spring and have been using MC for forex trading and backtesting using my TS data. It has been a dream to work with. The big feature for me is the built-in Monte Carlo analysis. I try to build strategies without optimizable parameters, but the backtest engine, given that it is running in 64-bit, is incredibly fast, magnitudes faster than TS.

There are a few custom indicators and strategies that did not migrate from EasyLanguage to PowerLanguage, but I've been able to adapt them.

~vmodus

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 Jemo 
FLorida / USA
 
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vmodus View Post
Thanks! Wow, this was an old post. I purchased two MC licenses in the spring and have been using MC for forex trading and backtesting using my TS data. It has been a dream to work with. The big feature for me is the built-in Monte Carlo analysis. I try to build strategies without optimizable parameters, but the backtest engine, given that it is running in 64-bit, is incredibly fast, magnitudes faster than TS.

There are a few custom indicators and strategies that did not migrate from EasyLanguage to PowerLanguage, but I've been able to adapt them.


I just purchased MC license. What is the best way of learning how to transfer my TS code to MC and run backtesting and MC analysis? I am excited that MC is 64 bits and wont have the headaches that TS does.

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 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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vmodus View Post
Thanks! Wow, this was an old post. I purchased two MC licenses in the spring and have been using MC for forex trading and backtesting using my TS data. It has been a dream to work with. The big feature for me is the built-in Monte Carlo analysis. I try to build strategies without optimizable parameters, but the backtest engine, given that it is running in 64-bit, is incredibly fast, magnitudes faster than TS.

There are a few custom indicators and strategies that did not migrate from EasyLanguage to PowerLanguage, but I've been able to adapt them.

I just stumbled upon this thread, can you guys clarify a doubt? Is Multichart mainly interesting to develop trading system? is this the main reason why people are using multichart?
I just tried it once and I didn't like it at all but I had the feeling that I didn't reallly understand it. I am a completely discretionary trader using motivewave and Sierrachart.
Thanks for any answer.

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
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Jemo View Post
I just purchased MC license. What is the best way of learning how to transfer my TS code to MC and run backtesting and MC analysis? I am excited that MC is 64 bits and wont have the headaches that TS does.

Hey @Jemo , the best way is to learn by doing, IMHO. Copy and paste the code and see if it compiles.
  1. Open TradeStation Development Environment
  2. Open PowerLanguage Editor
  3. Open your indicator or strategy in TS
  4. Create a new indicator or 'signal' (strategy) in MC
  5. Copy the code in TS
  6. Paste the code in MC
  7. Compile (F3 key) to code [note: always use 'Fast Execution' as the compile option]
Hopefully it compiles without error.

Potential problem:

Error due to missing custom function(s)

Solution:
  1. Identify the missing function and open it in TS Dev Environment
  2. Create a new function in MC
  3. Copy (from TS) and paste the function code into MC
  4. Compile
I have had a few things not compile properly, but they were some more advanced things I was working on. All-in-all, about 98% of my code is compatible, but I have a lot of custom code. If you are using OOEL, you are out of luck. If you are using ADE, GlobalVariable (GV) or EL Collections, you will need to install the appropriate packages (see MultiCharts forums for details).

As far as learning how to do backtesting and the rest? I just kind of jump in and start doing it. If you can do it in TS, you can do it in MC, just a little different. If you come across any tutorials for backtesting and optimization, let me know.

~vmodus

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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SBtrader82 View Post
I just stumbled upon this thread, can you guys clarify a doubt? Is Multichart mainly interesting to develop trading system? is this the main reason why people are using multichart?
I just tried it once and I didn't like it at all but I had the feeling that I didn't reallly understand it. I am a completely discretionary trader using motivewave and Sierrachart.
Thanks for any answer.

Hey @SBtrader82 , there are a few reasons I have MC:
  • Easy transition from all the things we have built in TradeStation, due to code compatibility between the two platforms
  • 64-bt architecture is faster and less prone to crashing (I crashed maybe once in 20 months)
  • I think the tools for automation are a lot better than TS
  • It is a fail-safe if we ever ditch TS
  • Charting, data and broker options are a lot better than TS
I do not care for it for discretionary/chart trading, mainly because I find the rendering a little awkward. I don't trade manually, so it is not a huge deal. It may be how I'm using it. Still, the trading interface is pretty decent.

I like Sierra Chart for chart analysis and @snax seems to like it for trading (he recently started using it).

I hope this helps.

~vmodus

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 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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vmodus View Post
Hey @SBtrader82 , there are a few reasons I have MC:
  • Easy transition from all the things we have built in TradeStation, due to code compatibility between the two platforms
  • 64-bt architecture is faster and less prone to crashing (I crashed maybe once in 20 months)
  • I think the tools for automation are a lot better than TS
  • It is a fail-safe if we ever ditch TS
  • Charting, data and broker options are a lot better than TS
I do not care for it for discretionary/chart trading, mainly because I find the rendering a little awkward. I don't trade manually, so it is not a huge deal. It may be how I'm using it. Still, the trading interface is pretty decent.

I like Sierra Chart for chart analysis and @snax seems to like it for trading (he recently started using it).

I hope this helps.

Thanks a lot, yes I forgot to mention that I also used TS in the past, I tried it in sim for a couple of months, it was nightmare. TS was crashing at least twice per day.... I was having anger attacks. Jajaja
Sierrachart has never crashed in the last 3 years, but to build a system it's quite complicated, unless you want to code in C++.

Just to let you know, in Italy there is a famous trader who won the Larry trading championship (also known as Robin cup) 5 times. He uses Multicharts.


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  #23 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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SBtrader82 View Post
Just to let you know, in Italy there is a famous trader who won the Larry trading championship (also known as Robin cup) 5 times. He uses Multicharts.

Thanks, that is interesting to know. I'm guessing you are referring to Andrea Unger. His book on money management is being published in English in June, by Wiley.

~vmodus

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 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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Yes exactly, I am referring to Andrea Unger. Yes he is 100% systematic and for sure is a good guide for that.
Let me know what you think of his book. I read some pages of it that I found online and it looked interesting.

Have you ever considered using Matlab and Simulink? I code a lot in matlab and you can interface it with Interactive Brokers.
I never tried but I plan to do it in the future.

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 tr8er 
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Really? Andrea switched to MC? He used TradeNavigator for a very long time .

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thoughtful
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I switched from TS to MC. TS has alot of design flaws and some bugs, but it was workable, as I don't use any fancy features. I really wanted to be a loyal customer with TS, but then I had major problems: sometimes the data wouldn't load at all, and it would never save any data anymore (it used to) so everytime I opened the program it would have to reload all data, and it would tell me I needed an update even though I did not. Even uninstalling it (and manually deleting all leftover files and registry entries with "CCleaner") did not fix the problems. I contacted tech support, it takes them a few days to get back to me, then whenever they called it was too early in the morning (I was still sleeping), and they never answer the phone when I call them (terminal hold), so I never got to talk to anyone on the phone, so I just had to give up on them.

I also started worrying about the TS company itself because, they didn't fix any of the bugs I reported, and some others in their forum website said the same thing. And the last time I checked (2019) they were working on a new version, which they tell all new customers to use, but it's not even ready for beta-test yet. I know this because I started with their "new" version, and it was terrible, and more bugs started appearing so I installed their "old" version instead and used that which was fine for a long time (until the above mentioned problems started happening).

So MC has been a HUGE relief for me, although I went through ~3 months trying to get Rithmic data working (with my broker and MC support) to no avail, but thankfully CQG data has been working fine, so I've been using that. MC has a couple design oddities, but it's not broken, just a couple goofy things, like where you setup which type of chart to use (time, tick, volume, or range, etc) -- it's unintuitive. MC also has alot of minor bugs I've noticed, but I'm starting to report them, so hopefully they'll fix them, at least they are minor bugs. Although their latest version (14) seems to have some major bugs, but again, I'm working with them on one as of this writing, so I'm sure they'll fix that.

It seems like MC basically started with a TS foundation/code but revamped just about everything. It seems all the bad stuff from TS was removed or fixed. For example, TS's chart trader sidebar was horrendously bad designed and didn't work well, MC redid that much better. And TS wouldn't show order markers/arrows on your charts, but MC fixed that too. All sorts of TS problems -- gone or fixed. The easylanguage seems to be the same though, although I noticed MC improved on the code for plotting trendlines (they made it super easy to use), also MC's editor has a nice categorized list of all the easylanguage commands (which is very helpful). I actually learned how to code in NinjaTrader, but I still like using MC's easylanguage better.

BTW, MC has a nice "global crosshairs" cursor, whereby when you turn it on, wherever you click on your chart, it'll aligns all other charts (on that workspace) to the same time & price, so it makes it super easy to compare something on one chart to another -- I use it all the time. It's got a little minor bug that shows up now & then but I'm going to tell them about it soon so I assume they'll fix that.

So, I'm just thankful to have found anything that even works. IMO the trading software industry is not very polished / professional. I will say that NinjaTrader 8 looks pretty good to me though -- I tried their demo, but I decided to buy MC instead because I don't like how NinjaTrader has no "wrapper" for all the chart windows etc -- so if you minimize NT to get to your desktop to use another application, when you go to restore NT you can't -- you have to restore each chart/etc window separately -- I think they were nuts to make it like that -- that's my biggest gripe. Windows 10 apparently has a way to restore all the windows, but I don't use Windows 10, and hope I never have to. Also the NT8 builtin editor has alot of annoying bugs. MC does also though. TS's editor was perfect. NT8 programming script is harder to learn than easylanguage, but I did actually learn how to use it -- looking at builtin indicator code helped alot. I think NT8 dropped the ball a little bit on their script because I noticed a couple lacking areas, but no big deal I guess. I had some issues learning how to code with their demo, but I must say NT8's tech support was always fast to respond. NT8 does alot of things right, and keeps things simple, so congrats to them for their smart programmers, although their order placement system is a fairly lame design. I really wanted to buy NT8, but again, those "free floating" windows really drive me nuts. Maybe someday if they ever fix that, I'll consider buying their product.

I tried Sierra Chart's demo. I had high hopes, I love how they keep their install simple and try to avoid using bloated/buggy Windows code-components. But it's not very user friendly due to having tons of options all crammed into the same properties windows/tabs, with no explanation labels/tooltips, when most of the options could be put in an "advanced" section, so it confuses you right off the bat. And I couldn't get the data working, their own data provider is used in the demo, and that didn't work, plus more oddities I thought were bugs. I thought it was an extremely poor demo to give potential customers. So I just gave up on them. Maybe someday they'll polish up their product and get their data working reliably without any hassle. If they did that, I'd consider them.

Sidenote on Windows 10: I tried Windows 10 and it was a nightmare -- it was preinstalled on my brand new computer and it was severely broken after 1 week with very little use... there's so many insane design flaws too such as the horrible main menu. I'm a programmer and have been working with Windows for many years, and I can speak for 99% of all programmers -- we all HATE Windows. I actually use Linux for my personal computer, I only use Windows for my trading computer because I have to. Windows 3.11 (early 1990's) was awesome, that was the pinnacle of Windows. After that it went downhill and they made the "registry" which is completely stupid. And Windows is constantly running your harddrive (what is it doing all the time?! -- that's very suspicious!!!), and it self destructs over time, etc etc, lets all just admit it -- it's GARBAGE, from a company who's owner is pure evil (IMO). IDK what I'm going to do if the day ever comes when I can't use Win 7 anymore... I have a Win 10 license that came with my brand new computer but since I installed Win 7 on it, now the Win 10 is gone so IDK if I still have that license key, plus when you buy a new computer you don't get any install disks, so that's quite a ripoff. I think MysterShaft should refund everyones money for at least the past 3 versions. I think a special global task force should revamp Linux to make it as easy to install & uninstall apps like Windows 3.11 used to be, and then make that a world standard open-source free operating system, and MysteryShaft should be banned from making anymore software.

Anyways, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping MC will keep their product working for a long time.

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  #27 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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SBtrader82 View Post
Yes exactly, I am referring to Andrea Unger. Yes he is 100% systematic and for sure is a good guide for that.
Let me know what you think of his book. I read some pages of it that I found online and it looked interesting.

Have you ever considered using Matlab and Simulink? I code a lot in matlab and you can interface it with Interactive Brokers.
I never tried but I plan to do it in the future.

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No. For now EasyLanguage and PowerLanguage are sufficient on my platforms. I get my expected outcomes. I would only learn another platform, especially a math/engineering heavy one like Matlab, for academic purposes.

~vmodus

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 SBtrader82 
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vmodus View Post
No. For now EasyLanguage and PowerLanguage are sufficient on my platforms. I get my expected outcomes. I would only learn another platform, especially a math/engineering heavy one like Matlab, for academic purposes.

don't think that Matlab is difficult, it is a lot easier than many programming languages. Honestly I think that it is easier than most of the EasyLanguages that come with platforms.
Matlab is built around matrices and arrays and you can do whatever you want with them BUT if you want to make some experiments to understand markets or probabilities, you won't need them.
For example I built a small simulator to understand risk reward and for that purpose Matlab is even easier than excel.

By the way there is an open source version of Matlab which works almost exactly the same and it is called SciLab. I use that because Matlab is very expensive.
You just gave me an idea, I could make a video for Futures.io users who think that Matlab is difficult and I could explain them how to make some experiments. What do you think?

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  #29 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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SBtrader82 View Post
You just gave me an idea, I could make a video for Futures.io users who think that Matlab is difficult and I could explain them how to make some experiments. What do you think?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Personally, I think a video would be great. You may want to contact one of the moderators to see how to best approach this.

~vmodus

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 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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I think I will just make a very easy video on youTube, I am not an expert on Matlab and I never tried Simulink but I think that if someone wants to make some easy experiments just to understand the math behind risk reward etc... maybe it's useful.
I will think about it

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leescharf
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Can you also use your TS brokerage account with MC?

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 SBtrader82 
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tr8er View Post
Really? Andrea switched to MC? He used TradeNavigator for a very long time .

yes, this is what I understood from a video in his channel called "Trading Sistematico o Automatico: Metatrader o Multicharts?". He debates whether you should be using metatrader or multichart and he explains why he is using Multichart.
Honestly I have a completely different approach since he is a systematic trader while I am completely discretionary, so I don't know much about his system, however he looks like a serious person so I would like to use the same platform he uses, if I were systematic.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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SBtrader82 View Post
yes, this is what I understood from a video in his channel called "Trading Sistematico o Automatico: Metatrader o Multicharts?". He debates whether you should be using metatrader or multichart and he explains why he is using Multichart.
Honestly I have a completely different approach since he is a systematic trader while I am completely discretionary, so I don't know much about his system, however he looks like a serious person so I would like to use the same platform he uses, if I were systematic.

Last time I talked to him he was using Trade Navigator, Tradestation and Multicharts.

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leescharf
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leescharf View Post
Can you also use your TS brokerage account with MC?

You cannot use your TS brokerage... only data. BUT not Level 2 data... that has to come directly from your broker.

That said... I am now in the process of switching from TS to MC. Looking for a broker recommend! IB? Rithmic?

TIA!

-Lee S.

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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leescharf View Post
You cannot use your TS brokerage... only data. BUT not Level 2 data... that has to come directly from your broker.

That said... I am now in the process of switching from TS to MC. Looking for a broker recommend! IB? Rithmic?

TIA!

-Lee S.

We looked into IB for forex and futures, but their application process was a nightmare, from our limited experience. After about 2 weeks (and finally getting approved) we decided to stay with TS Securities for futures and went with OANDA for forex. This was about six months ago, when they were getting buried in new applications, like many other brokers at the time. We also had pretty flaky data connections with them, losing connection multiple times throughout the day, every day. As an automated trader, this was unacceptable.

We trade business accounts, so it might be different for personal accounts. Try out their demo system first and be ready for a lot of friction in getting your account setup.

~vmodus

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leescharf
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vmodus View Post
We looked into IB for forex and futures, but their application process was a nightmare, from our limited experience. After about 2 weeks (and finally getting approved) we decided to stay with TS Securities for futures and went with OANDA for forex. This was about six months ago, when they were getting buried in new applications, like many other brokers at the time. We also had pretty flaky data connections with them, losing connection multiple times throughout the day, every day. As an automated trader, this was unacceptable.

We trade business accounts, so it might be different for personal accounts. Try out their demo system first and be ready for a lot of friction in getting your account setup.

Thanks vmodus... but I am switching to MultiCharts and can't use TS as a broker.

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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Thanks vmodus... but I am switching to MultiCharts and can't use TS as a broker.

That is great! MC is a much better platform, at least for my type of trading, than TS. I'm sure it will work well for you. Good luck finding a good broker!

~vmodus

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Labe
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Personally recommend switching plus TS can just get buggy to death at times

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James11
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I too find TS very buggy and quite frankly ancient in regards to their system structure and lacking of newer features many other platforms are offering.

This is a great thread.

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 ShadowFox 
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Made the switch for backtesting and holy cow, what a difference! What took 4-5 days to backtest in TS took 17 hrs in MC. Will pay for itself tenfold in developing ideas. Some aspects of MC Portfolio Trader are not as useful as TS Portfolio Maestro, but it might just be me getting used to it. I am not a fan of how MC handles custom symbol lists but I am making it work. The possibility of custom fitness functions in MC has opened up a whole new world for testing.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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Made the switch for backtesting and holy cow, what a difference! What took 4-5 days to backtest in TS took 17 hrs in MC. Will pay for itself tenfold in developing ideas. Some aspects of MC Portfolio Trader are not as useful as TS Portfolio Maestro, but it might just be me getting used to it. I am not a fan of how MC handles custom symbol lists but I am making it work. The possibility of custom fitness functions in MC has opened up a whole new world for testing.

I'd love to try a comparison test here, I have both. I've never had a TS test close to 4-5 days, that is why I am curious.

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 ShadowFox 
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kevinkdog View Post
I'd love to try a comparison test here, I have both. I've never had a TS test close to 4-5 days, that is why I am curious.

Thanks Kevin! Good to know that I have created a more complex algo than the algo king himself . I know you preach algo's are supposed to be simple!

But on a serious note, trust me it is a very simple strategy. Where it gets messy and heavily loaded is its backtesting over 300 instruments for multiple years on 5 min bars. It is an equities strategy that I am developing and the key is portfolio selection. So a lot of code that is in the backtesting strategy (not in real time) is filtering out certain stocks for certain dates based on certain criteria that is pre determined (long way of saying its complicated and over 700 lines of code ). So even though I may only trade a certain stock for 20 days with the strat and I have 5 years of data loaded, the iteration is looking at that stock over 5 years doing nothing for most of the time. This is the only way I have been able to work with such a strategy on a larger scale. Obviously it gets much easier if I break each instrument down individually, or even each portfolio timeframe individually then somehow piece everything together to get the best inputs for the whole range. This is a lengthy portfolio strategy and this is the only way I can figure out how to do it

This was my attempt at reaching out for help from the community but not sure a lot of people are backtesting systems like this so I found a solution that worked and ran with it. On TS, 4-5 days later I get results

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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ShadowFox View Post
Thanks Kevin! Good to know that I have created a more complex algo than the algo king himself . I know you preach algo's are supposed to be simple!

But on a serious note, trust me it is a very simple strategy. Where it gets messy and heavily loaded is its backtesting over 300 instruments for multiple years on 5 min bars. It is an equities strategy that I am developing and the key is portfolio selection. So a lot of code that is in the backtesting strategy (not in real time) is filtering out certain stocks for certain dates based on certain criteria that is pre determined (long way of saying its complicated and over 700 lines of code ). So even though I may only trade a certain stock for 20 days with the strat and I have 5 years of data loaded, the iteration is looking at that stock over 5 years doing nothing for most of the time. This is the only way I have been able to work with such a strategy on a larger scale. Obviously it gets much easier if I break each instrument down individually, or even each portfolio timeframe individually then somehow piece everything together to get the best inputs for the whole range. This is a lengthy portfolio strategy and this is the only way I can figure out how to do it

This was my attempt at reaching out for help from the community but not sure a lot of people are backtesting systems like this so I found a solution that worked and ran with it. On TS, 4-5 days later I get results

Ahh, Portfolio Maestro. I've never used it, I use the Optimization API directly to run multiple symbols.

I was initially thinking it was one optimization, but now I see I was mistaken!

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  #44 (permalink)
 Vacationer 
Sarasota, Florida
 
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vmodus View Post
We looked into IB for forex and futures, but their application process was a nightmare, from our limited experience. After about 2 weeks (and finally getting approved) we decided to stay with TS Securities for futures and went with OANDA for forex. This was about six months ago, when they were getting buried in new applications, like many other brokers at the time. We also had pretty flaky data connections with them, losing connection multiple times throughout the day, every day. As an automated trader, this was unacceptable.

We trade business accounts, so it might be different for personal accounts. Try out their demo system first and be ready for a lot of friction in getting your account setup.


Vmodus,

That is a great post that benefited a lot of people who had the same thought I am sure

I'm exactly at the same shoes you were in when you started this. Looking for a back up for TS and intended to go with IB. Also run only automated strategies.

After reading this last post about the IB application and then going with another broker I became intrigued .
Not sure if you still stayed with IB after the application was approved? When you said the connection was flakey throughout the day, was that with OANDA or IB? And was it the broker connection or the data connection?

And one last question if I may, did you have "disconnected from trade server" issues with TS. Usually it shows up in the messages log. I get these messages about once a week, but it usually reconnects within a second or two and that doesn't cause any problems. But some times the disconnect will last like 20 minutes or so, and this will screw every thing up in the Tcashe Data base that holds positions data as the charts go into data download . And it is not an internet issue since I have back up power supplies for all internet parts. Your answer might help me isolate the source of that problem. I have couple of PC's running different accounts and they both report the same problem almost exactly the same time to the second, and some times on different times.

Thanks very much for the post and the time you give for answering my many questions.

Vacationer

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  #45 (permalink)
 Fonz 
Miami, Fl
 
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I did it.. And then I kept Tradestation.
I am not a coder at all and I trade discretionary only. So, I liked so much my charts on Tradestation that I wanted the same for IB (and a serious frontend), and I bought a Multicharts license.
Well, even if I don't use any automated strategy, here what I think if you want to switch from TS to MC:

Pros for the switch:
- A lot of other available brokers
- Similar concept, so the switch is easy
- Backtesting capabilities (faster and easier)
- A little "lighter" than TS (less resources)
- 64-bit
- The easylanguage version is still a little compatible with TS
- I think the .Net version is more open for new developments, it is just a different platform.

Cons:
- You will never have the same feeling with MC. In a way, MC is more functional.
- TS brokerage is not that bad
- Customer service with MC
- TS and MC developed new "things" (don't ask me) that make them less and less compatible.
- You will lose years of great posts on a huge TS forum
- I never was comfortable running MC alone, I always felt the need to keep TWS (IB native platform). Perhaps it is just me.

If you have a problem with Tradestation brokerage, the switch would certainly helps. If you have a problem with the platform, I am not so sure.
Hope this helps!

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
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Vacationer View Post
Not sure if you still stayed with IB after the application was approved? When you said the connection was flakey throughout the day, was that with OANDA or IB? And was it the broker connection or the data connection?

And one last question if I may, did you have "disconnected from trade server" issues with TS. Usually it shows up in the messages log. I get these messages about once a week, but it usually reconnects within a second or two and that doesn't cause any problems. But some times the disconnect will last like 20 minutes or so, and this will screw every thing up in the Tcashe Data base that holds positions data as the charts go into data download . And it is not an internet issue since I have back up power supplies for all internet parts. Your answer might help me isolate the source of that problem. I have couple of PC's running different accounts and they both report the same problem almost exactly the same time to the second, and some times on different times.

Thanks very much for the post and the time you give for answering my many questions.

Vacationer

@Vacationer , I am glad I helped. I hope you enjoy Sarasota as much as I have in the past, which is one of my favorite towns in the US.

Here are you answers, one by one:
Not sure if you still stayed with IB after the application was approved?
No. I believe they have an option to cancel the application before funding, which is what we did. We were approved, but they data connection issue was a deal breaker. My wife actually handled the application process, but I could hear from her desk all of the disconnections/reconnections.

When you said the connection was flakey throughout the day, was that with OANDA or IB? And was it the broker connection or the data connection?
IB. Since IB was providing the data, I assume it was one and the same, but I cannot be certain. You have to have their application running on your PC for the connections.

And one last question if I may, did you have "disconnected from trade server" issues with TS.
Rarely, maybe once a month, maybe less than that. For us that is more likely caused by something other than TS, such as an ISP issue or power disruption. There was a disruption/outage with respect to data a few weeks ago, but I am not sure what happened and it was resolved fairly quickly. We run TS on a virtual machine (VM) through Azure (Microsoft) for our live trading. Disconnections on the VM are pretty much nonexistent.

I hope this helps!

~vmodus

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 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
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Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
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Fonz View Post
I did it.. And then I kept Tradestation.
I am not a coder at all and I trade discretionary only. So, I liked so much my charts on Tradestation that I wanted the same for IB (and a serious frontend), and I bought a Multicharts license.
Well, even if I don't use any automated strategy, here what I think if you want to switch from TS to MC:

Pros for the switch:
- A lot of other available brokers
- Similar concept, so the switch is easy
- Backtesting capabilities (faster and easier)
- A little "lighter" than TS (less resources)
- 64-bit
- The easylanguage version is still a little compatible with TS
- I think the .Net version is more open for new developments, it is just a different platform.

Cons:
- You will never have the same feeling with MC. In a way, MC is more functional.
- TS brokerage is not that bad
- Customer service with MC
- TS and MC developed new "things" (don't ask me) that make them less and less compatible.
- You will lose years of great posts on a huge TS forum
- I never was comfortable running MC alone, I always felt the need to keep TWS (IB native platform). Perhaps it is just me.

If you have a problem with Tradestation brokerage, the switch would certainly helps. If you have a problem with the platform, I am not so sure.
Hope this helps!

Thanks for sharing. I have had the opposite experience with customer service, with MC being much better than TS, both in response time and in solving problems. TS has added some support resources who roam their forums and answer questions more quickly than before, but reaching someone and resolving an issue can be a multi-day experience. I had an issue with MC (caused by me....duh), that their chat representative was able to resolve in about 5 minutes. That is my experience with both and I do use both daily.

~vmodus

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  #48 (permalink)
 Vacationer 
Sarasota, Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, TS
Broker: TD Ameritrade, IB, TS
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 25 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 31 given, 13 received

Vmodus,

Thanks for the quick reply, really appreciated.

I thought about asking if you used a VM/VPS for your TS auto trading, but you generously answered that in your reply.

I have had an IB account for years so the switch won't be an issue, time wise. My issue with IB is their lack of tic data.

So I was wondering if it is possible to use IB as a broker, and still get data from TS if that is feasible. Have you tried to get data from TS on your set up?

Since this would be my first time to use a platform not provided by my broker, I don't know how the data provider connection is made but I'm assuming it is via a login. And was thinking that using TS as data provider in MC would be possible via a login with an existing TS account.

Thanks again for your quick reply. Glad to hear you had a better luck with MC's customer service. TS now takes weeks to reply to an email.

Vacationer

PS: I agree with you 100%, Sarasota is really a nice place to live on the gulf water

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  #49 (permalink)
 Vacationer 
Sarasota, Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, TS
Broker: TD Ameritrade, IB, TS
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 25 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 31 given, 13 received


Fonz View Post
I did it.. And then I kept Tradestation.
I am not a coder at all and I trade discretionary only. So, I liked so much my charts on Tradestation that I wanted the same for IB (and a serious frontend), and I bought a Multicharts license.
Well, even if I don't use any automated strategy, here what I think if you want to switch from TS to MC:

Pros for the switch:
- A lot of other available brokers
- Similar concept, so the switch is easy
- Backtesting capabilities (faster and easier)
- A little "lighter" than TS (less resources)
- 64-bit
- The easylanguage version is still a little compatible with TS
- I think the .Net version is more open for new developments, it is just a different platform.

Cons:
- You will never have the same feeling with MC. In a way, MC is more functional.
- TS brokerage is not that bad
- Customer service with MC
- TS and MC developed new "things" (don't ask me) that make them less and less compatible.
- You will lose years of great posts on a huge TS forum
- I never was comfortable running MC alone, I always felt the need to keep TWS (IB native platform). Perhaps it is just me.

If you have a problem with Tradestation brokerage, the switch would certainly helps. If you have a problem with the platform, I am not so sure.
Hope this helps!

Fonz,

Thank you very much for the detailed reply and the info.

Did you by any chance try TS as a data provider , while keeping IB as broker , using data provider log on with the TS account login credentials? or is it a different login if you use MC to get data from TS?

Thanks again for the reply,

Vacationer

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  #50 (permalink)
 Fonz 
Miami, Fl
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, Jigsaw
Trading: Futures
 
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Posts: 28 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 14 given, 36 received

Hi Vacationer,

You are very welcome.
And yes it is possible: With MC, you can select your Data feed for your tickers individually: Like ESM21= CQG, SPY = Tradestation, etc. And still connect to your broker (like IB) to trade.
To be able to use TS as a data provider, you need to have it open.

Also, MC is on sale 2 or 3 times a year (about 50% off). I bought mine during a Cyber Monday.

Good trades!

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  #51 (permalink)
 FuManChou 
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: Micro Indices
 
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Posts: 29 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 249 given, 40 received

Thanks to this tread, I decided to try out MultiCharts. Compiled a few of my indicators and strategies with minor tweaks. I will be waiting for a sale and then I will be most likely purchasing a lifetime license. I could probably trade Forex with MC and TradeStation for futures.

One deal breaker that is keeping me with TS is the option for custom renko bars in TS that is not in MC.

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  #52 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
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Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,292 given, 2,205 received


FuManChou View Post
Thanks to this tread, I decided to try out MultiCharts. Compiled a few of my indicators and strategies with minor tweaks. I will be waiting for a sale and then I will be most likely purchasing a lifetime license. I could probably trade Forex with MC and TradeStation for futures.

One deal breaker that is keeping me with TS is the option for custom renko bars in TS that is not in MC.

I bought lifetime licenses during their 'Easter Sale' last year. I would keep an eye on this promo within the next 4-5 weeks. I am using MC for forex and TS for futures, as you are thinking of doing.

With respect to custom Renko, MC has a lot more options for Renko than TS, especially Real Open, phantom bars, wicks, and 'new bar when exceeded'. I will not use Renko on TS because I automate strategies and accurate backtesting is pretty much impossible on TS without massaging the tick level data. MC is more accurate, so I only do Renko on MC. If the regular Renko settings in MC are not enough for you, then check out FlexRenko. Use 1 Tick Resolution.

There is nothing I on Renko in TS that I cannot do in MC. There are some good threads here on FIO discussing Renko and TradeStation.

I hope this helps!

~vmodus

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  #53 (permalink)
 FuManChou 
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: Micro Indices
 
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Posts: 29 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 249 given, 40 received


vmodus View Post
I bought lifetime licenses during their 'Easter Sale' last year. I would keep an eye on this promo within the next 4-5 weeks. I am using MC for forex and TS for futures, as you are thinking of doing.

With respect to custom Renko, MC has a lot more options for Renko than TS, especially Real Open, phantom bars, wicks, and 'new bar when exceeded'. I will not use Renko on TS because I automate strategies and accurate backtesting is pretty much impossible on TS without massaging the tick level data. MC is more accurate, so I only do Renko on MC. If the regular Renko settings in MC are not enough for you, then check out FlexRenko. Use 1 Tick Resolution.

There is nothing I on Renko in TS that I cannot do in MC. There are some good threads here on FIO discussing Renko and TradeStation.

I hope this helps!

Thanks for the heads up on Easter sale! I played around with the Renko bars a little more after and I posted. You are correct and I was able to get what I wanted. Still learning more about MC but so far I like it. I even started to look at Forex/Futures brokers too.

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  #54 (permalink)
 Vacationer 
Sarasota, Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, TS
Broker: TD Ameritrade, IB, TS
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 25 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 31 given, 13 received


FuManChou View Post
Thanks to this tread, I decided to try out MultiCharts. Compiled a few of my indicators and strategies with minor tweaks. I will be waiting for a sale and then I will be most likely purchasing a lifetime license. I could probably trade Forex with MC and TradeStation for futures.

One deal breaker that is keeping me with TS is the option for custom renko bars in TS that is not in MC.

FuManChou,

Good to know more candidates are thinking about the switch. Please post back and let us know how it went. I might actually go for the free trial first and take it from there.

Vacationer

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  #55 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
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Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,292 given, 2,205 received


FuManChou View Post
Thanks for the heads up on Easter sale! I played around with the Renko bars a little more after and I posted. You are correct and I was able to get what I wanted. Still learning more about MC but so far I like it. I even started to look at Forex/Futures brokers too.

Awesome, I'm glad I helped.

~vmodus

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  #56 (permalink)
 socaltrader 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: Gain Capital, MultiCharts
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 1 given, 8 received

MultiCharts was created by the developers of TradeStation

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #57 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
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Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,292 given, 2,205 received


socaltrader View Post
MultiCharts was created by the developers of TradeStation

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

I have been trying to put together a timeline of this history of the two for some time, but the information I have is very spotty. You can tell just by the file structure in MC it's TradeStation roots (e.g. 'TS Support'). Do you have any insight into it's history?

~vmodus

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  #58 (permalink)
 FuManChou 
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: Micro Indices
 
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Posts: 29 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 249 given, 40 received


Vacationer View Post
FuManChou,

Good to know more candidates are thinking about the switch. Please post back and let us know how it went. I might actually go for the free trial first and take it from there.

Vacationer


I purchased 2 lifetime licenses during the 2021 Easter sale. Regular MC and MC .NET along with the advance strategy packs for both versions. Got 50% off or a 2 for 1.

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