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VIDEO: MultiCharts vs. NinjaTrader strategy backtesting and optimization
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VIDEO: MultiCharts vs. NinjaTrader strategy backtesting and optimization

  #21 (permalink)
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Big mike, do you think then that its possible to build an indicator like the gomi volume ladder into multicharts based on its programming capabilities?

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  #22 (permalink)
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Michael.H View Post
Big mike, do you think then that its possible to build an indicator like the gomi volume ladder into multicharts based on its programming capabilities?

More or less anything is possible. Just like C#. I remember someone converted the d9wavelet indicator from sefstrat to MultiCharts --- at first sefstrat thought it would not be possible, but it ended up getting done in a couple of hours and with a lot less code

But in the case of Gomi's work which is really extremely complicated, I don't think you can accomplish it in the native EasyLanguage language. But, you can hook into a DLL file and write it in C# or C++ if you want.

MultiCharts themselves offer custom project work. You might contact them and ask them. But of course get Gomi's permission first to release the Elite code to them

Mike

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  #23 (permalink)
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Mike

did you ever think of building your own platform either in C# or perhaps Java? without your extensive knowledge and experience, it might be pretty cool. if you got it the way you wanted, you could always offer the sale of licenses after beta testing.

either that or maybe it could be with the theme of this website and be open source. you could make money through charging for support given by your support team ---kind of like the GNU people

I think it would be cool to have an open source or closed source platform in Java.

at the very least, just wondering if you ever thought about it at least for your own trading?

thanks
Spencer

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  #24 (permalink)
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Sorry, no --- I know my limits, and while I enjoy programming I would rather trade to make money than sell platform licenses to make money.

There are many people here on futures.io (formerly BMT) that have discussed in public that they are already working on new platforms. I hope one day they will join forces

Mike

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  #25 (permalink)
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Thanks, i actually am not planning on porting his indicator to multicharts.... Just wanted to know its capabilities. I know i/rt uses easylanguage(i think), but its capabilities are much more limited than ninja.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Mike,

I like NT7 but I'm starting to see that you just can't trust the damn thing. With the endless beta versions and changes and things being not as they should at every corner, I'm looking for an alternative. Today just has me burning up at DTN IQFeed went into total melt down stupidity mode. I've posted somewhere else about what was going on. It's just too much for me to take, after paying 160usd for the feed, I have less to work with than what I had before.

There isn't much that compares directly with NT for the price point. The professional tools like CQG start up around 1000/month, and goes up from there depending how you outfit it. I'm really surprised that with all the money NT is making, and it's a heck of a lot b/c basically anybody who gets to an advanced stage of retail trading will end up at NT, the last stop before one moves on to professional level charting software. This company is racking in enormous fees through their zenfire relationship. I'm really surprised there isn't a clear standout competitor going toe to toe for some of that. Really surprising because that is one big ole' pie NT is slurping up.

With multicharts it's just not something you really hear a lot about and that cause me to hesitate and rather keep fighting it out with the platform. What I'd like to know is how easy it is to convert indicators from nt to mc, and who can do it and for what price as I'm not a programmer myself. And secondly does Multi allow indicators on indicators as nt7 and mt4 do.

Thanks Mike,

Appreciate your advice in this area.


Big Mike View Post
Fat Tails,

Let's just say I feel very good with my decision to switch to MultiCharts. I don't regret it in the slightest, and I was a hardcore C# programmer right up to the day I learned EasyLanguage. Now personally I don't rely on a lot of indicators in my trading, but I did spend some time working on basic stuff getting it the way I wanted.

I found MultiCharts and EasyLanguage to be ideal for what I needed. 100% rock solid, fast, stable, and easy to accomplish objectives.

MultiCharts is not perfect. I've brought them a few bugs, but they released patches for me practically immediately.

I think for indicator junkies, they won't be as happy with MultiCharts because there are just too many NinjaTrader indicators around that are "whiz-bang" modified, whereas the EasyLanguage indicators are more of the basics. But while the NT boys are off playing with toys, I am trading.

The bottom line is simple: I think anyone that compares the two will find the choice abundantly clear. Whatever their decision is, it shouldn't be a tough one one way or the other.

Mike


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  #27 (permalink)
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This might be a stupid question, but why not Trade Station? As far as auto trading goes, aren't all the Striker Systems on Trade Station?

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  #28 (permalink)
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mainstream View Post
This might be a stupid question, but why not Trade Station? As far as auto trading goes, aren't all the Striker Systems on Trade Station?

As far as I understand -> With TradeStation you are tied to one broker. I do not want to marry a broker, would like to keep some independence, and for various reasons (amongst them capital protection and commissions) I prefer Interactive Brokers

MultiCharts use EasyLanguage as does TradeStation, so all indicators and strategies designed for TradeStation should run on MultiCharts as well.

I am not aware that TradeStation has a superior datafeed or a DOM.


syxforex View Post
There isn't much that compares directly with NT for the price point. The professional tools like CQG start up around 1000/month, and goes up from there depending how you outfit it.

There are probably only few of us that can pay for a decent tool. If it wasn't that expensive, I would like to test the CQG integrated client (uses C# as NinjaTrader, so indicators / strategies can be transplanted easily from NinjaTrader) with X-Trader for executions. CQG comes integrated with MatLab, so it would be a leap forward in trade metrics and backtesting.

I have not found any thread here on CQG, probably most of us do not admit that the investment might pay off.


Last edited by Fat Tails; June 20th, 2010 at 07:06 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)
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Fat Tails,

There are a few traders here using CQG, you may wish to start a new thread to solicit feedback if you are curious about them and their opinions.

With regards to MultiCharts vs. TradeStation, I believe MultiCharts wins the automation category hands down. MultiCharts discretionary trading is just now growing up and ready to come out and play, in version 7. There is a discussion on the MC forum about TradeStation 9 vs MultiCharts, because TS9 will introduce code breaking EasyLanguage changes.

Most people on the MC forum said they didn't care. Because MC has evolved over the years to be more than just its EL compatibility, and for years has had superior EL functions compared with TradeStation (and still does, today -- for instance, second granularity). Still, with TS v9 coming, MC v7 will need to stand and deliver

Competition is good.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #30 (permalink)
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Big M:

Interesting thoughts. Your observations seem to reflect a lot of frustration with NT and a desire to find something that works.

However, I think the frustration is swinging your opinion to not so insignificant manner.

(1) Intra-bar granularity: I have not run a lot of strategies, but my default approach is to add a 1 range bar as the second bar series and run the strategy test on that bar. This seems to work and does not require CalculateOnBarClose = false. In fact for backtesting COBC is meaningless since all calculations are done on the bar close.

The sampling bar (IOG) is not natively supported as it seems it is in MC, but all it requires are a few statements to add that bar, and then use that bar to trigger the calculations and updates.

 
Code
// Add the time period you want to sample at
			Add(samplingBarType,samplinBarPeriod);
			this.SamplingBarIndex = this.numberOfSeries++

...
// Check and execute strategy on that bar

	if(BarsInProgress == this.SamplingBarIndex && FirstTickOfBar){				
		updateIndicators();
		checkTradeTriggers();					
	}
I keep that sampling bar as a parameter to the strategy and seems to work fine. This being C#, you can use a base class to do this kind of work and then derive from it.

(2) Lines of Code: We all know that the lines of code are not the best metric, but a lot of the NT code size is the auto-generated part or the default headers which the strategy wizard automatically creates for you. The actual computation part is almost the same.

(3) Data Initialization: My default strategy setup just runs the indicators for a day or two extra to make sure everything is setup and initialized. I also control the time of the day when the strategy is active using input to the strategy. Simple checks in the code keep help implement these features.

 
Code
		[Description("Number of Days To Skip")]
		[Category("Parameters")]
		public int DaysToSkip
		{
			get { return daysToSkip; }
			set { daysToSkip = value; }
		}
		
		[Description("Activation Time")]
		[Category("Parameters")]
		public int StartTime
		{
			get { return startTime; }
			set { startTime = value; }
		}
		[Description("De-Activation Time")]
		[Category("Parameters")]
		public int EndTime
		{
			get { return endTime; }
			set { endTime = value; }
		}
----------------------------------------------------------------------


On a general note, the power of NT lies in its flexibility. Whenever you have flexibility, it takes more effort to achieve the same task, simply you have to worry about a lot more things. NT does provide enough wrappers to take care of the mundane tasks for you, while giving you the power to explore your own stuff.

NT is more like an operating system with a set of in-build indicators. To truly harness it requires you to build your own application layer on top. But you then have full control on what you are doing. Since you

____________________________________________


However the fundamental problem with NT7 as Fat Tail noted is that it does not do what is supposed to do in a reliable manner. I am running NT7 and just opened another workspace (which does have a lot of charts). Half of the charts did not open and are stuck with a "Loading Data..." message. So much potential, yet unrealized. I had to shutdown and restart. Now if that happens during live trading.... You cant trust it.


Last edited by aviat72; June 20th, 2010 at 09:02 PM.
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