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MultiCharts, MultiCharts, MultiCharts...
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MultiCharts, MultiCharts, MultiCharts...

  #121 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Port St Lucie, FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: TradeStation/Open e-cry
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Ranger's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 43 received

Oooooh. Guess, I blew that one - those comments should have been directed to BM. Anyway, they are still valid.

I code in EL; my partner uses NT. We'll give it a crack in the next month or so but likely with some enhancements. The underlying issue with RENKO or 3LBC are the continuation bars and the headfakes - see attachment. Dynamic stop loss not the hard stops are also important, if not the most important task.

Perhaps we can form a think tank to see, how best to take advantage of the RENKO and 3LBC with the objective of developing a strategy that collects its 2-4 points a day via autotrading and then shuts down. 3-4 persons; a little out of the box thinking; good programming skills; motivation and organization could achieve such a goal.

(Incidently, my partner ZAC elite member managed to produce a version of the 3LBC before NT officially released v7, so we could test our strategy then v7 arrived, so we're close.)

RANGER

Attached Thumbnails
MultiCharts, MultiCharts, MultiCharts...-3lbc-w-notes.jpg  
 
  #122 (permalink)
Elite Member
Madison, WI
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts, ALT
Favorite Futures: ES
 
aslan's Avatar
 
Posts: 614 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 342 given, 1,077 received

MC Renko Missing Wick Data

The renko bars in MC have the same issues as NT used to have (and may still have), namely they do not track and maintain the wick data when the bars are built. By definition, the renko bars are really high/low bars, and MC builds and draws them in this fashion. If you look in the data window, you will see that only two values are maintained vs OHLC. Tradestation does the same thing btw.

This lack of wick data, is why backtested strategies never pan out with renko.

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  #123 (permalink)
Elite Member
Madison, WI
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts, ALT
Favorite Futures: ES
 
aslan's Avatar
 
Posts: 614 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 342 given, 1,077 received

Multicharts is good, but not panacea


I have been playing around with MC demo for two weeks now, and thought I would highlight a few things. As background, I was originally a tradestation guy (and still have it running) who made the jump to Ninja to work around tradestation issues and take advantage of the advanced C# functionality.

Lets start with the good:

* rock solid stable
* good perf
* handles multi monitor pretty well
* deals with multiple data sources great!
* supports easy language
* supports dll interface for more complex items
* has all the standard drawing tools and chart types
* good optimizer / backtest / perf report
* decent easy language editor
* good at multi time frame / multi symbol charts
* was able to load all my ind from tradestation
* was able to port most of my Ninja ind
* did I mention it has not ever crashed

Now for the needs improvement areas (no particular order):

* no DOM / Level 2 (yet)
* does not support all easy language (i.e. no const keyword)
* can not do custom plotting (low level c#)
* renko bars don't maintain/show wicks
* can not program custom bar types like Ninja
* only one toolbar, causing issues for multi-monitor
* no hot keys for drawing functions, multi-monitor again
* can not interact with drawing objects from ind (tough, but possible in NT)
* can not natively handle complex data structures (can use tradestation add ons or dll to do so)
* no good searching in power editor help
* can not customize toolbars, other than turning buttons on/off
* missing the distribution graph from Ninja perf report
* not easy to deal with low level order details in strategies

Now, I have only been using this for two weeks, so some of the above may be addressed as I move continue to explore.

So, what is the verdict? Well, I think this falls in the same category as most platforms, namely it is really good at most things, but has some warts. You have to decide what you are willing to live with. It is not the single platform that does it all, but if they get the DOM right when it is added and add some polish here and there it would be close.

For me personally, the way it deals with data feeds, backtesting, and stability is a huge win that out weighs the lack of low level control that c# gets you.

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  #124 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received


aslan View Post
The renko bars in MC have the same issues as NT used to have (and may still have), namely they do not track and maintain the wick data when the bars are built. By definition, the renko bars are really high/low bars, and MC builds and draws them in this fashion. If you look in the data window, you will see that only two values are maintained vs OHLC. Tradestation does the same thing btw.

This lack of wick data, is why backtested strategies never pan out with renko.

aslan, thanks for following up. I conducted some tests this past week myself, and also found that strategies in MultiCharts do in fact (as you stated) have the same deficiency as NinjaTrader with Renko bars. So we agree.

The same is true (it would seem) of Kagi, Point and Figure, and Line Break charts.

If I recall, you are a Neoticker user as well, yes? Does Neoticker have these same limitations?

Also I learned that the Bar Magnifier only works on "Regular" chart types, which are tick, volume, range, and all time based settings. The magnifier will not work on Renko for instance to offer up any additional accuracy for backtest purposes.

Although disappointing, I still find MultiCharts to be far superior for my own purposes than NinjaTrader and am so far still very much enjoying it. I'm also enjoying learning EasyLanguage, but that is more the geek/hobbyist in me than the trader.

When TradeStation 9 is released, it will be interesting to see what advancements they've made and how everything stacks up again.

Mike

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  #125 (permalink)
Elite Member
Madison, WI
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts, ALT
Favorite Futures: ES
 
aslan's Avatar
 
Posts: 614 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 342 given, 1,077 received


Quoting 
The same is true (it would seem) of Kagi, Point and Figure, and Line Break charts.

If I recall, you are a Neoticker user as well, yes? Does Neoticker have these same limitations?

I have not used those bar types, but likely true.

As far as Neo is concerned, very powerful platform, but rather difficult to use imo, especially with the smaller user community it has. I am not heading in that direction.

 
  #126 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received

With regards to EasyLanguage not being able to interact with the chart/indicators, I don't think that is the case.

This thread on MC forum discusses something called "binary search" where you can have an indicator interact with the chart for positioning, etc:
TS SUPPORT :: View topic - Binary Searchs

Also, there is an EasyLanguage add-on chart trader below in this thread. Clearly no where near as advanced as NinjaTrader, but it was a work around created in EasyLanguage until MC7 is released.
TS SUPPORT :: View topic - ChartTrader by gregorio

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #127 (permalink)
Elite Member
Kaunas, Lithuania
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker/Data: IB/IQFeed
Favorite Futures: Stocks, Futures
 
neriusb's Avatar
 
Posts: 15 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 16 given, 12 received


Big Mike View Post
With regards to EasyLanguage not being able to interact with the chart/indicators, I don't think that is the case.

This thread on MC forum discusses something called "binary search" where you can have an indicator interact with the chart for positioning, etc:
TS SUPPORT :: View topic - Binary Searchs

Also, there is an EasyLanguage add-on chart trader below in this thread. Clearly no where near as advanced as NinjaTrader, but it was a work around created in EasyLanguage until MC7 is released.
TS SUPPORT :: View topic - ChartTrader by gregorio

Mike

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but seems only customers of MultiCharts can post/download in Tssupport forum ?!?

 
  #128 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received


neriusb View Post
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but seems only customers of MultiCharts can post/download in Tssupport forum ?!?

Yes that's correct.

But, there are a bunch of knowledgeable users and so far each post I've made has received an answer very promptly, it's a good community and very, very bright community.

I also had to use the on-line instant help for MultiCharts directly (paid employees) and was real impressed by it, got someone in under 5 minutes and fixed the problem 5 minutes later, was a senior person at MC so no screwing around, no "we can't duplicate that" stuff, etc.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #129 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Port St Lucie, FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: TradeStation/Open e-cry
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Ranger's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 43 received

You can take outputs from RENKO; 3 Line Break Chart etc and pass those outputs to a Regular Tick Chart, where you can use the full features of backtesting. See my other post, where I provided a demonstration and code samples of same. ;o)

RANGER

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  #130 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received



Ranger View Post
You can take outputs from RENKO; 3 Line Break Chart etc and pass those outputs to a Regular Tick Chart, where you can use the full features of backtesting. See my other post, where I provided a demonstration and code samples of same. ;o)

RANGER

Ranger,

Are you talking about this post #116?

https://futures.io/platforms-indicators/2698-multicharts-multicharts-multicharts-12.html#post30777

I couldn't find any post where you provided code... ??

I am still very new to EasyLanguage. I've not tried a global variable yet. If you have a working code example on how to take signals from a Renko chart and send them to a different chart, can you please post it in the Programmers Paradise -> EasyLanguage section? I would really appreciate it.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.


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