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Multicharts with .Net
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Multicharts with .Net

  #41 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Jura View Post
...

Are there other things that MC .NET can do that PowerLanguage / regular MC can't ? For example, with MC .NET you can also monitor for broker disconnects right? As an amateur to C# I can see that the programming language is clearly more advanced, but I struggle somewhat to see how this might be implemented for more advanced features.


Let's look at how the computer languages work:

say, you want to print, you write the PRINT keyword in your code, and the program makes a print out for you.
if you want to buy, you write the BUY keyword in your code, and the program makes a buy order for you.

What if you want to buy with a stop limit that adds an immediate stoploss and scaling profit targets... if that computer language does not have such a keyword, then you cannot perform such an operation. (at least not directly).

+ + + +

C# comes with 97 keywords.
EasyLanguage has hundreds of keywords, and new keywords are added with every new release.

You might ask, how can C# be more powerful and can do more things, when it has only 97 keywords?

That is because C# gives you the building blocks -- you can create new keywords with these building block.

ie. You do not need to depend on MultiCharts engineers to give you a functionality. You can create it yourself.


Last edited by Bimi; July 17th, 2012 at 11:53 PM.
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  #42 (permalink)
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Bimi View Post
if that computer language does not have such a keyword, then you cannot perform such an operation. (at least not directly).

+ + + +

That is because C# gives you the building blocks -- you can create new keywords with these building block.

ie. You do not need to depend on MultiCharts engineers to give you a functionality. You can create it yourself.

Thanks Bimi for your insights. This added flexibility of C# is also one of the reasons I think it's the way to go, since if I understand it correctly, we don't have to wait till MultiCharts implement a new feature but can (more or less) make it ourself.

However, it also seems to me that some things are "shielded" and can't be changed with MC .NET, which sprung my original question about what is available to change and what isn't.

For example, I contacted MC support about the possibility of making your own WFO logic. Currently, in regular MultiCharts the WFO always chooses the parameters that yield the highest value for the chosen criteria (like net profit). Off course, such a selection procedure favours the maximum outlier parameter set, which I'd rather not choose. However, according to MC Support it isn't possible in MC .NET to make your own logic about which parameter set to choose with a WFO. So, that leads me to the assumption that some things are "shielded" from changing.

In pseudo, amateur C# format, the WFO_ChooseParameterSet() method, which by default returns 'parameter values with highest value for the selected criteria', apparently can't be overloaded. (Or there was a miscommunication between me & MC Support)

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  #43 (permalink)
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Bimi View Post
Let's look at how the computer languages work:

say, you want to print, you write the PRINT keyword in your code, and the program makes a print out for you.
if you want to buy, you write the BUY keyword in your code, and the program makes a buy order for you.

What if you want to buy with a stop limit that adds an immediate stoploss and scaling profit targets... if that computer language does not have such a keyword, then you cannot perform such an operation. (at least not directly).

+ + + +

C# comes with 97 keywords.
EasyLanguage has hundreds of keywords, and new keywords are added with every new release.

You might ask, how can C# be more powerful and can do more things, when it has only 97 keywords?

That is because C# gives you the building blocks -- you can create new keywords with these building block.

ie. You do not need to depend on MultiCharts engineers to give you a functionality. You can create it yourself.

This is the reason why I want to start with C#, seems it is more flexible. even I don't know anything in programming.

In past 10 years, I do my stocks screening by manually and spend almost 3 to 5 hours a day (but I have day job)...I don't know there is some trading platform which allow to use computer to do the job, in Hong Kong such software is not famous. When I found BigMikeForum here, I start to think if one day I know how to use the code then I could save a lot of time.

However, I need pay a lot of effort to start with programming (no matter easy language or C#)... I bought 2 books from Amazon.com, the C# books for beginner, I read it for few days but still no idea about C#.....

Maybe I am too old to start with study programming.......

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  #44 (permalink)
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rienno View Post
This is the reason why I want to start with C#, seems it is more flexible. even I don't know anything in programming.

In past 10 years, I do my stocks screening by manually and spend almost 3 to 5 hours a day (but I have day job)...I don't know there is some trading platform which allow to use computer to do the job, in Hong Kong such software is not famous. When I found BigMikeForum here, I start to think if one day I know how to use the code then I could save a lot of time.

However, I need pay a lot of effort to start with programming (no matter easy language or C#)... I bought 2 books from Amazon.com, the C# books for beginner, I read it for few days but still no idea about C#.....

Maybe I am too old to start with study programming.......

If you have never taken a programming course in school, I would not attempt C# now.

Try EasyLanguage. It is designed for non-programmering traders. You will find the English-like syntax easy to understand. There are lots of free ebooks and tutorials on the web, there is no need to buy anything.


Last edited by Bimi; July 18th, 2012 at 05:23 AM.
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  #45 (permalink)
Village Idiot
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Jura View Post
Thanks tx413 for your comments. I'm glad that MC .NET is the 'winner', since that would also be my first choice. Btw, do you happen to know other retail C# based trading programs? OpenQuant has a limited R&D budget (so I expect they have less programmers), and Wealth-Lab seems not a 'professional product' to me (but I might be mistaken). Besides that, I don't know of others.

You say that you can do almost everything in C# with NinjaTrader. How does that work with MC .NET in practice? I'm wondering since NT is natively written in C#, while MC uses C++, so I assume somewhat naively that with MC .NET less things are available / accessible in the language. Or did they properly ensure that practically everything is accessible?

Are there other things that MC .NET can do that PowerLanguage / regular MC can't ? For example, with MC .NET you can also monitor for broker disconnects right? As an amateur to C# I can see that the programming language is clearly more advanced, but I struggle somewhat to see how this might be implemented for more advanced features.

As for other C# based trading platforms, the only two I'm familiar with are the two that you mention. OpenQuant looks great but I could never get it to run on any of my machines. It always crashes immediately. Wealth Lab looks nice, but isn't it only available to Fidelity customers now?

Regarding C# on MC vs. Ninja, you're right about NT being written in C#. This allows you to do the things I mentioned like adding toolbars and menu items because much of the internals of NT is exposed (or can be exposed) to your code. But in MC I don't think it's going to be that simple because it's not native .NET -- the C++ gets compiled down to machine code and you lose all the object names and easy references. But you can still do lots of other fun stuff within those constraings, like creating your own windows and adding custom drawing and objects to charts. I'm sure people will find other ways to do all sorts of great things after it's been out awhile.

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  #46 (permalink)
Silver bullet
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tx413 View Post
But in MC I don't think it's going to be that simple because it's not native .NET -- the C++ gets compiled down to machine code and you lose all the object names and easy references.

They are using C++? What a pitfall now if this is true. The reason for such a decision could be made by management (I know but this happens to often nowadays ...) or caused by performance thoughts. Exposing the components from existing MC to the .Net - Layer is no problem at all, almost eveything can be done depending on the quality of existing MC of course! But mapping the unmanaged code (old MC) via COM interop calls could make it more creepy slow than betting on managed code throughout the application. I think it won't be that bad but I've seen Managed+Unmanaged-CodeIntegrations where this lead to a real drawback. So lets see how far they come ... For my self I would be happy to stay with a .Net Interface to my favored trading application MC because of the (then) maybe almost unlimited possibilities.

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  #47 (permalink)
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I hope whatever the special pricing might be for us current MC users, it's available for a while as I'd like to get some good feedback from the .NET users before I decide if it's worthwhile for what I might want to do...

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  #48 (permalink)
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TonyB View Post
I hope whatever the special pricing might be for us current MC users, it's available for a while as I'd like to get some good feedback from the .NET users before I decide if it's worthwhile for what I might want to do...

My understanding is that you'll be able to get a 30 day trial for the .net version to try it out.

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  #49 (permalink)
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imPairsonator View Post
My understanding is that you'll be able to get a 30 day trial for the .net version to try it out.

That wouldn't surprise me. I believe MC has or at least had a 30 day free trial with the current MC offering (EL / PL)...

If the special offer being extended to current MC users is let's say half price (I have no idea, just a guess), I'm hoping that offer will not be one that expires after so many days or weeks. I'd like to read the reviews and feedback to see what folks are able to do with MC .NET, or what they can't before I pull the trigger.

I hope the special pricing for us will valid for whenever we might want to buy MC .NET.

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  #50 (permalink)
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According to the official "MC .Net coming soon" webpage, there will be a free version.

I'm curious how much you can do with that free version. My guess is, it will be free as long as you don't submit real trades to your broker. That is one of the reason why Ninjatrader has such an success. Once you have spend a lot of time with an platform, you will likely stick to it as long as the platform is good. And Ninjatrader is no doubt a good platform. Same is valid for Multicharts but they don't have such an big user community because there is currently no real free version like Ninjatrader.

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