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Broker for order execution using MC auto+manual trading
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Broker for order execution using MC auto+manual trading

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, TS, NT
Broker/Data: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 41 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 12 given, 19 received


MultiCharts View Post
From this chart you can see that IB supports server side OCO - Supported Brokers


A possible solution at last, I had not noticed that, thank you!

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pismo Beach CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, Fidelity for 'swing' trades
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, IBB, IWM, NG
 
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Posts: 160 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 80 given, 89 received

Is anyone here using TS data with MC and then, IB as the brokerage for running 'auto' strategies?

In that scenario, are you then dependent on TS being up and running for the strategy data or, do you set up your strategy so that it is using IB data? The downside to IB is that there is a scheduled brief 'downtime' (at least in the connection from me to them - don't know about the server the stops/limits for the auto strategies would reside on) every night at around 9PM PST. The downside to TS data, in my experience, is that it can be glitchier overall though it seems better now than in the past.

I'm most comfortable with OCO on the server side when trying to use true auto trading (which I wouldn't run with large #'s of contracts in any case).

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, TS, NT
Broker/Data: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 41 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 12 given, 19 received



heywally View Post
Is anyone here using TS data with MC and then, IB as the brokerage for running 'auto' strategies?

In that scenario, are you then dependent on TS being up and running for the strategy data or, do you set up your strategy so that it is using IB data? The downside to IB is that there is a scheduled brief 'downtime' (at least in the connection from me to them - don't know about the server the stops/limits for the auto strategies would reside on) every night at around 9PM PST. The downside to TS data, in my experience, is that it can be glitchier overall though it seems better now than in the past.

I'm most comfortable with OCO on the server side when trying to use true auto trading (which I wouldn't run with large #'s of contracts in any case).

Under the strategy automation settings you have the option to get real-time data from either broker or chart (hence TS in this case).

When referring to OCO I meant for manual trading. Running OCO via an easylanguage strategy is not that easy to my knowledge. In TS you can (just about) do it by calling a .placeorder macro, but that is a complex/advanced method. I don't know of a way to have a MC strategy place an OCO order.

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  #14 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.multicharts.com 
Columbus, Ohio, US
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Multiple/Multiple
Favorite Futures: ES, EUR/USD
 
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Posts: 168 since Oct 2010
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SPTrading View Post
Under the strategy automation settings you have the option to get real-time data from either broker or chart (hence TS in this case).

When referring to OCO I meant for manual trading. Running OCO via an easylanguage strategy is not that easy to my knowledge. In TS you can (just about) do it by calling a .placeorder macro, but that is a complex/advanced method. I don't know of a way to have a MC strategy place an OCO order.

I want to clarify a couple of things.

Option to "get real-time data from either broker or chart" in the Strategy Properties window does not affect the data stream on your chart. It affects the timer in the "convert stop or limit orders to market" options just above it. You can use the switch between Chart/Broker to start counting to the conversion moment either from the moment when the order was placed on the chart, or when it was executed at the broker. For instance, when running AA trading mode the time discrepancy between when the order was placed on the chart and when it was placed on the broker can be significant.

OCO for manual and for automated trading are the same - either server-side or local. When orders are sent to IB, two opposing price orders for instance, they are automatically placed as OCO. There is a setting in the IB Broker Profile about OCO groups (see attached screen). You can find more info in the TWS help about the exact procedure they use.

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Broker for order execution using MC auto+manual trading-ib_oco.png  
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  #15 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.multicharts.com 
Columbus, Ohio, US
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Multiple/Multiple
Favorite Futures: ES, EUR/USD
 
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heywally View Post
Is anyone here using TS data with MC and then, IB as the brokerage for running 'auto' strategies?

In that scenario, are you then dependent on TS being up and running for the strategy data or, do you set up your strategy so that it is using IB data? The downside to IB is that there is a scheduled brief 'downtime' (at least in the connection from me to them - don't know about the server the stops/limits for the auto strategies would reside on) every night at around 9PM PST. The downside to TS data, in my experience, is that it can be glitchier overall though it seems better now than in the past.

I'm most comfortable with OCO on the server side when trying to use true auto trading (which I wouldn't run with large #'s of contracts in any case).

When choosing a datafeed you should always consider uptime as a factor. We are agnostic, but some traders praise TS and some have good things to say about IB. No matter which one you use, you are dependent on the feed to be up, if you want to be placing trades. You can use either feed, and send orders to IB (using Symbol Mapping in MC, you can map the route of your order to any broker from any chart). Your broker needs to support OCO server-side if you want to be protected in case of an internet disconnect, and IB does.

MultiCharts - Raising the Trading Standard.
Please send me a private message if you have any further questions about MultiCharts
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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, TS, NT
Broker/Data: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 41 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 12 given, 19 received


MultiCharts View Post
OCO for manual and for automated trading are the same - either server-side or local.

I haven't yet hooked up MC to a broker, but assumed it worked the same as TradeStation in strategy automation - i.e. in TS you can't have 2 orders active at the same time (using the regular buy/sell statements), for example if your position is long then the strategy manager will either have your sell target (limit) or sell stop active at any time, and given that then the issue of an OCO isn't relevant. So, if MC allows both to be active at the same time then that is a really excellent benefit. However, the benefit is only real (i.e. protecting you against disconnection) if the OCO is held server side.

Unfortunately I have had too many people telling me to avoid IB as a broker. Do you think it might become available with any others?

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pismo Beach CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, Fidelity for 'swing' trades
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, IBB, IWM, NG
 
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Posts: 160 since Apr 2010
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SPTrading View Post
I haven't yet hooked up MC to a broker, but assumed it worked the same as TradeStation in strategy automation - i.e. in TS you can't have 2 orders active at the same time (using the regular buy/sell statements), for example if your position is long then the strategy manager will either have your sell target (limit) or sell stop active at any time, and given that then the issue of an OCO isn't relevant. So, if MC allows both to be active at the same time then that is a really excellent benefit. However, the benefit is only real (i.e. protecting you against disconnection) if the OCO is held server side.

Unfortunately I have had too many people telling me to avoid IB as a broker. Do you think it might become available with any others?

A comment on IB: have used them for about ten years. The only problem I've ever had from them is customer support and perhaps, using as a data source over at NT, because they will only go back a few years historically and have a limitation on how much of that data you can load up at a time. They also don't have pure tick data, which I don't need for what I'm doing. Not crazy about their TWS trading platform for day trading but I use Buttontrader for that. One other thing; they have some sort of shutdown or disconnect at 12AM EST
that lasts for a few minutes; pretty funky for these modern times. I don't know how this affects strategy orders held on their server but I'd guess that it doesn't. Anyone? They also require you to shut down your TWS connection once every 24 hours - stupid but ways around that being a problem.

I have a small token account at TS to access their platform and backtesting/data capability.

In general, just don't need to use IB's support, as they might -- in the past anyway -- tend to piss you off with their lack of responsiveness. I'm doing pretty straight-forward stuff in the markets so it isn't a problem for me anymore.

In my experience, IB's advantages are:

- near 100% uptime
- very fast executions
- wide product range with virtually no add-on exchange fees
- good commissions
- quick and free wires out
- apparent strong financial position


The above things far outweigh IB's problems, for me.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, TS, NT
Broker/Data: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 41 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 12 given, 19 received


heywally View Post
In my experience, IB's advantages are:

- near 100% uptime
- very fast executions
- wide product range with virtually no add-on exchange fees
- good commissions
- quick and free wires out
- apparent strong financial position


The above things far outweigh IB's problems, for me.

Thanks again for your comments, these are all very good points. For ES I am looking at $4 RT instead of $3.70 with Velocity, so just a bit more expensive. Are you including futures trading in your comments (i.e. fast executions), etc? I do know of a successful scalper who has always used IB for ES trading and always uses market orders for exits and entries. It would be nice but not essential to trade equities from the same account. Multicharts support tell me that many customers use IB, but of course they won't make a recommendation.

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pismo Beach CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, Fidelity for 'swing' trades
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, IBB, IWM, NG
 
heywally's Avatar
 
Posts: 160 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 80 given, 89 received


SPTrading View Post
Thanks again for your comments, these are all very good points. For ES I am looking at $4 RT instead of $3.70 with Velocity, so just a bit more expensive. Are you including futures trading in your comments (i.e. fast executions), etc? I do know of a successful scalper who has always used IB for ES trading and always uses market orders for exits and entries. It would be nice but not essential to trade equities from the same account. Multicharts support tell me that many customers use IB, but of course they won't make a recommendation.

Yes, on the fast executions for futures. I trade mostly the NQ and ES at the market price during regular hours and executions are near instantaneous. And I can't remember (or know about) the last time they had any non-scheduled downtime or data issues and I trade every day. If you do use IB and are a 'scalpy' or very short term trader, I'd also recommend taking a look at buttontrader.com, an amazing trading interface though it takes some discipline to prevent that from causing over trading.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
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