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My trading philosophy for choosing the Holy Grail trade setup
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My trading philosophy for choosing the Holy Grail trade setup

  #11 (permalink)
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Griff1 View Post
Hi Everybody,

I feel I have to come in here, and ask - what is the point of this Forum (or indeed any other public Forum), when all that its members do is to "have a go" after somebody has taken the time to research and share something that they have found helpful for others.

I believe the issue is just with the phrase "Holy Grail". If it were called Elliot Wave risk analysis, I don't think anyone would have said anything

Mike

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  #12 (permalink)
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If I knew there was going to be so many comments I'd've baked a cake.

I am sorry if the use of the phrase ‘Holy Grail’ has offended anyone. As Big Mike notes another phrase might not caused people to comment, but that’s the name of this setup.


Massive l View Post
I just don't understand how anyone can give away a trade setup that generates them income time and time again. (especially if they call it the holy grail! lol)
We're in business here and trade secrets are just that, secrets. My business depends on it. .

You make a valid point. Copyrights and patents can be essential parts of a business. Without them, a big company could just copy products and sell them at such a low price that a innovative smaller company could not compete.

Secrecy is always an option but there is another way. Sharing knowledge expands knowledge for everyone. As a common principle I believe it can create new opportunities and new horizons which can enrich all of us. There are people who want to share, educate and they want to see other people grow and develop. They get profound satisfaction from seeing people using their knowledge. The income they get is not just a monetary reward but an emotional one. The emotional rewards of seeing people learn, grow and achieve is one of the primary reasons why people become Nurses, Teachers and Parents.

For me MTPredictor is as much about Education as it is about selling software.


Koepisch View Post
@jorune. Don't spread these setups here. They will be gone in no time. Make money don't try to get famous.

The setups are already out there, the developer Steve Griffiths, has been blogging about them since Jan 2010. Google reckons that for the phrase ‘mtpredictor “Holy Grail”’ there are 2,480 hits. The cat is truly out of the bag.

I believe that investment banks and hedge funds employ hundreds of quantitative analysts to search all financial markets for new edges. Using maths that I will never understand and huge data centres they are engaged in a continual war of trying to find ways to break other banks models and strengthen their own. This has been going on for many years and thankfully the Holy Grail setup is still valid. Perhaps one day it will stop working, I cannot say when that might be.

Michael Harris, developer of Price Action Lab, blogs about trading systems and their propensity to fail - The Main Cause of Failure of Some Popular Technical Trading Methods | Price Action Lab Blog

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  #13 (permalink)
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jorune View Post
If I knew there was going to be so many comments I'd've baked a cake.

I am sorry if the use of the phrase ‘Holy Grail’ has offended anyone. As Big Mike notes another phrase might not caused people to comment, but that’s the name of this setup.


You make a valid point. Copyrights and patents can be essential parts of a business. Without them, a big company could just copy products and sell them at such a low price that a innovative smaller company could not compete.

Secrecy is always an option but there is another way. Sharing knowledge expands knowledge for everyone. As a common principle I believe it can create new opportunities and new horizons which can enrich all of us. There are people who want to share, educate and they want to see other people grow and develop. They get profound satisfaction from seeing people using their knowledge. The income they get is not just a monetary reward but an emotional one. The emotional rewards of seeing people learn, grow and achieve is one of the primary reasons why people become Nurses, Teachers and Parents.

I understand the holy grail thing. I searched and searched forever trying to find the holy grail and I think we all do at some point. That's how a lot of us learned. I've shared my entire journey from beginning to where I am now on the internet with 5 different journals over 3.5 years. I've programmed 20 or so indicators for anyone to use and continue to learn from everyone else on the internet. There comes a time though where 4000 hours of programming/trading and another 2000 hours of executing trades until the method was consistently profitable becomes hard to give away for free. That's where I was coming from in my initial post.

I would also like to say I understand where you're coming from with lagging indicators. I stopped using traditional indicators because every time price changed, they would change. That's when I started again from scratch with a blank chart and only price and volume. So now you're working with the third wave of the elliot wave theory and it's been working out well for you? I never really went down the elliot wave road but I have an online friend that uses his counts often. Whatever works! If what someone is doing isn't working for them, then they may want to check out the third wave in elliot wave theory like you mentioned.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money

Last edited by Massive l; December 28th, 2012 at 11:07 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)
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I've read somewhere that Elliot wave 5 setups only work 20% of the time in the current market these days. In general "wave 3" setups imo can be equated to common price action continuation and can go by many names.
Basically "wave 2" is the consolidation phase and the "leg" of the "wave 3" is the continuation breakout.
Al Brook's "breakout pullback" and "measured move" can be seen as a wave 1-2-3 pattern. Which is similar to Gartley and general A-B-C-D patterns. CJBooth's "lazy W" or "W" pattern is pretty much a setup for a "wave 3" continuation move while attempting to use a few indicators to support or confirm the entry. That the "wave 3" pattern is practically a universal price action pattern makes it likely that it will not go away no matter the amount of exposure and HFT. It will just be messy or spikey and increasingly varied as it has been, but more often than not the "wave 3" breakout mirror leg to "wave 1" will occur , or it will fail and most likely form a "double top" and then a leg in the opposite direction.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Thank you to everyone for your thoughts. The wave 3 setup, as a regularly occurring pattern, is not new but the approach of MTPredictor in focusing on risk control and position sizing with all the relevant entry and exit data displayed on the screen is to my mind, an important addition to trading.

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  #16 (permalink)
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MTPredictors' Holy Grail

MTPredictors' Holy Grail has been shown to work. I can understand why the 'non believers' and the 'non followers' ridicule it... Let them, I say...

Albert Einstein is quoted as saying, "Condemnation, without investigation, is the height of ignorance."

I have attended close to 300 of MTPredictors free hourly webinars. **That is 300 plus hours free training**
This is one of the MAJOR components of the MTPredictor software training and trading, once you become part of the MTPredictor Community. One of the major selling points of MTPredictor is the free one hourly webinars, three times a week.

I like the 'Holy Grail' set ups, which have the red volume spikes into a DP. Actually VOLUME is associated with me in the webinars... **Smiles**

I like the double 'Holy Grails' the best, where a five wave sequence into a 15 minute DP, followed by a RED Volume Spike, into a five wave reversal. That could possibly generate a 20R PLUS return.

As I said, I can understand why 'non believers' and the 'non followers' ridicule it all, they have the chance to walk away... **Smiles**


Last edited by Fortitude; January 2nd, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)
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I am afraid that spreading the setup will entice the reverse engineering guys which will then crack the software in no time. It's only a ninjatrader add-on, which isn't protected very well. I don't think that this is in the sense of the MTP owner steve. The trading forums like big mike are target of these guys and parsed regularly. I'm also a dot net software developer and i know the pitfalls of the common obfuscations.

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  #18 (permalink)
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Koepisch View Post
I am afraid that spreading the setup will entice the reverse engineering guys which will then crack the software in no time. It's only a ninjatrader add-on, which isn't protected very well. I don't think that this is in the sense of the MTP owner steve. The trading forums like big mike are target of these guys and parsed regularly. I'm also a dot net software developer and i know the pitfalls of the common obfuscations.

Hi

We have been developing the MTPredictor program for 11 years now, so you can let me worry about hackers, they are no problem for normal MTPredictor customers.


Thanks

Steve
MTPredictor developer

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  #19 (permalink)
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Fortitude View Post
MTPredictors' Holy Grail has been shown to work.

How did you learn of this thread?

Were you asked to post here? Your actions and post content read like an advertisement.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #20 (permalink)
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HOLY GRAIL


I titled my post HOLY GRAIL to get your attention. There are couple of "smart" philosophical comments here from the traders who did not take time to read about (leave alone studied) MTPredictor software. First of all, naming a trade setup "Holy Grail" has nothing to do with the notion of 100% winning trade setup. Second, MTPredictor software IS NOT AN INDICATOR. It is a system that ALERTS you about possible trade setup BASED ON THE PRICE ACTION. But you do not need "...to watch the prices unfold bar by bar..." to pick up crumbs here and there by scalping. Instead (and this is, IMO, the most important component of the software) MTP gives you an ability to enter trades with reward to risk ratio so big, that even if your win per cent is 30, you still end up with nice profit at the end of a reasonably extended time period. Obviously, it is not a holy grail, but based on the First Amendment, the author of the setup can name it any way he want, even "Holy Grail".
On the personal note, I participated in a trade competition in 2012. Out of 245 participants, I was #9. And guess what? THE ONLY SETUP I used during the competition was HOLY GRAIL. The average Reward to Risk was 3.4, with 42% winning trades. You do the math.



Zondor View Post
The preceding post gives an excellent classic illustration of trade psychology run amok, how one's own mind can generate the illusion that the market can read your mind and take your money every time.


No indicator is the "holy grail" (I HATE THAT IDIOTIC PHRASE) that can substitute for watching the prices unfold bar by bar and thinking about what you are seeing. For some people the indicators provide clarifying and confirming information that is of complementary value. Especially if, as in my case, they are not based on the price of the instrument I am trading.

The model designation of my road racing bike is "Excalibur". I am extending a free offer to use it to run over the next person who uses the term, "holy grail". Claim your prize soon!

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