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Volume Profile and MTPredictor
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Volume Profile and MTPredictor

  #21 (permalink)
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flipper26 View Post
Do you have to draw in the wave counts yourself or does the MTP software do that for you? Thanks

Hi Flipper,

There are automatic wave counts as well as the ability to project your own from a series of swings. A classic example of where MTP would struggle would be a flat correction, so it might pick up a sharp abc wave 2 but fail to pick up a flat wave 4.
There's the basic 'rules' that Steve Griffith and Co. teach in their webinars and in the manual, but as with all things trading related it's as much an art as a science and with experience you can fine-tune it a great deal. Somewhere on the site I think there's the results from a test they did on the YM last year I think where they took every trade based on the basic rules and if I recall it more than doubled the equity. Tweaking it with experience and you could do a lot better than that.

If you are interested in it I would recommend signing up for their free live webiinars Mon/Wed/Fri for equities and once a week I think for FX. There's lots of info on the site too and you'll always get a quick response to any questions. I would also strongly recommend you look at some form of order-flow indicator to corroborate. Deucalion seems to have it pretty neatly nailed using Gomi's Volume Ladder in NT7. Personally I use Cumulative Delta and wave volume counts akin to the Weis Wave. You could also use Median Lines if you are proficient with them.

Hope that helps and if you've any further questions feel free to post, or PM me, and I'll be happy to answer as best/if, I can!

SS

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812)
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  #22 (permalink)
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SisyphusStone View Post
...I think there's the results from a test they did on the YM last year I think where they took every trade based on the basic rules and if I recall it more than doubled the equity...

This year wasn't that good for the automatic YM trades:
https://futures.io/mtpredictor/23853-profitable-trade-standard-ts123-setups.html#post273906

Steve said "First, this year (so far) has been a lot harder for the 3min YM track record using just the standard MTP setups, however, please remember that this is not how we teach how to use MTPredictor"

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  #23 (permalink)
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I don't give Steve credit for making excuses for MTP (as a standard tool it is at best average), but he is right on two (very big) counts -
  1. Control your risk
  2. Use MTP wave tools to go beyond the standard setups

My own 2cnts -
From (2) above, use a non correlated tool to confirm or discard the wave. ES had a horrible 6point range today, yet; plenty of structure.

Also, I am using Acme's VP tools, not Gomi's. I find little use for the profiling but the Footprint is worth its weight in gold.

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  #24 (permalink)
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Deucalion View Post
I don't give Steve credit for making excuses for MTP (as a standard tool it is at best average), but he is right on two (very big) counts -
  1. Control your risk
  2. Use MTP wave tools to go beyond the standard setups

My own 2cnts -
From (2) above, use a non correlated tool to confirm or discard the wave. ES had a horrible 6point range today, yet; plenty of structure.

Also, I am using Acme's VP tools, not Gomi's. I find little use for the profiling but the Footprint is worth its weight in gold.

"My own 2cnts - " - I take it that's 2 cents!!

I would agree whole-heartedly with your observations. If you don't, or won't use risk control and position sizing then you deserve to be parted from your money.

MTP definitely needs the 'human touch' to get anything meaningful/consistent from it. Also, if I was to buy it again I would go for the NT7 plug-in and not the stand-alone as the charting is too restrictive for me, but then it was no doubt designed around Steve's trading mind/methods.

Not the nicest day today unless you're a range-trader.

Is Acme's ladder essentially the same as Gomi's or different?

Have a great w/end everyone!

SS

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812)
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  #25 (permalink)
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SisyphusStone View Post
"My own 2cnts - " - I take it that's 2 cents!!

I would agree whole-heartedly with your observations. If you don't, or won't use risk control and position sizing then you deserve to be parted from your money.

MTP definitely needs the 'human touch' to get anything meaningful/consistent from it. Also, if I was to buy it again I would go for the NT7 plug-in and not the stand-alone as the charting is too restrictive for me, but then it was no doubt designed around Steve's trading mind/methods.

Not the nicest day today unless you're a range-trader.

Is Acme's ladder essentially the same as Gomi's or different?

Have a great w/end everyone!

SS

Acme's ladder is essentially the same. Some people swear by Gomi, I have never seriously tried using Gomi (maybe I should have, Gomi is one heck of a member, brilliant fella! But I can say the same of Troy at Acme). So I cant compare. I used to hate range days myself, now that I have a use able way of looking at volume, I cant complain. And when there is appreciable depth in the market, MTP really shines.

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  #26 (permalink)
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SisyphusStone View Post
Hi Flipper,

There are automatic wave counts as well as the ability to project your own from a series of swings. A classic example of where MTP would struggle would be a flat correction, so it might pick up a sharp abc wave 2 but fail to pick up a flat wave 4.
There's the basic 'rules' that Steve Griffith and Co. teach in their webinars and in the manual, but as with all things trading related it's as much an art as a science and with experience you can fine-tune it a great deal. Somewhere on the site I think there's the results from a test they did on the YM last year I think where they took every trade based on the basic rules and if I recall it more than doubled the equity. Tweaking it with experience and you could do a lot better than that.

If you are interested in it I would recommend signing up for their free live webiinars Mon/Wed/Fri for equities and once a week I think for FX. There's lots of info on the site too and you'll always get a quick response to any questions. I would also strongly recommend you look at some form of order-flow indicator to corroborate. Deucalion seems to have it pretty neatly nailed using Gomi's Volume Ladder in NT7. Personally I use Cumulative Delta and wave volume counts akin to the Weis Wave. You could also use Median Lines if you are proficient with them.

Hope that helps and if you've any further questions feel free to post, or PM me, and I'll be happy to answer as best/if, I can!

SS

I use the Weis Wave indicator, Market Balance for footprint charts and some Acme stuff for Volume profile. I don't have Acme's footprint chart but am thinking of getting it. I've tried Gomi's and it is good but you need to leave your machine running and record the data. I had some problems with some of my charts so stopped using Gomi's.
MTP would be nice but a little pricey for me right now. I'd seen some other MTP charts but didn't look like it automatically counted the waves, I guess this is in the most recent version.

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  #27 (permalink)
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Is the mentioned "Footprint" chart an part of the "Acme Volume Impression Pack"?

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  #28 (permalink)
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MTP desiderata

Just thought I'd throw up a couple of things I've found MTP to be useful for that they don't teach.

Firstly, the old saw about support becoming resistance and vice versa. It is worth keeping an eye on key prior levels for this change of behaviour and they often 'explain' why price stops and reverses mid-way between two current DPs. The most important are typically those from the reaction low prior to a reversal high and vice versa for a low

Secondly, MTP suggests using the 15m chart for trend determination for intra-day trading. It is always worth paying attention to the DPs off the last high and low of the prior RTH session as well as the first DPs of the current session as they will often give clues as to the direction/nature of the day's trade.

SS

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812)
Attached Thumbnails
Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_daily_s_and_r.png   Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_key_dps.png  
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  #29 (permalink)
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flipper26 View Post
I use the Weis Wave indicator, Market Balance for footprint charts and some Acme stuff for Volume profile. I don't have Acme's footprint chart but am thinking of getting it. I've tried Gomi's and it is good but you need to leave your machine running and record the data. I had some problems with some of my charts so stopped using Gomi's.
MTP would be nice but a little pricey for me right now. I'd seen some other MTP charts but didn't look like it automatically counted the waves, I guess this is in the most recent version.

Hi Flipper,

The tick data issue in NT7 with Gomi's indies has now been resolved I believe as some clever soul has created a recorded that will back-fill. I've not checked it out yet as I swapped to IRT.

My MTP is v6.5 from a few years ago and I think there's a new v7 out which may be substantially different. It won't put waves on the chart automatically, but it's only a matter of a couple of clicks to project them, either what the software 'sees' or you select manually. Personally I've never found EW much use, but I can see the merit of Steve's 'isolation' approach.

I don't think they do a trial, which is a pity, as it's a fair chunk of cash to stump up and find that it just doesn't work for you as it does for someone like Steve. The stand-alone software is pretty restrictive in terms of other charting functionality eg I like to use median lines as an adjunct and as a frame for probable price direction and for pull-backs, but they're not in the software. The add-on for NT7 would be a better option I think.

For want of a better place, I've tacked on some charts that try and show how the wave system can be used to frame price levels to watch for reversal signs.

Regards

SS

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812)
Attached Thumbnails
Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_15m_1.png   Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_15m_2.png   Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_15m_3.png   Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_15m_4.png   Volume Profile and MTPredictor-mtp_15m_5.png  
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  #30 (permalink)
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Koepisch View Post
Is the mentioned "Footprint" chart an part of the "Acme Volume Impression Pack"?


SisyphusStone View Post
Just thought I'd throw up a couple of things I've found MTP to be useful for that they don't teach.

Firstly, the old saw about support becoming resistance and vice versa. It is worth keeping an eye on key prior levels for this change of behaviour and they often 'explain' why price stops and reverses mid-way between two current DPs. The most important are typically those from the reaction low prior to a reversal high and vice versa for a low

Secondly, MTP suggests using the 15m chart for trend determination for intra-day trading. It is always worth paying attention to the DPs off the last high and low of the prior RTH session as well as the first DPs of the current session as they will often give clues as to the direction/nature of the day's trade.

SS

@Koepisch, Yes - they cant call it Footprint, that's a trademark of MD, but that's what it is. Yesterday, there were more than three examples of turns at prior drawn EW DPs, drawn in a simlar fashion as @SisyphusStone points out.

I usually don't watch the 15M, because my charts are multiples of 0.618 Fib - like 987, 4181, or 17711 or 75025 (tick or volume) - so I can watch those with NT addon. The standalone will plot multiple waves at the same time, the NT will not. There are a couple of drawing restrictions with NT, so its not that clear of an advantage. Over time, I have found it less restrictive. As one brilliant example, watch 1417 at 350PM, I did not take this due to time of day, but maybe I should have

This works better in ES, NQ, YM or ZN....not as well in news driven markets of 6E, it works horribly in that spastic puppy CL (don't even try it there)

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PS - I wrote "sellers in control" on the chart, that is incorrect, a better way to say it is "buyers trapped". Incidentally, there is another OF pattern where sellers were trapped for a 3pointer, on the same chart, can anyone spot it?


Last edited by Deucalion; December 1st, 2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Added content
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