Webinar: Understanding Order Flow with MarketDelta Footprint and Anthony Drager - MarketDelta | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Webinar: Understanding Order Flow with MarketDelta Footprint and Anthony Drager
Updated: Views / Replies:9,596 / 29
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:3

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 3  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Webinar: Understanding Order Flow with MarketDelta Footprint and Anthony Drager

  #21 (permalink)
Elite, not Elitist :)
San Diego
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: CL, ES, NQ
 
BeachTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 339 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 153 given, 401 received

I just watched a recording of this webinar (I work full time so I never get to see these live). It was great! Anthony explains things really well. I now have a much better understanding of why the markets move like they do, how traders get trapped, etc. He also really made me think about trade targets, i.e. it is much easier to make 20 ticks on the ES by trading 4 lots to 5 ticks than trading 1 lot to 20 ticks.

Reply With Quote
 
  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


BeachTrader View Post
He also really made me think about trade targets, i.e. it is much easier to make 20 ticks on the ES by trading 4 lots to 5 ticks than trading 1 lot to 20 ticks.

It is most definitely faster to make the 20 ticks, but the risk is also 4x greater, with slightly more overhead in transaction costs. Anthony referred to a 20 tick ES trade as a "home run" so that should give you an idea of his time horizon--extremely small. To have such a short time horizon one must have a very high level of accuracy on the entry, with probably something like a 70-80% win rate to consider it a viable way to trade. I think that in general, most traders would do well to have a well-timed entry, but do it such that the idea of the trade has a larger potential target/profit. Many traders already tend to take the best trades off way too early, and the challenge is that no matter how big the profits are, the loss part of the equation has to remain smaller. So if you reduce the target to 5 ticks, the losses need to be smaller too, or else ridiculously infrequent. I'm not advocating only going for large wins; but I'm saying that if the market happens to be strong and you're in it, and you have the tiger by the tail, why get out at 5 ticks when you could wait 5 minutes and double your money?

Trading 4x size with smaller targets sounds easier, but I think actually trying this approach for a week or two and being honest with the results will often lead to the conclusion that it's much easier to jump in and out, with such a "zoomed in" view, and the scratches and 1 tick losses add up a lot more quickly with such an increase in size, and that at the end of the day one can easily become lost in the trees.

With my own anecdotal experience (and therefore perhaps meaningless to anyone but me), I have had the easiest time making money when the market actually makes some move in my direction, and this is whether it's a range day or a more directional day. Money can be made scalping for ticks, but when I do this, at the end of the day I wind up feeling like I have worked WAY too hard for less than if I had just observed what the market is trying to do as a whole and gotten with that move, while at the same time taking profits and adding back in when reasonable. I think that these pit-turned-screen traders often have a hard time seeing beyond a few ticks because the role of most pit traders was the middle man and the game was for a few ticks. But we are in a different world than existed in trading even 5 years ago, and the game is not the same as it was 10-15 years ago. Sorry for the ramble, but only an honest trial of this approach will tell you if it's a worthwhile approach for you. Practice tells me that generally, it's harder work for less money, though it certainly can feel safer because the time of market exposure is shorter. But that's only my experience, and may differ from yours.

Reply With Quote
 
  #23 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,354 given, 83,237 received


My position is simple: scalping is many times more difficult than day trading.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #24 (permalink)
Elite, not Elitist :)
San Diego
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: CL, ES, NQ
 
BeachTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 339 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 153 given, 401 received

Yes I am not a scalper either. But I will consider scaling out a little earlier and not always going for the home run. I believe Anthony said he leaves the last third of his position for the 5 points or more. I will re-watch it.

Reply With Quote
 
  #25 (permalink)
Elite Member
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker/Data: Several
Favorite Futures: ES CL ZB
 
Posts: 370 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 218 given, 369 received


Big Mike View Post
My position is simple: scalping is many times more difficult than day trading.

Mike

And... I'll bet you a dollar that I can tell you what the weather will be in a given location 20 minutes from now. But I wouldn't bet you a nickel on a prediction for tomorrow.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
 
  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


timefreedom View Post
And... I'll bet you a dollar that I can tell you what the weather will be in a given location 20 minutes from now. But I wouldn't bet you a nickel on a prediction for tomorrow.

The point is clear from your example, but weather is in no way similar to financial markets. With the weather, anyone can tell you what the weather will be like with 99% accuracy 20 minutes from now. But reality shows that most traders cannot predict where the market will be 20 minutes from now with much better than 50% accuracy; and, in that equation there is volatility to consider, so just predicting it will be 10 ticks higher in 20 minutes is not enough--we must predict that it will not go down 30 ticks and back up 40 ticks to achieve that +10, for example.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
  #27 (permalink)
Elite Member
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker/Data: Several
Favorite Futures: ES CL ZB
 
Posts: 370 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 218 given, 369 received


josh View Post
The point is clear from your example, but weather is in no way similar to financial markets. With the weather, anyone can tell you what the weather will be like with 99% accuracy 20 minutes from now. But reality shows that most traders cannot predict where the market will be 20 minutes from now with much better than 50% accuracy; and, in that equation there is volatility to consider, so just predicting it will be 10 ticks higher in 20 minutes is not enough--we must predict that it will not go down 30 ticks and back up 40 ticks to achieve that +10, for example.

Actually, weather is quite similar to financial markets. However, I am unwilling to argue the point. I make my living scalping. Do some research and you'll find... well... I'll just leave it at this: just because the owner of this fantastic trading forum decides to day trade using market profile, that in no way means that it's the best / only (or even a viable) approach. If you are a hedge fund, or placing trades with institutional backed financing, then you'll have to live with day/position trades. If you are a retail trader, you better learn to manage your risk carefully via scalping - unless you're willing to trade in sim and pretend that someday after you retire from your "real" job you'll somehow morph into a successful trader.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
 
  #28 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,332 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 4,579 given, 10,313 received


josh View Post
we must predict that it will not go down 30 ticks and back up 40 ticks to achieve that +10, for example.

good example showing that you would be better off with a 5 tick target / 5 tick stop, than a 20 tick target / 20 tick stop. both losing trades, but only losing 5 ticks


timefreedom View Post
Actually, weather is quite similar to financial markets. However, I am unwilling to argue the point. I make my living scalping. Do some research and you'll find... well... I'll just leave it at this: just because the owner of this fantastic trading forum decides to day trade using market profile, that in no way means that it's the best / only (or even a viable) approach. If you are a hedge fund, or placing trades with institutional backed financing, then you'll have to live with day/position trades. If you are a retail trader, you better learn to manage your risk carefully via scalping - unless you're willing to trade in sim and pretend that someday after you retire from your "real" job you'll somehow morph into a successful trader.

yes, this is a very important point. especially difficult if holding overnight when market is closed for an hour.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
 
  #29 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,354 given, 83,237 received

A more appropriate thread to debate on scalping vs day trading is here:

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/23792-who-makes-more-money-scalpers-point-traders.html

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #30 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


Posted here instead:
https://futures.io/traders-hideout/23792-who-makes-more-money-scalpers-point-traders-11.html#post328241

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > Webinar: Understanding Order Flow with MarketDelta Footprint and Anthony Drager

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Webinar: Order Flow Techniques for Day Traders, Multi-part webinar Big Mike The Elite Circle 152 October 6th, 2016 08:35 AM
Anthony Drager Market Delta ES room ? John E Trading Reviews and Vendors 36 January 4th, 2016 06:54 PM
Order Flow help! FredyMegaG The Elite Circle 24 February 12th, 2014 02:06 PM
Webinar: Order Flow/Tape Reading (The New Pit) - John Hoagland Big Mike Traders Hideout 26 December 6th, 2012 02:26 PM
Order Flow Journal Anagami Elite Trading Journals 18 May 24th, 2012 12:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:42 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.15 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.227.51.103