This seems like its going to get into a lot of "he said, she said". Simply put, the followers of DbPhoenix or himself is not providing any evidence or demonstration of how they are using the material to trade profitably. Those against him will likewise not be able to provide any viable reason for why it doesn't or can't work.
Given that his approach seems to suggest an easy way to trade profitably, which is quite an outrageous claim, I do think the onus is on the person making an outrageous claim to provide proof. Isn't this how it goes for outrageous claims?
Perhaps those who find his material beneficial could put up some charts and demonstrate how they used the method to trade profitably. Saying his stuff works without showing how they use it is just as good as saying it doesn't work and moving on.
To me part of the problem is one of respect and consideration. @DbPhoenix posts a ton which for the most part I think is good to get involved like that. But if one is going to use the forum to such a great extent which has some kind of a cost involved ...a server has to store all the info generated by all this posting a moderator @Big Mike in most cases I'm sure does some kind of work related to this in the background its only respectful to join for the super small infinitesimal fee of $100. Paid just once that's it for life. This business can be considered (at least I consider it) a root business. Meaning the point is mainly to just create wealth cash money. There is no customer service no warranty work no endless meetings no product blue prints, water cooler conversations etc.....At least for the vast majority of us retail traders. $100 is right next to nothing in this business. Complete peanuts a drop in the bucket. And for someone like @DbPhoenix that sure talks a good game and makes it seem like he has got this all figured out $100 should be very easy to part with and at his current rate will soon be less than 20 cents per post..... for life..... Heck just tonight I tipped the guy who hung two chandeliers in my house $70 because he was one of the sweetest kindest guys around and did great. Point is in this life if you'er generous you will attract generousness if you'er disrespectful and are looking for a free ride just wanting to take take take and not pay for what you are using its not healthy for the soul of a human being. Yes in another setting something other than trading DbPhoenix can be considered very generous in regard to his time and even here to some degree. But the combination of several factors already stated: non-pro free charting software, lacking direct trade results, huge use of the forum as a free member unlike @Schaefer for example who has 9 post since 2012 or @Iamdom who has 6 posts since July 2015 both as free members. Tells the seasoned that something seems fishy. Like a Tom Busby....lol (I'm speaking first hand knowledge here...can you say 103pt ES 3 lot loser spanning over a month with my cash.....lol...lesson learned!!!)
@DbPhoenix I urge you to join futures.io (formerly BMT) as an Elite member for its paltry asking sum and witness freeing yourself in a small way from the fetters of this world.
Doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will. Perfect: the enemy of Done. per·fec·tion·ist: ultimately one lacking self-confidence
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
I'm saddened to see this happen here. I thought an exchange of free flowing ideas would be welcomed here and SLA discussions would thrive. DB is already paying it forward by posting and discussing his interpretation of PA using Wyckoff's teachings. Raschke even quotes Wyckoff as an inspiration, I guess she must be ridiculous too. So many other threads cjbooth perry come to mind were allowed without question of sim or live results and they were given a webinar series to promote and discuss. Why all the hate he receives is beyond me. Read the material first before you bash it. If it doesn't work for you then move on. I appreciate your posts DB, your teachings have helped me as a trader, maybe its back to the ghost town of TL but it would be a shame.
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I get email from Charge.Org all the time urges me to add my click for various causes. I costs me nothing to click for cause. But did I click on all of them? No. The point is I only click only when I want to even if it costs nothing.
Last edited by cory; August 11th, 2015 at 09:56 AM.
I've been running into @DbPhoenix on the internet for at least 15 years, and if memory of the usenet days serves, I'd say closer to 20. While I cannot remember if he has always been an explicit proponent of Wyckoff, I do recall that even in his days of using indicators he was still very much what I would consider to have been a "price action" trader. To me, that counts as "seasoned" far more than how long or how much one might have posted to one particular forum or blog.
One might look to Wyckoff, or instead to Livermore, or to William O'Neil, or Nicolas Darvas, or Stanley Kroll, or Victor Sperandeo, or to Linda Raschke, and so on. How long ago any of them were trading or writing about the markets matters only if one believes (as many apparently do) that the markets have fundamentally changed and that price, volume, supply, demand, and let me mention once again price itself has little or no informational value to one trading these markets. But whether the markets have changed at such a fundamental level is not a question for a thread about Wyckoff's methodology, but should have its own discussion elsewhere.
As far as I can tell, the OP is not trying to sell anyone anything. As to whether he trades or not, it matters not at all to me. He is, after all, offering Wyckoff's writings free of charge and sharing his own interpretation of those writings for all to read. It is up to me, as it is to each and every one coming across this thread to decide for him or herself whether reading Wyckoff at all is worth the effort, and if so, then for each to do his or her level best to come to one's own understanding of the text.
I have largely been an infrequent visitor here. There has not been much of interest to me here at futures.io (formerly BMT) (or at any trading forum, for that matter). Of course, there has been some, e.g. @DionysusToast and @FuturesTrader71. But by and large, like most of these forums, there just isn't much value being posted. But I will say this, @BigMike: Having @DbPhoenix's contributions here, especially the discussion of the original Wyckoff course, can only add value and, very likely, readership to your forum.
Last edited by cygnetnoir; August 11th, 2015 at 10:14 AM.
Reason: changed "Once" to "One"
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There was a guy who stopped posting a while ago who was one of the most prolific posters on futures.io (formerly BMT). His journal was over 1000 pages long. Every day he would post winning trade after winning trade, 30, 40, 50 ticks of profit at a time, often with entries timed perfectly. About every 10 pages he would post a 10 tick loser. He made a point of covering up his daily P&L and number of contracts traded and he never posted broker statements. He spoke with the utmost authority and often treated members with disrespect. Whenever his success was questioned he shot back with all kinds of indignation. And yet, he never got nearly the push back that this OP is getting.
If a person is talking theory I'll listen to them as long as it makes sense. I don't care if they're in sim, live or even trade at all. There might be an idea, a nugget that I can incorporated into my plan, or explore further. This is what idea sharing is about. In the journal mentioned earlier, though I knew the poster was full of shit it lead me to explore market profile and the opening range.
Where I have a problem is when a person claims to be making money or claims all kinds of winning trades without substantiation, because now we're talking fact. This is why I show my full daily charts with trade markers and post weekly and monthly broker statements. There are posters on futures.io (formerly BMT) right now who show nothing but winning trades with no substantiation.
I personally think the Db adds value to the site. He's respectful, eloquent and giving of his time. He's not claiming to be a great trader, claiming trades, or asking for money. I am free to take or leave anything he says. Some might have a big problem with the method he is discussing and question its effectiveness, but we're all big boys and girls. We can decide for ourselves what we take or leave.
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i guess , most people who fail and or put soo much effort in " deciphering" the markets and how to succesfully trade them,
want to make everyone else to belive that indeed , the markets are "rocket sience" just to keep their ego in play..
then one man comes arround and tells you "if you can draw a straight line" which btw. a kid is capable to do and hence "they" dont want to give itself the nakedness to break off and thus , bash and redicule
I can just hope, that @DbPhoenix does not stop posting here.
If you just read the thread - or even a few of the gems posted here - then it should be obvious that this is REAL and a REAL help for people trying to find the way. REAL time trades are BS. Instead it is everyones responsibility to test the stuff he so steadily and eloquently presented over years and years.
On the other hand, except oft dragging the people to this forum, there is little business to make for the owner. No one is really interested in the indicators of the Elite section and also I guess that DBP is not interested in holding a webinar explaining that whatever software is essential for his trading - because he uses just his broker platform obviously...
But in general every owner of a platform like this should be happy to have contributors like DBP on board...!
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Considering the majority of traders lose it is no surprise to me that people gravitate towards this guy. He, in hindsight, is able to perfectly explain the market by simply drawing straight lines. It's just that simple. Of course, it's a terrible way to trade and there is an obvious reason why this guy doesn't post a single trade or even make a bull or a bear case. It's because he doesn't trade or not very well if he does.
Once you start to learn that trading is about embracing uncertainty and defining risks you will start to understand successful trading. It's not about having some perfect formula to decipher and "understand" markets. It's about being able to define a spot as a good trade and execute it from start to finish. This guy does none of that. DB post your trades for a week and maybe you would change some minds. Instead, you're like a religious figure with a mob of fervent and naive followers that want to be led to the holy land of perfect trading and totally knowledge of all market moves. It's a joke to anyone with a clue.
Last edited by BarfMcGee; August 14th, 2015 at 08:37 AM.
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