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charlie hebdo

  #11 (permalink)
 
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Fat Tails View Post
Could you please list some examples to discuss?

You will go to Jail in Germany for denying the holocaust.

In France - where Charlie Hebdo resides, you can go to jail for anti-semetic remarks.

Racist remarks and other forms of hate speech are also outlawed in many places.

You are not free to express any opinion in most Western Country.

To test this out, go to Washington and stand outside the White House and express the opinion that Obama should be hung, drawn and quartered...

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  #12 (permalink)
Bnnf
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And that's from Wikipedia, not the most revolutionary stuff.

I believe we western civilization have no lessons to give to any other one, medias play a big role in making us think this can't be better elsewhere.

I'm not that sure about separation of powers either, would you find sense in my thinking if i told you i believe Justice has been given the mission to preserve the order established during western revolutions and that the means given are law and police, who has the monopoly of violence ?

About religions isn't the point of religion to link people ? What is the difference between linking people with god or linking them with atheism ? Isn't atheism the religion of republic ?

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  #13 (permalink)
 
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DionysusToast View Post
You will go to Jail in Germany for denying the holocaust.

In France - where Charlie Hebdo resides, you can go to jail for anti-semetic remarks.

Racist remarks and other forms of hate speech are also outlawed in many places.

You are not free to express any opinion in most Western Country.

To test this out, go to Washington and stand outside the White House and express the opinion that Obama should be hung, drawn and quartered...


Good, those are extreme cases, where freedom of speech collides with fundamental values of the society.

Freedom ends where it adversely affects others.

Freedom of speech is needed to overcome information asymmetry and to expose lies and double-speak.

It can be abused to proliferate lies (propaganda) in order to hide self-serving interests of a minority.


The case of denying the holocaust has been widely discussed in Germany and the question has been taken to the constitutional court. You will find the exact wording and the reasons, why an exception from the general principle of "freedom of expression" was necessary.

https://www.hrr-strafrecht.de/hrr/bverfg/08/1-bvr-2150-08.pdf

Given the historical context, this exception is well justified and has found a broad majority accross political parties and institutions. The point here is that there is an overwhelming evidence - well documented - that the holocaust has not been invented. Freedom of expression sometimes collides with truth - if you believe that there is such a thing as truth and moral norms.

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  #14 (permalink)
 
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Extreme to me, you & the countries involved.

Maybe not extreme to anyone.

I don't mind holocaust deniers any more than I care about 9/11 truthers or other conspiracy theorists. I think they are kooks.

I come from Thailand where this chicken joint opened up to no furor whatsoever. "HFC"



Only when the western press got hold of it did anyone here even think it was offensive...

I see people wearing Osama Bin Laden t-shirts - not so often now in the years after 9/11 - there were plenty around and I honestly felt like punching them.

They hold opinions different to our own. That makes them offensive to us but not offensive to all.

Therein lies the problem with free speech - it's OK unless - and who defines the rules?

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  #15 (permalink)
 
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DionysusToast View Post
Extreme to me, you & the countries involved.

Maybe not extreme to anyone.

I don't mind holocaust deniers any more than I care about 9/11 truthers or other conspiracy theorists. I think they are kooks.

I come from Thailand where this chicken joint opened up to no furor whatsoever. "HFC"



Only when the western press got hold of it did anyone here even think it was offensive...

I see people wearing Osama Bin Laden t-shirts - not so often now in the years after 9/11 - there were plenty around and I honestly felt like punching them.

They hold opinions different to our own. That makes them offensive to us but not offensive to all.

Therein lies the problem with free speech - it's OK unless - and who defines the rules?


The Thai have sided with Japanese and Germans during World War II. There is no priority to clear the historical backlog.

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  #16 (permalink)
 
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Fat Tails View Post
The Thai have sided with Japanese and Germans during World War II. There is no priority to clear the historical backlog.


Fact is Thailand doesn't teach much of any history outside of it's own borders.

Most young people here have no clue what Hitler did at all. You would be amazed at the things you and I take for granted that Thais know nothing about whatsoever.

You can buy books on the holocaust and WWII in Thai in bookstores here - just no-one bothers to teach much of world history in the schools here.

So, this isn't about Thailand teaching a different version of history - it's with them not teaching it at all.

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DionysusToast View Post
Fact is Thailand doesn't teach much of any history outside of it's own borders.

Most young people here have no clue what Hitler did at all. You would be amazed at the things you and I take for granted that Thais know nothing about whatsoever.

You can buy books on the holocaust and WWII in Thai in bookstores here - just no-one bothers to teach much of world history in the schools here.

So, this isn't about Thailand teaching a different version of history - it's with them not teaching it at all.

This is also what I understood when this when public. See a good paper on it.

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  #18 (permalink)
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I used to live in northern Thailand (Chiang Mai - Maesai etc.) many years ago now.

I have no doubt that Thai's would not run into a lot of European history however... they do watch movies. Now you get random weird stuff for sure, I remember asking why the disco in Maesai was called "B.M." and then having to ask..why Bat Man was a good disco name

I have a suspicion.. Northern Thailand is absolutely packed with ex-pat Germans (retired, engineers etc), many have Thai wives and mixed race families.

I think there is a strong possibility that some teenager(s) started the Hitler iconography as a joke just to annoy their dads. I have a feeling I may even know the little....

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