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Downloadable DLL's on the site
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Downloadable DLL's on the site

  #1 (permalink)
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Downloadable DLL's on the site

Guys here is the deal.

I have opposed allowing DLL's on the forum since the beginning of the forum (coming up on 2 years). My reasons are primarily two big issues: 1) malicious code, and 2) lack of open sharing.

#1 is the biggest concern. With DLL's, it is simply very easy for a programmer to write malicious code. And since we're dealing with financial stuff here, this could have some major, major impact to people.

#2 is about open sharing. If a poster shares only the DLL, and not the source, it greatly reduces/eliminates the possibility of expanding on that in the future, unless the original poster does it. You can look around futures.io (formerly BMT) and see that many indicators have gone through dozens of revisions over the years, that wouldn't be possible if the source code was never shared.

Yes, you can use Reflector or other tools to view DLL code as long as it isn't obfuscated. But 99% of people on the forum don't even understand that sentence, much less being capable of doing anything about it.

When you buy some indicator from a vendor, they likely send it to you as a DLL. It is also likely an obfuscated DLL. This means you have only your trust in that vendor that they aren't doing anything bad. Possibilities of bad things include sending your financial information, your trades, or any and all private information you can imagine from your computer. This, and more, can all be done easily with an obfuscated DLL and only the most technically oriented computer guys would be the wiser.

OK so now here we are today --- the moderators fought with me on this and convinced me to allow DLL's on the forum, saying that if we didn't allow them then it will limit sharing. So I've gone ahead and caved in and am allowing DLL's. I modified the terms and conditions of the site to have a stern warning about them, and I also am sending a stern warning for every new user who signs up in their Welcome Email.

What I ask from you is that 1) don't share a DLL here unless absolutely necessary, 2) include the source code every single time -- never share just a DLL and no source, 3) never obfuscate your DLL's, 4) never put vendor licensing in your DLL's, and 5) if you see a questionable DLL on the site, Report it to the moderators for prompt removal.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

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Last edited by Big Mike; January 9th, 2011 at 05:06 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Guys here is the deal.

I have opposed allowing DLL's on the forum since the beginning of the forum (coming up on 2 years). My reasons are primarily two big issues: 1) malicious code, and 2) lack of open sharing.

#1 is the biggest concern. With DLL's, it is simply very easy for a programmer to write malicious code. And since we're dealing with financial stuff here, this could have some major, major impact to people.

#2 is about open sharing. If a poster shares only the DLL, and not the source, it greatly reduces/eliminates the possibility of expanding on that in the future, unless the original poster does it. You can look around futures.io (formerly BMT) and see that many indicators have gone through dozens of revisions over the years, that wouldn't be possible if the source code was never shared.

Yes, you can use Reflector or other tools to view DLL code as long as it isn't obfuscated. But 99% of people on the forum don't even understand that sentence, much less being capable of doing anything about it.

When you buy some indicator from a vendor, they likely send it to you as a DLL. It is also likely an obfuscated DLL. This means you have only your trust in that vendor that they aren't doing anything bad. Possibilities of bad things include sending your financial information, your trades, or any and all private information you can imagine from your computer. This, and more, can all be done easily with an obfuscated DLL and only the most technically oriented computer guys would be the wiser.

OK so now here we are today --- the moderators fought with me on this and convinced me to allow DLL's on the forum, saying that if we didn't allow them then it will limit sharing. So I've gone ahead and caved in and am allowing DLL's. I modified the terms and conditions of the site to have a stern warning about them, and I also am sending a stern warning for every new user who signs up in their Welcome Email.

What I ask from you is that 1) don't share a DLL here unless absolutely necessary, 2) include the source code every single time -- never share just a DLL and no source, 3) never obfuscate your DLL's, 4) never put vendor licensing in your DLL's, and 5) if you see a questionable DLL on the site, Report it to the moderators for prompt removal.

Mike

Hi Mike,

It's your house and I will follow your rules, basically I don't agree, if DLL is limiting think about the reverse process how many new applications will be DLL instead could have been open source, how are you going to manage condition 1) don't share a DLL here unless absolutely necessary

If sharing additional DLL is the question this can always be done by mentioning it with an external link

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  #3 (permalink)
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redratsal View Post
Hi Mike,

It's your house and I will follow your rules, basically I don't agree, if DLL is limiting think about the reverse process how many new applications will be DLL instead could have been open source, how are you going to manage condition 1) don't share a DLL here unless absolutely necessary

If sharing additional DLL is the question this can always be done by mentioning it with an external link

I don't understand your reply.

As I said in my post, we are now allowing DLL's as the moderators fought with me on this and changed my mind to allow them.

Posting the DLL's on an external site is pointless, just creates more problems.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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6)
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  #4 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I don't understand your reply.

As I said in my post, we are now allowing DLL's as the moderators fought with me on this and changed my mind to allow them.

Posting the DLL's on an external site is pointless, just creates more problems.

Mike

I understood well, actually I don't understand your reply, what I mean is that with the extreme urgence excuse people will start putting Dll's instead of open source.

Don't mind anyway it is just my point of view

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  #5 (permalink)
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If you find people posting DLL's and no open source, then call them out on it in the thread. There is either a good reason for it, or there isn't. If there isn't, then they really aren't welcome here. The site is about sharing so if it is obvious the user isn't genuine about sharing, then why allow him to post. I can't make that argument for you guys on every single attachment uploaded, it will be your job to do it --- if I try to do it, I am the "bad guy" because some people just want the DLL and don't care about anything else. Other people see the importance of open source.

Anyway, I am going to stop replying to this thread for a while. I'll ask the moderators who wanted me to allow this (and remember, I agreed) to come field questions and comments because if it were left to me alone, I still wouldn't be allowing DLL's. But I try to run this site based on not only what I think is best, but what the users think is best as well -- it's a site for the users after all, not for me.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #6 (permalink)
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Curious as to way anyone would want to install a DLL on their computer from an unknown source. Not sure I follow that logic.

Do want to thank Mike for at least putting up all kinds of warning flags before downloading any DLL's. Personally, the only reason I download any NT indicators or strategies is NOT for the indicator or the strategy but for coding education. I don't think I have ever used a publicly downloaded indicator to trade live with the exception of "roonius" News Alert Indicator.

PS, I am not a big NT Fan as I have come to loathe the "That is beyond what NT supports" responses.

Thanks again Mike.

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  #7 (permalink)
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What are the last two cases where we though allowing the .dll should be a good idea ?
#1: @aslan in this thread: he had also put the source code, C++, but how many non-IT users are able to compile it correctly ? In this case a .dll make sense, the user take the file, put it on the right directory, and that's it.
#2: @timmyb in this thread, as he wants to use a library tool for the gauges of his indicator, and this library is not open source.
These two users are here for a while, both have already give a lot of source code, are not using .dll to hide their code but only for technical reasons, so I have no reason to think they will put any malicious code in their .dll.

Now, let's see what is going to happen next.
If the .dll posted are posted for bad reasons, we will remove them.
I remind to everyone that if something looks suspicious, .dll or not, there is the "report post" button on each post, so everybody can help us to detect this.
And if we need to remove too much of them, then we might change our minds, and stop allowing these .dll...

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  #8 (permalink)
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I'm ignorant of the potential dangers of importing a DLL.

Would appreciate some background. :sos:

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  #9 (permalink)
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Poocher View Post
I'm ignorant of the potential dangers of importing a DLL.

Would appreciate some background. :sos:

The idea is I can hide some code that will run and cause some damage. For example, maybe I can get your account number and send it back to me, or worse yet, make some trades.... Basically, anything bad can happen, because you are letting someone else put code on your computer that will run on your computer in a trusted fashion.

Bottom line, it is generally not a good idea - except for mine ;-)

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  #10 (permalink)
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Thanks Aslan.

And I'd trust your DLL's for sure.

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