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Lawsuit: AMP Futures Trading aka AMP Global Clearing


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Lawsuit: AMP Futures Trading aka AMP Global Clearing

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  #1 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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This is a public notice that AMP GLOBAL CLEARING aka AMP FUTURES TRADING has filed a lawsuit against futures.io (formerly BMT) regarding posts on futures.io (formerly BMT). This is not the first time AMP TRADING has used attorneys in an attempt to manipulate what is shared on the site.

Attached to this thread you will find PDF copies of court documents. I plan to post further public filings as they are filed with the court.

Unfortunately, attempts to settle this dispute have so far not produced a resolution.

This means I am preparing to go to trial. I will be fighting to preserve the rights of posters on futures.io (formerly BMT) to freely express their opinions and share their experiences.

Due to this, I am starting a fundraiser campaign to raise money and support the fight.

I will provide instructions shortly on how you can send funds, stay tuned.

PLEASE NOTE, CONTRIBUTIONS TO futures.io (formerly BMT) ARE NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

You may donate using this link:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=R94VQ7TQ63GXA

Tip

UPDATE JULY 24 2014:

BIG MIKE TRADING HAS WON, AMP HAS LOST. THE JUDGE RULED THE CASE IS DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.

See post #20:




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Attached is the Verified Complaint (PDF).

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Attached is the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (PDF).

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 Big Mike 
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I have added a button to the top of futures.io (formerly BMT) pages that says "Support our legal defense fund". If you would like to support our legal defense fund, you can click on that button and it will take you to PayPal.

You can enter any gift amount you like from $1 to $14,000.00. This gift is not tax deductible.

I know I can count on the support of the community, so thank you in advance.

Mike

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 Big Mike 
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I will remove the "Support our legal defense fund" button once we have raised an amount approximate to the current legal costs.

It may be a while...

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Attached is the Motion to Transfer to Chancery Division (PDF).

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 Big Mike 
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Attached is the Motion to Dismiss the Plaintiff's Verified Complaint (PDF).

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For sake of clarity: HOLLAND & KNIGHT represents BIG MIKE TRADING.

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 Big Mike 
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At the March 10 hearing Judge Flannery notified us that the case had been transferred to another judge within the same division. Therefore, we re-noticed the same two motions to be heard before the new judge on March 17.

PDF copies attached.

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Lawsuit: AMP Futures Trading aka AMP Global Clearing-re-notice-motion-mot-transfer-.pdf   Lawsuit: AMP Futures Trading aka AMP Global Clearing-re-notice-motion-mtd-.pdf  
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The hearing was held on March 17, 2014. The parties agreed to a briefing schedule regarding Big Mike Trading's Motion to Dismiss the Complaint. AMP's response is due April 21, 2014, the reply is due May 12, 2014 and the hearing is May 20, 2014.

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After requesting a 5 week period to respond to futures.io (formerly BMT)'s Motion to Dismiss the Complaint, AMP filed a motion requesting 14 additional days to file its response.

Their "Motion to Extend the Time to Respond to The Motion to Dismiss" is attached.

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Hi guys,

I was hoping this lawsuit would over by now, but unfortunately it is not.

I want to thank all of you that have helped with the fundraising efforts in respect to the legal expenses incurred for defending against AMP.

As of this post, we have not raised enough funds to cover the legal expenses incurred. I will stop the fundraising should we get to the point where the funds raised are approximate to the funds spent.

Thanks for your support.

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 Big Mike 
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The Court entered the attached scheduling order today. The key dates are as follows:

AMP's Response is due May 6, 2014
futures.io (formerly BMT)'s Reply is due May 27, 2014
Hearing on the Motion is set for June 13, 2014

PDF attached.

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 Big Mike 
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Attached is AMP's Response to Big Mike Trading's Motion To Dismiss the Complaint.

futures.io (formerly BMT)'s Reply is due May 27, 2014.

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 Big Mike 
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Attached is futures.io (formerly BMT)'s response to AMP's response, regarding the Motion to Dismiss.

Hearing on the Motion is set for June 13, 2014.

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 Big Mike 
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The Court heard the parties oral argument on June 13, 2014 and set a ruling date for July 24, 2014.

A transcript will be posted once available.

PDF attached.

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 Big Mike 
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I received the transcript today from my attorney.

It is below.



























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 Big Mike 
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I apologize that in the above post the PDF document has a "black" thumbnail. This is a software error that has been occurring on a large number of PDF's on the forum, and cannot be resolved until a new software update. If you click on the black thumbnail, you will download the PDF document which is in fact totally legible.

For this reason I embedded each individual page of the PDF above.

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 Big Mike 
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It was brought to my attention today that this thread did not contain a link for users to make a donation to the legal defense fund.

I have added the link to post #1, but am posting it below as well:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=R94VQ7TQ63GXA

As of this posting, the funds raised by donation are not equal to the expense of the case. Thank you to those that have made a donation and to everyone for their support.

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 Big Mike 
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Today the judge issued the ruling, an excerpt is below (bold and underline are mine):


Quoting 
Order: For the reasons stated above, Defendants' motions to dismiss Plaintiffs First Amended Complaint pursuant to 5/2-6-19 and 5/2-6 15 are sustained. Plaintiffs case is dismissed in its entirety with prejudice. This is a final order pursuant to Illinois Supreme Court Rule 301.

Attached is the PDF, below are the pages of the document in image form.






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 Big Mike 
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From Wikipedia on "prejudice":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_


Quoting 
Prejudice is a legal term with different meanings when used in criminal, civil or common law. In general, an action taken with prejudice indicates misconduct on the part of the party who filed the claim and forbids that party from refiling the case, while without prejudice often refers to procedural problems where the party may refile.

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 Big Mike 
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Now that the case is dismissed and we have won/AMP has lost, I am opening this thread to the public.

You may post in this thread as of now.

Mike

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 fossil 
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Now that the case is dismissed and we have won/AMP has lost, I am opening this thread to the public.

You may post in this thread as of now.

Mike

Good to read that! Gratulation well done.

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 ktrader 
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Now that the case is dismissed and we have won/AMP has lost, I am opening this thread to the public.

You may post in this thread as of now.

Mike

Congratulations on the win.

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  #25 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Our fund raiser for the legal fund has not raised sufficient funds to cover the cost of defending against AMP.

As of this post, we need to raise another ~ $7,500 (approximate because I don't have a final invoice from my attorneys yet).

If you wish to contribute to our legal fund, you can do so here via PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=R94VQ7TQ63GXA

I would like to once again thank everyone that has made a contribution to our legal fund. Once the funds raised are approximately equal to the costs of the case, I will post a notice in this thread.

Mike

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  #26 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Excellent news!

I had read every page of the various filings, and my (uninformed) opinion was that the complaint had no merit, but I'm glad that the judge thought the same.

It's good to have this nonsense no longer hanging over futures.io (formerly BMT).

Well done.

Bob.

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  #27 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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bobwest View Post
It's good to have this nonsense no longer hanging over futures.io (formerly BMT).

Well done.

Bob.

It is good when justice prevails. And the judge agreed in the strongest sense, by issuing the dismissal with prejudice. AMP cannot re-file the suit, so all this should finally be behind us.

It's a big win not just for futures.io (formerly BMT) and our community, but for the entire industry. It's nice to be recognized for standing up and fighting for what is right.

Mike

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 PandaWarrior 
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Congratulations...

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 Daytrader999 
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That's really good news indeed...congrats on your (and finally futures.io (formerly BMT)'s) win Mike!

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 photog53 
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Congratulations!!!
It is always nice to see the good guys win once in a while

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 DarkPoolTrading 
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Awesome news.

The way AMP tries to throw its weight around and their general arrogance and unethical behavior is disgusting. I hope news gets out about this through the various online trading communities. Hopefully new traders looking for a broker will think twice about who they want to do business with when considering AMP.

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 Hulk 
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Terrific job Mike. Very well done.

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 ABCTG   is a Vendor
 
 
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Congratulations, this surely is quiet the relief for you.

Regards,
ABCTG

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 learning0101 
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Congrats Mike! add 1 more reason to have a Party Weekend!!

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  #35 (permalink)
 Zxeses 
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Victory!

Looks like AMP is having a hard month, first NT, now this.. These things come in 3s, wonder whats next :-)

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 Jfairtrade 
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Optimus takes the good, the bad and the ugly..and responds to people even when criticism prevails, and that is how a firm should behave. I don’t like people who sue because they spend their resources on BS instead of advancing their firm. Mike, congrats and hope that this case will set precedence in the legal world

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  #37 (permalink)
 treydog999 
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Congrats. I have been following this carefully. Especially since this was taking place in my hometown and familiar with all firms involved. I hope this sets a legal precedent to protect free speech on forums, and honest reviews/replies. As well as deterring larger firms who will blatantly threaten the little guy with legal action in order to make them bend to their will. Mostly out of fear that they will lose and have to fight a giant. On a personal level, great going to take the fight to them, win or lose that was a gallant step. But winning makes it all the sweeter. As a member of the forum, glad futures.io (formerly BMT) is the way it is and has the balls to keep it that way.

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 futurestrader 
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Congrats Mike

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Rich Independence
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treydog999 View Post
Congrats. I have been following this carefully. Especially since this was taking place in my hometown and familiar with all firms involved. I hope this sets a legal precedent to protect free speech on forums, and honest reviews/replies. As well as deterring larger firms who will blatantly threaten the little guy with legal action in order to make them bend to their will. Mostly out of fear that they will lose and have to fight a giant. On a personal level, great going to take the fight to them, win or lose that was a gallant step. But winning makes it all the sweeter. As a member of the forum, glad futures.io (formerly BMT) is the way it is and has the balls to keep it that way.

Pretty much this.

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 SatchFan 
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Congrats Mike! I'm sure it's great to get that weight off of your shoulder. Time to move forward. Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to futures.io (formerly BMT) 5.0!

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  #41 (permalink)
 Hapster 
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Congrats, Mike...

As a certified shorthand reporter (I create transcripts like those higher up in this thread), we never like to see these cases resolve or settle (big grin) because it means fewer pages for us folks, but in this case, I'll make an exception ;-)

Hap

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  #42 (permalink)
shanemcdonald28
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I remember following the original thread where AMP was being bashed.
AMP was trying to protect their business like they should have.

That poster was trashing them pretty good and I dont blame them for trying to stop him.
That thread was out of control.

Would that thread have been allowed if it was about a sponsor on this site ?

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  #43 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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shanemcdonald28 View Post
I remember following the original thread where AMP was being bashed.
AMP was trying to protect their business like they should have.

That poster was trashing them pretty good and I dont blame them for trying to stop him.
That thread was out of control.

Would that thread have been allowed if it was about a sponsor on this site ?

What thread? Be specific. I have a strong feeling you've not read all the posts and don't have all the facts.

As for sponsors, if you spent a minute searching you would find threads where reviews are posted. Even for site sponsors. And those reviews can be both good or bad, so long as they are genuine. Stop trying to create drama.

Some vendors resort to creating fake accounts and disguising their identity, posting fake reviews. Then they get banned. Some of them don't take it well and act like 5 year olds who had their toys taken away. They go to other websites and whine and cry, and naturally they don't tell the while story about their fraud or deception, or even that they were banned. Instead they just make shit up about the site and try to confuse the issues.

AMP acts like they don't know why they were banned, but it's just an act. They were told, and they also receive the message each time they try to use the site. All of their duplicate accounts also receive that message. It's also documented in the threads for anyone to read and reach their own conclusions.

You should really be careful who you give your allegiance to.

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 SatchFan 
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@Big Mike the link doesn't work correctly. You need to to add the end parenthesis ) after (legal_procedure). Just FYI.

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  #45 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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SatchFan View Post
@Big Mike the link doesn't work correctly. You need to to add the end parenthesis ) after (legal_procedure). Just FYI.

Fixed

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 Itchymoku 
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Time to celebrate

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  #47 (permalink)
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
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Congratulations Mike.

Now hopefully, this will be the end of it and everyone can move on.

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 justtrader 
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What a relief! Justice prevails after all. I am in the process of completing transferring my account to another broker.

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 Beefheart 
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treydog999 View Post
Congrats. I have been following this carefully. Especially since this was taking place in my hometown and familiar with all firms involved. I hope this sets a legal precedent to protect free speech on forums, and honest reviews/replies. As well as deterring larger firms who will blatantly threaten the little guy with legal action in order to make them bend to their will. Mostly out of fear that they will lose and have to fight a giant. On a personal level, great going to take the fight to them, win or lose that was a gallant step. But winning makes it all the sweeter. As a member of the forum, glad futures.io (formerly BMT) is the way it is and has the balls to keep it that way.

I join the crew. Congrats, Mike.

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  #50 (permalink)
 puma 
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I am very glad to see this outcome.

Congrats Mike !
Thank you for doing the work.

... and not to sound too silly:
this is also good for freedom of speech (and freedom of opinion - in this case)

treydog999 said it well: above

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  #51 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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From ET user Pekelo, posted on ET:


Quoting 
Just for the record, Mike let a disgruntled contractor to talk bad about AMP, but when they tried to defend themselves, they were banned. The problem was that the nature of the complaint was very personal and no 3rd party knew who was right or wrong (typical he said/she said case) and it had nothing to do with trading. In short, there was no reason for Mike to provide a sounding board against a company, thus the lawsuit had merit.

I wanted to address this, because it is completely false.

AMP was banned a long time ago, years I believe, well before the post you mention took place. Your facts are completely false. They were banned due to their actions and behaviors on the site, after they were given MULTIPLE warnings. After they were banned, they created more accounts (a violation of our terms). I won't go into details, but lets just say what they did on those accounts was more than reason enough to ban them again and again.

The judge and the law disagree with you. Since the complaint was about AMP, it does have to do with trading. Do you work for AMP or something or are you just that naive in general? If you read the transcript, you will see the judge specifically questioned why Stone wasn't sued. You can read AMP's response and judge for yourself.

Mike

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  #52 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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From ET user bone, on ET:


Quoting 
The fact that the futures.io (formerly BMT) lawsuit was not dismissed and found to have standing to proceed tells you that.

Again, do you work for AMP or are you just that naive?

The lawsuit was dismissed, that was the whole point. It was dismissed with prejudice.

Mike

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  #53 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Big Mike View Post
From ET user Pekelo, posted on ET


Big Mike View Post
From ET user bone, on ET

@Big Mike, while it does serve a limited purpose to respond to these kinds of posts, you shouldn't let it get to you, or spend much energy on it. This could be like an unlimited game of whack-a-mole; whack one and another one pops up.

You're right, and AMP lost the suit. The judge found nothing at all in it that stood up. You would think it would be hard for someone to either misinterpret or misrepresent that, but evidently some people will.

So yes, whack some of those moles, maybe, but the record does not need to be set straight. It is perfectly straight. After a short while, it is obvious that anyone not understanding or misstating that record is either never going to be convinced, or isn't really all that sincere in what they are writing anyway.

The judge gave the verdict, and that is the final word on all this.

Bob.

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  #54 (permalink)
 trader1272 
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Now, the lawyers have to go to collect your fees and costs based on the dismissal. I think its Rule 137:

https://www.novackmacey.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Recovering-Attorney-Fees-for-Defending-Frivolous-Claims-Article-Aug.-2012.pdf

I'm a lawyer in CA, and I'd sure go for it given the state of the CDA law at the time and the stupidity of the JOnes v. Dirty World district court opinion. There's also malicious prosecution:

A malicious prosecution claim “can lead to a more expansive recovery than sanctions, [but] it is also substantially more difficult to navigate successfully,” Mr. Mann and Mr. Haarlow wrote. “To state a claim for malicious prosecution, a plaintiff must demonstrate that (a) he or she won a ‘favorable termination’ of the suit; [t]he defendant brought it (b) without probable cause but (c) with malice, and (d) the plaintiff suffered arrest, seizure of property, or other special damage beyond the normal expense, time, or annoyance arising from an ordinary form of legal controversy.”

In any event, congrats. No AMP business for me, this seemed vindictive.

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  #55 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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futures.io (formerly BMT) HAS WON, AMP HAS LOST. GAME OVER.

It's a shame it took so long. Actually it's a shame they couldn't have just sued Stone instead, but I guess as they put it "he has no money.,.., I can chase that cherry 'til the cows come home."

funny how the world works

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 Fritzk 
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Grats ....

Head up and keep your stick on the ice!
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  #57 (permalink)
 Hulk 
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Big Mike View Post
From ET user Pekelo, posted on ET:



I wanted to address this, because it is completely false.

AMP was banned a long time ago, years I believe, well before the post you mention took place. Your facts are completely false. They were banned due to their actions and behaviors on the site, after they were given MULTIPLE warnings. After they were banned, they created more accounts (a violation of our terms). I won't go into details, but lets just say what they did on those accounts was more than reason enough to ban them again and again.

The judge and the law disagree with you. Since the complaint was about AMP, it does have to do with trading. Do you work for AMP or something or are you just that naive in general? If you read the transcript, you will see the judge specifically questioned why Stone wasn't sued. You can read AMP's response and judge for yourself.

Mike


I have a very hard time wondering why people dont just mind their own business. It is child mentality to have the need to "want to be heard", the need for seeking attention, being at the center of the world and everything revolves around me. I know because I have one at home.

This guy is posting his views on another forum that obviously is a competitor to futures.io (formerly BMT) and his anticipated response to his post is obvious - agreement. The virtual world fuels this behavior even more since people are no longer sitting in front of each other and saying things directly - instead they are taking jabs while shielding themselves behind anonymous names. Cowards and spineless is the category that comes to mind. So much that is said on forums and the virtual world in general that will not be said if the parties involved would be face to face. Very few people have principles and stand by them no matter what and very few have the guts to say what they do and do what they say no matter what. You have demonstrated that Mike. I agree with @bobwest on the whack-a-mole metaphor. Let it go.

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  #58 (permalink)
 Beefheart 
Parma, Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Big Mike View Post
From ET user Pekelo, posted on ET:

... (cut)

The judge and the law disagree with you.

... (cut)

Mike

I have red with attention every line of the documents you have posted, either on futures.io (formerly BMT) and AMP' side. Non just for curiosity, but because I always try to base my personal opinion on solid ground rather than word of mouth. So that if I make a mistake I can't avoid to make, I do it in good faith.
Of course I am glad the judge has closed the case in your favour, so that nobody gets damaged too hard. Even more I like that the decision seems to be very close to the wisdom of who's not familiar with legal technicalisms. I mean, common sense makes me say they pushed this issue too far, showing a quarrelsome attitude most people don't agree with. Finding out that the law (even if it's not my country's law) confirms that view, make me feel good.

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  #59 (permalink)
 spinnybobo 
Crete, IL/USA
 
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hey Mike

congrats on winning this. When I initially read it, it was definitely silly that AMP even tried to go this far. They have the wrong people in charge.

you conquered this because your Big Mike and a good person!

Spencer

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  #60 (permalink)
 Bookworm 
Long Island, NY
 
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Really nice to hear this and for those unfamiliar with the legal terminology: What Is a Dismissal With Prejudice?

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  #61 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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From ET user bone on ET:


Quoting 
And I think many of the comments in this thread, including some of my early comments, are overbearing and possibly unfair. Likewise, Big Mike himself has chosen to take small isolated snippets of what myself and Pekolo have stated in this thread and make hay with them in a big way over on futures.io (formerly BMT). Not the entire post or a link to the entire thread, mind you - just isolated snippets for his convenient talking points while conveniently glossing over some larger and certainly more sensitive issues.

Which, come to think of it, is censorship. And if he had just censored Mr. Stone half as much as he has censored my comments for his abuse and pleasure one might conclude all of this AMP lawsuit nonsense would have been avoided.

Big Mike - Elite Trader

Everyone should go read that thread and reach their own conclusions. It's a band of banned brothers over there

Mike

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  #62 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
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Big Mike View Post
From ET user bone on ET:



Big Mike - Elite Trader

Everyone should go read that thread and reach their own conclusions. It's a band of banned brothers over there

Mike

Well, Mike, I went over there and read every post (to date; I'm not going back).

Not everything that was said was objectionable or wrong, and some posters supported you. I do think that the main critics got the point at issue wrong, which is that the person who runs this kind of site is not responsible or liable for what a poster independently posts. The judge was really clear that AMP had no case, and that there was nothing else at issue, and said so.

There also was some stuff that I don't agree with, but shrugged off. Life's too short to care about some things, and some opinions....

There was, however, one guy who had joined over there in "July 2014" and who had 7 posts (I counted 5 of them on that one thread.) He was foul-mouthed and rudely critical of you. It's obvious that he had just opened an account there in order to do these posts, and had an ax to grind and no scruples about how he ground it.

On futures.io (formerly BMT), the guy would have been banned the first time, for being that rude to anybody. It was an eye-opener to me; I obviously have led a sheltered internet life, being used to site administration that doesn't put up with that kind of thing.

No idea who he is, but I do expect that he's been banned from here (otherwise why the beef?), and I think he has just proved that it was a good idea to do so.

Bob.

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  #63 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
Philadelphia
 
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craptastic's posts are, well craptastic! I think I'd rather read /b/ than have to read the rest of that thread. Man they are really vindictive. Looks like that's Amp's stronghold considering the number of amp ads they have on the site.

R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
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  #64 (permalink)
 tracer888 
Ashburn, VA
 
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Congrats Big Mike! For the money, from what I can tell of the rest of the world, just whip up 1 or 2 indicators with a lot of bells and whistles (Don't forget the arrows and alert for Fat Tails) and you'll be all set !

Seriously though, thank you for defending the rights of the investment / speculator community and providing such a sound island in the middle of a world full of sharks.




Big Mike View Post
Our fund raiser for the legal fund has not raised sufficient funds to cover the cost of defending against AMP.

As of this post, we need to raise another ~ $7,500 (approximate because I don't have a final invoice from my attorneys yet).

If you wish to contribute to our legal fund, you can do so here via PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=R94VQ7TQ63GXA

I would like to once again thank everyone that has made a contribution to our legal fund. Once the funds raised are approximately equal to the costs of the case, I will post a notice in this thread.

Mike


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  #65 (permalink)
 Cachevary 
Russia,Khabarovsk
 
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ET is a damn asylum and bone is the most arrogant person on ET when i had a set of conversation with him,as far as his opinion about the lwasuit is concerned,i`d say this..... 1:11 Welcome to Prime Time! - YouTube

bone,can i ask you smth?



I wish i never registred on ET.

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  #66 (permalink)
 djkiwi 
Mercer Island WA
 
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@Big Mike

I'm not sure why you consider the need to continue to defend yourself. You were sued, you vigorously defended your position and won the case in front of a judge in a court of law. That's all that matters.

I think digging out posts from other forums and responding to them here is beneath you and a waste of energy. It's time to move on and focus on more positive things. Go and build that nice house, sit on the beach and kickback.

There is nothing more to say apart from Congratulations!

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  #67 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
San Diego
 
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@Big Mike

I'm not sure why you consider the need to continue to defend yourself. You were sued, you vigorously defended your position and won the case in front of a judge in a court of law. That's all that matters.

I think digging out posts from other forums and responding to them here is beneath you and a waste of energy. It's time to move on and focus on more positive things. Go and build that nice house, sit on the beach and kickback.

There is nothing more to say apart from Congratulations!

Excellent post. Mike there will always be folks that don't like you (same for all of us). Please don't subject yourself to their negatively by seeking them out. If they succeed in provoking you, then they win. Don't let them!

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  #68 (permalink)
 Underexposed 
Calgary Alberta/Canada
 
 
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@Big Mike....first of all I want to congratulate you on your victory in the courts.

I was involved in a lawsuit myself where a disgruntled employer decided to sue me for breach of confidence and I naively got on my high horse and took the bit in my teeth(I was innocent but did not realize he did this for fun and being a bastard) I won the pretrial, he won the appeal and it died there never going to court (he knew in a real trial he would lose and I was tired of the process) but those battles cost me about $20,000, some self esteem and a good portion of what was left of my marriage. SO...I know the stresses and strains of the process and I also know how it messes with one's head.

Yours is without a doubt the best stock forum. I am very much a minority in this community but the quality of people using your website is such that I never felt that I did not belong here. You don't allow backbiting and intolerance .... and I appreciate that more than you can know. I have participated in probably 4-5 other forums over the last decade...some of which were (as it turned out) were simply pumpers themselves who tolerated only stocks that they were pumping (they gave out a news letter 2 hours into trading). I like the variety of this site though I have put my foot in it on occasion knowing little or nothing of futures and options trading . I like the ability of explaining my thoughts and ideas through my journal. Finally I like the international quality of the members.

As others have said before me.... IT IS OVER.... time to put it behind you and focus on investing and trying out interesting ways to make this already great site better.

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  #69 (permalink)
 PositiveDeviant 
United Kingdom
 
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Well done Mike, hope it wasn't too stressful. I refrained from posting about my experiences with Amp during the case, and there is little point since it's water under the bridge now, suffice to say the reports on your website on their customer service were highly accurate.

"The primary thing required to obtain what you want from life, is simply the will to pursue it, and the faith to believe it is possible." - Author Unknown

"The ability to maintain discipline and stick to the rules is the hallmark of the experienced successful trader" - Curtis Faith
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  #70 (permalink)
 chadschneid 
Omaha, NE/USA
 
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Congrats Mike. Litigation SUCKS. Bet it's a huge relief, I'm happy for you.

F those guys.

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  #71 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
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Having read the documents with no legal experience I concluded that their case had no merit. Good to see the court saw the same.

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  #72 (permalink)
 bd92154 
San Diego
 
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Big Mike View Post
It was brought to my attention today that this thread did not contain a link for users to make a donation to the legal defense fund.

I have added the link to post #1, but am posting it below as well:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=R94VQ7TQ63GXA

As of this posting, the funds raised by donation are not equal to the expense of the case. Thank you to those that have made a donation and to everyone for their support.

Mike

@Big Mike

Wow just read the transcript, better than reading an action novel, thanks.

If you can, what is the Total Court Cost divided by the number of Active users on Big Mike Trading?
Having this would give active users a better idea of what each "Active User's" fair share should be if they want to contribute or to contribute a second time as it appears there is still a money deficit regarding this court case.

Thanks in advance.

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  #73 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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bd92154 View Post
@Big Mike

Wow just read the transcript, better than reading an action novel, thanks.

If you can, what is the Total Court Cost divided by the number of Active users on Big Mike Trading?
Having this would give active users a better idea of what each "Active User's" fair share should be if they want to contribute or to contribute a second time as it appears there is still a money deficit regarding this court case.

Thanks in advance.

Somewhere around ~ 17k, I haven't got the final invoice yet for July's billable hours.

It's hard to give a "users" number. 50k members, 8k visit daily. 133 have thanked post #1 of this thread, 37 have posted in the thread. There are too many wild cards, best to let everyone come up with their own figure if they want to contribute to the legal fund.

Mike

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  #74 (permalink)
 keymoo 
Bedford, UK
 
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Big Mike View Post
Our fund raiser for the legal fund has not raised sufficient funds to cover the cost of defending against AMP.

As of this post, we need to raise another ~ $7,500 (approximate because I don't have a final invoice from my attorneys yet).
Mike

I don't know about U.S. law, but if they lost aren't they liable for all costs? Why do you have to pay costs for something where you are clearly not at fault? Doesn't make sense to me.

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  #75 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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keymoo View Post
I don't know about U.S. law, but if they lost aren't they liable for all costs? Why do you have to pay costs for something where you are clearly not at fault? Doesn't make sense to me.

In the US we do not have a default "loser pays" law. If we did, it would dramatically improve our legal system overnight...

My layman's understanding is that I would need to sue AMP to recover costs. It is something that hasn't been ruled out. I would like to see the "justice" in having them pay for the expenses they created, and would love to then be able to reimburse people who contributed to futures.io (formerly BMT)'s legal fund from the money recovered from AMP.

That said, it is not something I am presently pursuing. I reserve the right to change my mind of course.

Mike

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  #76 (permalink)
 kronie 
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djkiwi View Post
@Big Mike

I'm not sure why you consider the need to continue to defend yourself. You were sued, you vigorously defended your position and won the case in front of a judge in a court of law. That's all that matters.

I think digging out posts from other forums and responding to them here is beneath you and a waste of energy. It's time to move on and focus on more positive things. Go and build that nice house, sit on the beach and kickback.

There is nothing more to say apart from Congratulations!

things turned out the way they should have!

in legal terms, when someone is told their case lacks merit, is a far greater slap in the face, than just losing...
so much for their hollow or empty barrel, since that is the latest phrase being bandied about...

what is good to know, is what we have supported, will continue!

cheers!

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  #77 (permalink)
 jdrower 
Alameda, CA
 
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Congratulations. Let's hope this reduces future frivolous lawsuits of this (and any) kind.

The sun rises again!

JD
Cary, NC

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  #78 (permalink)
 Rachel 
San Diego
 
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Congrat's Big Mike!
You stood up for your right's and the right of free speech and won your day in court.

A strength of character!

Much success,

Rachel

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  #79 (permalink)
futurerama
Dayton + Ohio
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2014
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Congratulations futures.io (formerly BMT)!
Need to show who is the Big Dawg...
chipped in my support.

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  #80 (permalink)
kgbist
new york city
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2012
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I am surprised that the lawsuit went that far... What happened to free speech and on top of that evidence?

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  #81 (permalink)
 Righteous7 
Hong Kong
 
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Words can not describe how touched and happy I am when I heard that this lawsuit has been dismissed.

Freedom of speech is an essential part of modern civilization and human rights.

This judge has showed true integrity in making this decision.

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  #82 (permalink)
 harry737 
london, UK
 
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futures.io (formerly BMT) is a constant source of information, I am glad that this is still the case, and fairplay to you Mike standing up to this challenge.
Cementing the future development of trader information, for traders globally who use this site, its great news.

Harry

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  #83 (permalink)
 RTR1701 
London UK
 
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Even though I do not visit futures.io (formerly BMT) as much as I used to (not trading actively right now) I have to say I was delighted to read the post from Mike that the lawsuit had been thrown out.

It proves that David can beat Goliath and that reason can prevail. I will ever be grateful to Mike and his fellow members that gave me so much information and support in my early days trading and am happy that many more will continue to reap the benefits of such a great forum.

Well done Mike

All the best.

Never stop learning - never stop applying the knowledge.
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  #84 (permalink)
alexander76
rome italy
 
 
Posts: 2 since Apr 2014
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Excellent notice!

I think that every honest person will appreciate the honesty and transparency of this forum.

Tks futures.io (formerly BMT).


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  #85 (permalink)
 FMTrader 
Adelaide South Australia
 
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One has to be amazed how a broker who's business needs customers to thrive has progressively alienated so many potential customers!

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  #86 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
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FMTrader View Post
One has to be amazed how a broker who's business needs customers to thrive has progressively alienated so many potential customers!

Markets are not really rational....

(Or some of the participants in them are not, at least.)

Bob.

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  #87 (permalink)
 jdrower 
Alameda, CA
 
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While we're all glad of the outcome, lety's not forget how much it cost Big Mike. There's a link to making a donation at the first page of this thread. I'm making a donation NOW!
JD

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  #88 (permalink)
 OpalDragon 
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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CONGRATULATIONS MIKE!


I knew you would win -- for some reason part of me told me that you would win and you didn't have to worry about it!

Thank GOD the judge had INTEGRITY and knew that AMP was BSing. Can't believe AMP would kind of "stoop that low" really in a business that is all about the people - you know. It is not like they are in the Shipping business that is all about the boats and the containers. They are in the broker / people business and they kind of dis-respected a TON of people.

The CEO of AMP should publicly apologize to both Mike and ALL of futures.io (formerly BMT) for that dis-respect because they basically threatened with taking futures.io (formerly BMT) away from everyone here if there lawsuit would have been big enough. You know..

That is aggressive action and they were in the wrong -- so they have to admit that... come to terms with that .. learn from that and then publicly apologize to everyone here in futures.io (formerly BMT) for that.

Some will accept the apology ... some won't .. but everyone would respect the gesture (*as long as it is real of course) and it would be a step in the right direction. That is the correct way to run a business.


Also Mike -- I divided the 53,000 members by the 17,000 lawyer fee AND it just came out to 32 FREAKIN CENTS! Just 32 freakin cents if everyone gave just 32 cents right now... that would be done and over with. :O

You may have to start something like a small a kickstarter and everyone just gives 32 - 50 cents and in like 30 mins that would be over... Just talking out loud basically. You know.

Because the awesome programs already made by Fat Tails, Gomi, Cory, Resvat (*spelling) , vvhg -- are all worth ALLLLLLOOOOT More than some measly 32 cents.

You could also make it better - by maybe offering a small booklet/pdf telling something like your story as a trader and things you went thru as a trader with maybe the platforms that you use and why.. for new traders that are starting out -- they would definitely give 1 or 2 dollars.. maybe more.. You don't have to say your system just give some good tips for REALLY REALLY NEW traders. That would be worth at least a buck to the new traders for sure.

Do that Kickstarter style .. and I think this could be handled.

Cheers !

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  #89 (permalink)
 Jillzy 
Chicago, IL
 
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It's always heart warming to hear stories of the "small guy" winning against the "machine"...thank you for fighting the good fight and giving traders such an open and honest forum for sharing information! Thanks, Mike!!

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  #90 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 50,068 since Jun 2009
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@OpalDragon,

To date there have been approximately ~200 contributors to the legal fund.

I also want to point out that a small number of those ~200 contributors have donated a large amount compared to the average. I believe the biggest was around $500 (I would need to check, but pretty sure). Excel is telling me the average is about $50.

Mike

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  #91 (permalink)
 TakingStock12 
Chandler, Arizona
 
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Very happy for you and for this amazing community your vision has gathered and nurtured, a community I feel genuinely privileged to be part of!

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  #92 (permalink)
 srgtroy 
Legendary Market Wizard
Los Angeles, California Republic
 
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Congrats, Mike! You fought the good fight and you won...a rare combination!

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  #93 (permalink)
 Shamal 
Victoria BC/Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Investor RT, Ninjatrader,
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Congratulations Mike ! Thank you for standing by your principles, and doing so in futures.io (formerly BMT) style ! I cannot fathom how Amp thought to gain form getting in a petty scrap like this ? Now that Ninja has entered the brokerage business, I'm guessing it's easier than ever for Amp customers to head there, fuelled by a small mindedness few will want to put up with.
I wish you the best and thank you for being a class moderator, developer, interviewer and trader!

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  #94 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
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Awesome

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  #95 (permalink)
 fourtiwinks 
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
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Big Mike View Post
@OpalDragon,

To date there have been approximately ~200 contributors to the legal fund... Excel is telling me the average is about $50.

Mike

I'm shocked to know that there only about 200 contributors (~0.4% of total membership).

I had contributed and sincerely hope more futures.io (formerly BMT) members will contribute to the legal fund as well.

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  #96 (permalink)
 Wikmar 
Madrid - Spain
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 136 since May 2014
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First of all I join other colleagues giving my congratulations and above all, my support to the original motivation;
fight for the defense of freedom of speech, thoughts and experiences.

I would also like to dump a few ideas (european notation sometimes and perhaps not proper words, my english is not bilingual):



* As futures.io (formerly BMT)F is logical and honestly asking for financial aid and as futures.io (formerly BMT)F has direct incomes from the users ($100 elite members), it would be nice to recieve a bit more information from futures.io (formerly BMT)F.

We know some things but scattered and thanks to questions from colleagues. It would be nice a clear and complete information from futures.io (formerly BMT)F as a starting point; general costs, incomes, status, etc.

From my side it would be perfect if futures.io (formerly BMT)F were even a way of living from itself (from users, sponsors, etc). Perfect!, it will be beacuse its value that really really has.

But at this point, doing things well IMO, it would be desirable to share some information as starting point as I said. I think it would be very much better if every body knows more informed if we have to say "Mike, you have to take up the membership fees", or "Mike, for some circumstances, we are not talking about some cents or a few dollars for this case, it would be reasonable talk about $25 or 50", or maybe we conclude that in fact the goal is $1 and an extended campaign of awareness among users.

So, it's important to fix a good goal. And plus, attending this, among other things, there won't be this important and unnecessary imbalances (people donating $50 or $500).



* With the information gathered so far, as some colleagues get, it seems that with about 1 - 5 dollars from the regular users, we cover this issue, and perhaps a bit more. It is also important, always IMO, a frecuently feedback about the goal covering state, and also about the mean and the imbalances.



* Assuming as good the 1 - 5 dollars goal from the regular users, among those I meet not long ago, and rescuing the issue of why "if they lost aren't they liable for all costs?", and as Mike said: "My layman's understanding is that I would need to sue AMP to recover costs".

I have to say that I would donate $10 very very much more comfortable if we go ahead trying to recover the costs from the looser because it would be finishing the job and because we have to take this opportunity to also win equal future lawsuits.



* In principle information only, but as we analyze in the forum good places to live, I suggest to open a round to analyze how best existing legislation under which a forum like futures.io (formerly BMT)F would be put to work.


Regards to all.

Home people force
https://wikmar.wordpress.com/
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  #97 (permalink)
 HighDesertTrader 
Albuquerque, New Mexico/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader-Continuum(Mirus)
Trading: emini Currency and Index Futures
 
Posts: 104 since Jan 2011
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This is a victory for all of us and our ability to speak our minds. It is not clear to me whether or not this result stands as a precedent that could have important consequences beyond futures.io (formerly BMT). Maybe someone here with a legal background has better insight into this. Hopefully, it does.

Because of the importance of this victory, not only to futures.io (formerly BMT) as an entity, but to each of us, Big Mike should not have to pay out one red cent to legal fees. As @OpalDragon so eloquently points out, it doesn't take much from each member to accomplish this.

This "exercise" has emphasized the one important "flaw" in the futures.io (formerly BMT) Forum and that is, that you can only it the "Thanks" button once!!

Thanks Mike,
HDT

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  #98 (permalink)
 Cachevary 
Russia,Khabarovsk
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Trading: Gold
 
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HighDesertTrader View Post
This is a victory for all of us and our ability to speak our minds. It is not clear to me whether or not this result stands as a precedent that could have important consequences beyond futures.io (formerly BMT). Maybe someone here with a legal background has better insight into this. Hopefully, it does.

Because of the importance of this victory, not only to futures.io (formerly BMT) as an entity, but to each of us, Big Mike should not have to pay out one red cent to legal fees. As @OpalDragon so eloquently points out, it doesn't take much from each member to accomplish this.

This "exercise" has emphasized the one important "flaw" in the futures.io (formerly BMT) Forum and that is, that you can only it the "Thanks" button once!!

Thanks Mike,
HDT

There is another button - 'Pay'.You can hit it nonstop!

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  #99 (permalink)
 dnof 
san francisco, ca
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 45 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 42 given, 27 received


fourtiwinks View Post
I'm shocked to know that there only about 200 contributors (~0.4% of total membership).

I had contributed and sincerely hope more futures.io (formerly BMT) members will contribute to the legal fund as well.

@fourtiwinks - I agree with you. Also donated some time ago - a small donation by each is not much for the hours of learning and community provided from here.

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  #100 (permalink)
TGregg
Charlotte NC
 
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 3 given, 7 received

Gratz! It's kinda funny if you think about it. IMO, the plaintiffs did far more damage to their rep by engaging in this lawsuit than the posts by the defendant and the contractor could possibly have done. People get all caught up in hate and anger, they lose their minds and they act irrational.

You'd think trading would be an industry that really clamped down on the whole irrational anger/go-nuts stuff. Folks engaging in that sort of thing would fail one way or another. But apparently not, strange. Maybe they compartmentalize their lunacy.

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