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Preliminary discussion - please participate - Certified Trustworthy Vendor program
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Preliminary discussion - please participate - Certified Trustworthy Vendor program

  #31 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Tasker_182 View Post
Mike,

What you are attempting is daunting to be sure but if you are able to create a comprehensive vendor standard, that major and multiple vendors buy into, in the long run certainly one advantage to the vendors would be the ability to also advertise their "certified vendor status on futures.io (formerly BMT)".

Any concerns about that BM?

No concern, I want vendors to be happy to be part of the program, and they should be proud of it because the overwhelming majority of vendors will not be accepted into the program. This is unfortunately the nature of our business, as I mentioned in the first post.

Moreover, I hope that the program will get traction and will encourage all vendors to improve their code of conduct and business practices. futures.io (formerly BMT) is a very large community, so as the program gains traction I hope futures.io (formerly BMT) members start asking/demanding a vendor be part of the program, or at the very least questioning why a vendor is not part of the program. I laid out the requirements to be part of the program in post 1, so it should be clear to a member and they can compare what a vendor says to what the requirements are.

In this way it is similar to BBB or checking reviews on Yelp before giving them your business. You can obviously do business with a company that is not a BBB member and has no reviews on Yelp, but you would probably feel better if they were a member with a clean record and had positive reviews.

In addition, I know that there are always some people that are "negative" about me, my site, the community as a whole, and of course when you bring vendors into the equation then that negativity will expand even further. I'm accustomed to dealing with those people already, and luckily (for me and everyone) they are the minority. The internet often describes these types of people as "trolls". My desire is not to please everyone, as that is not possible. The goal is to instead provide a much needed service in the industry, and to elevate the standards of all trading vendors -- for the benefit of the end user.

A lot of people have questioned the amount of time this will take. It is a considerable amount of time, and in fact has already been a considerable amount of time just getting to this point. I have a small army of people working on it already. The fee for being a member will be similar to the fee to become a member of the BBB. This fee will allow me to hire help, legal, programmers, etc as needed to maintain and grow the program.

Please keep the feedback coming.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
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4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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  #32 (permalink)
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milwaukee,wi, usa
 
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Having been in business for myself for about a year and a half now, I can say that the best advertising is referral and "word of mouth." When it comes to trading, if I'm happy with a vendor/product and my friends and family have no interest in trading, how can I return the favor to the business that I was happy to use?
A community such as this would be a great place to share those recommendations and referrals.

ps. I am a member of the bbb and if that is the ultimate goal of this project to have an avenue for vendors to get "accredited" I'm all for it. If they are legit, they put alot of time and effort into what they are providing and I'm sure a place to promote their business amongst a very dialed in set of consumers would go over well as compared to getting lost in search on the web or losing their shirt with pay per clicks on search engines.

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  #33 (permalink)
Elite Member
boston, ma / usa
 
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Eliminate vendors all together


Allow the elite to revenue the site thru a monthly or annual program, as this site be considered a learning center. Eliminate the seperation of church and state, focus on what Big Mike's forum is, a unique, clean traders learning center. and let her grow and profit on simplicity of members supporting members. The wealth of information here is well worth $20 a month. Allow the vendors to fend for themselves, we as traders will find them, as a vendor referral thru a click bank system and disclaimers attatched holding yourself harmless under an arbitory agreement in your state of residence, as reading above, 90% are selling the holy grail, you can still support the 10 percenters as an outside source, not to intermingle business with pleasure sort a say. Think "Big Mike Trading University" , maybe register corporate in nevada or dc. Start employing a monthly membership with 30 day trail asap., simple, done. there is more intelligence in this site than all vendors put together. Congrats on the Member supported webinars, it all you need. all in my opinion. Let me know how i can help

Scott B

Not a vendor, just a trader. I do not sell anything. Current studies involve EasyLanguage, Money Management and Technical Analysis. Do Enjoy: Fibs, S / R's , Eliotts, Cycles, Trends , Skews. Not Enjoy: fundamentals, Main St Media . It's all about keeping your emotions out of trading and work a system. Appreciate all insight as will be returned. Scotty B.
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  #34 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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@bullsandthebears, there are over 10,000 posts in the vendor review section of futures.io (formerly BMT) right now, plus of course countless more posts talking about similar topics outside of that section.

Having read those posts, I can very clearly see a problem with the industry. And since futures.io (formerly BMT) is at the forefront in the trading community (one of the most active trading forums in the world) I think it is a good place to help traders. That help extends to all things trading.

In this case, I am wanting to use my expertise in this area, my expertise as a trader, my expertise as a technology guy and put a program together that will benefit traders.

Obviously there are some that do not need or even want the new system. That is not surprising. It is just like the traders who don't want to read some of the posts from "newbies". In other words, traders will find and focus on the material that interests them.

Over 1,000 new traders sign up to futures.io (formerly BMT) monthly. Many of these traders are new to trading. Many are veteran traders. We aim to help both in different ways.

For example, one trader is perhaps not at all interested in platforms, brokers, trading rooms, coaching programs or etc because he's already profitable and doesn't even want to look at anything else because he is happy with what he has. But as you know, the majority of traders lose money, so the majority of them are constantly looking for "something" to help them improve.

All I am trying to do is make that decision a little bit easier, a little bit more informed, a little bit safer. As I mentioned in post 1, I also want to provide a way for the vendors that are in the program -- those that pass the requirements of free trials/money back guarantees, no unrealistic promises on their website, excellent reputation in the industry, good business practices and follow our code of conduct -- to have more freedom than they have today on futures.io (formerly BMT). After all, these vendors can be considered "the best of the best" in the industry and what they have to say, teach, comment on or etc is likely useful to most of the traders on the forum.

As I mentioned in post 1, Certified Trustworthy vendors will still be regulated to just their primary vendor thread(s) for promoting any of their products or services.

In addition, if you wish to totally filter out all things vendor, you have choices:

- As an Elite Member, you can disable ads on the site - although I ask you not to so you support the site.
- Any member can ignore any other member by clicking their username and choose "Ignore".
- Any member can filter a subforum from view in Search Results including the 'New Post' results by clicking the button that says "Filter subforums listed" while in that view. You could filter out the Vendor subforum for instance.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #35 (permalink)
Jedi Master
SF Bay Area
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra
Broker/Data: Multiple
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
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Posts: 564 since Nov 2011
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Vendor Solution


Big Mike View Post
No concern, I want vendors to be happy to be part of the program, and they should be proud of it because the overwhelming majority of vendors will not be accepted into the program. This is unfortunately the nature of our business, as I mentioned in the first post.

Moreover, I hope that the program will get traction and will encourage all vendors to improve their code of conduct and business practices. futures.io (formerly BMT) is a very large community, so as the program gains traction I hope futures.io (formerly BMT) members start asking/demanding a vendor be part of the program, or at the very least questioning why a vendor is not part of the program. I laid out the requirements to be part of the program in post 1, so it should be clear to a member and they can compare what a vendor says to what the requirements are.

In this way it is similar to BBB or checking reviews on Yelp before giving them your business. You can obviously do business with a company that is not a BBB member and has no reviews on Yelp, but you would probably feel better if they were a member with a clean record and had positive reviews.

In addition, I know that there are always some people that are "negative" about me, my site, the community as a whole, and of course when you bring vendors into the equation then that negativity will expand even further. I'm accustomed to dealing with those people already, and luckily (for me and everyone) they are the minority. The internet often describes these types of people as "trolls". My desire is not to please everyone, as that is not possible. The goal is to instead provide a much needed service in the industry, and to elevate the standards of all trading vendors -- for the benefit of the end user.

A lot of people have questioned the amount of time this will take. It is a considerable amount of time, and in fact has already been a considerable amount of time just getting to this point. I have a small army of people working on it already. The fee for being a member will be similar to the fee to become a member of the BBB. This fee will allow me to hire help, legal, programmers, etc as needed to maintain and grow the program.

Please keep the feedback coming.

Mike

Really easy BM,

Make any vendor claims verify to a high transparent standard or they can't be a vendor on the site. Product vendors is probably not the concern since this site has plenty of products for free, but teaching vendors should verify OBJECTIVELY with updated monthly statements AND live analysis. If they can do that and remain in the vendor status, they should wear the BM vendor status with pride as that should eliminate 95%...lol Its a badge of honor to be a BM vendor if that's the criteria.. Often with other sites, vendors post unverified claims and all their employees, best friends, parents, aunts and uncles, and etc back them w/o any verification..lol and then ego/verbal wars erupt and nobody knows what to believe.. Too much of that in this business.. Trading vendors is not going away and don't have to be a bad thing if people can know where to go for a high quality vendor..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0

Jedi


Last edited by Jedi; February 14th, 2013 at 12:34 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)
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I consider myself lucky & to have survived my learnings in the markets & to have found the right stuff & education. I think it is a very noble idea..not many think this way. Hoping this will help the starting trader find his/her way thru the maze and carve a niche. Ofcourse no amount of education can be substituted by screen time & actual trades/market knowledge/patience/humility,etc etc. This should help both educator & student to be serious & respectful of each others time/value/integrity/focus,etc. It could be a place where a student of the markets can find info and vendors easily. Guess this may pan out to be a win win situation for both the student of the markets and educator.

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  #37 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
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Jedi View Post
Really easy BM,

OBJECTIVELY with updated monthly statements AND live analysis.

Jedi

It's Illegal for a vendor to claim real results . If they do, and they are not registered, they still MUST put hypothetical disclaimers on it which does not help because now you just don't know if it is real or not.

Real time results are considered promotional material, and you need to be registered in some capacity to show such results. You must have a way to be audited if you claim results.

Again, my suggestion is not to focus on the P&L rather the method at hand.
If you had a positive P&L or negative, it's meaningless.
Traders come from different backgrounds, and everyone applies things differently.
Therefore, if a debate occurred between a satisfied customer and a dissatisfied, it should revolve around practicality. Let the best man win, and let the spectators judge whether such application of methodology is for them or not. This is a healthier and cleaner debate.

in lay man terms, were you able to use it in your trading or now the 18 CD package used a "balancer" for your table?

I saw many beginners impressed with BS, because vendors have figured out that
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
Which includes book writing, big seminars, etc and all of a sudden there is an acceptance that the trader is good.
But, I have been doing this for far too long to see that this is just a show.

Therefore, if I was a judge of "American Trading Vendor" I would judge based on Practical Application of Method. Sometimes I come across vendors with small sites, very unknown, yet provide more practical value than big industry names.

I am vendor neutral, but if someone just taught you that you have a use a method instead of intuition and you bought into it, you are a step ahead of many.

M

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #38 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
It's Illegal for a vendor to claim real results . If they do, and they are not registered, they still MUST put hypothetical disclaimers on it which does not help because now you just don't know if it is real or not.

Real time results are considered promotional material, and you need to be registered in some capacity to show such results. You must have a way to be audited if you claim results.

Again, my suggestion is not to focus on the P&L rather the method at hand.
If you had a positive P&L or negative, it's meaningless.
Traders come from different backgrounds, and everyone applies things differently.
Therefore, if a debate occurred between a satisfied customer and a dissatisfied, it should revolve around practicality. Let the best man win, and let the spectators judge whether such application of methodology is for them or not. This is a healthier and cleaner debate.

in lay man terms, were you able to use it in your trading or now it's 18 CD package used a "balancer" for your table?

I saw many beginners impressed with BS, because vendors have figured out that
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
Which includes book writing, big seminars, etc and all of a sudden there is an acceptance that the trader is good.
But, I have been doing this for far too long to see that this is just a show.

Therefore, if I was a judge of "American Trading Vendor" I would judge based on Practical Application of Method. Sometimes I come across vendors with small sites, very unknown, yet provide more practical value than big industry names.

I am vendor neutral, but if someone just taught you that you have a use a method instead of intuition and you bought into it, you are a step ahead of many.

M

Then we're really back to square one because the value is not in the method itself but in the application of the method. Plenty of methods traders can use but most trader cant put it together well enough to apply it effectively AND THERE IS GOOD PROBABILITY THAT THE INSTRUCTOR CANT EITHER, so how is "practical" measured?. the value really comes from knowing how to apply it real time.. That's why vendors should be paid the big bucks if they offer that.. However, I hear about so many newbies that pay big bucks for nothing but a "practical method" subjectively assessed with no transparency.. That's how vendors got the bad rep in the 1'st place.. This is a solution if this site wants to invite vendors and keep a distance from the negative aspects of it.

No need to claim anything, simply show results and real time analysis as a criteria to have the BM vendor badge. If the monthly statements are negative, let it be transparent to the paying students and would be paying students.. That should help newer traders to make good decisions. That's currently not available in any trading forums anywhere. If they need to register, then register.. why wouldn't they? It sounds more like an excuse really..


Last edited by Jedi; February 14th, 2013 at 02:28 AM.
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  #39 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,214 received

I am working on a separate program (nothing to do with vendors, will be available to all futures.io (formerly BMT) members including vendors) for members to provide some legitimacy or "prove" their trading prowess. Work in progress, details when available.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
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  #40 (permalink)
Jedi Master
SF Bay Area
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra
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Posts: 564 since Nov 2011
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Big Mike View Post
I am working on a separate program (nothing to do with vendors, will be available to all futures.io (formerly BMT) members including vendors) for members to provide some legitimacy or "prove" their trading prowess. Work in progress, details when available.

Mike

BM,

I think that might be a fun idea but I suspect typically profitable traders have very little motivation to prove themselves except for fun and perhaps recognition.. Trading can be very similar to a sport, and athletes often enjoy competition though good traders often have nothing to prove..

But vendors really should provide some evidence or transparency as they have everything to prove, or people should assume the obvious which is more than 50% of the vendors "probably" can't trade, or they'd be dying to post their statements.. I think its safe to assume that statement is "probably" more true than not..

Jedi


Last edited by Jedi; February 14th, 2013 at 02:17 AM.
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