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Rules for calling trade ideas in the chatbox


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Rules for calling trade ideas in the chatbox

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  #1 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I am imposing a new rule for the chatbox.

If you are going to call out a trade idea in the chatbox, you must include your entry price, stop price, and target price.

You need to also write the word "cash" if this is a cash trade. If it is a sim trade write "sim".

I am making these changes because too often newer traders try and follow someone else who appears to be successfully calling trade ideas without realizing that person is not trading cash, or that person is "fudging" his numbers. Trying to copy someone else is bad enough without being mislead on top of that.

If you post a trade idea without this information, I will delete it and will ask you to stop posting trades in the chatbox.

Mike

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  #2 (permalink)
 cory 
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and which contract and specify which month during rollover time.
ps. also number of cars and is it original or add on or pare out.

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  #3 (permalink)
 redratsal 
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I understand the meaning of this rule but it makes things more complicated. I see the Chatbox as a comunication tool, people should not be influenced and if they wrongly do, that is one of many lessons to be learned about trading. I think the real problem is with old and wizard members, their calls might influence somebody. I wish the age or the board status could be linked to the trading performance but in my case it isn't so. To be fair the rule should be extended to threads and posts, which would make things even more complicated. Who wants to remember all this information. I think a reminder on the bottom of the chatbox should be enough, beeing responsible is part of risk management.

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 Lornz 
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redratsal View Post
I understand the meaning of this rule but it makes things more complicated. I see the Chatbox as a comunication tool, people should not be influenced and if they wrongly do, that is one of many lessons to be learned about trading. I think the real problem is with old and wizard members, their calls might influence somebody. I wish the age or the board status could be linked to the trading performance but in my case it isn't so. To be fair the rule should be extended to threads and posts, which would make things even more complicated. Who wants to remember all this information. I think a reminder on the bottom of the chatbox should be enough, beeing responsible is part of risk management.

I am long the front month of this post without a stop loss and an unlimited profit target!

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  #5 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I am not trying to make things more difficult, but the bottom line is that a lot of traders are very trusting when it comes to other members and what they say.

I could care less if someone is on cash or sim personally. But then again, I don't get influenced by the trades people call in the chatbox. A lot of members do. Just look at the popularity of the Vendor Reviews section and look at how many members are going from room to room looking for signal calling services.

So you need to understand how many people are being influenced. And it isn't fair for them to be influenced without having more facts, such as a stop and a target for each trade.

I realize some guys may not feel like posting trades any more with the new stop and target requirement. But I would rather have no trades called than misleading trades called.

Mike

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 vegasfoster 
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I think its good and I don't think its that complicated really. I'm sorry, but too many ppl making after the fact calls and then mysteriously nothing to show for it.

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 wldman 
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received and necessary requirement imo if there is to be any integrity at all to trades called on the box. Of course anyone can type out a phony bologna trade and say it is 100 lot. BUT the timing will now and should now be called to task. Kudos on the idea and the request for this necessary change.

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 monpere 
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redratsal View Post
I understand the meaning of this rule but it makes things more complicated. I see the Chatbox as a comunication tool, people should not be influenced and if they wrongly do, that is one of many lessons to be learned about trading. I think the real problem is with old and wizard members, their calls might influence somebody. I wish the age or the board status could be linked to the trading performance but in my case it isn't so. To be fair the rule should be extended to threads and posts, which would make things even more complicated. Who wants to remember all this information. I think a reminder on the bottom of the chatbox should be enough, beeing responsible is part of risk management.

I've never used this feature on the site, but I agree that any chat function of this nature where people can be influenced by live calls, should have the standard trading risk warning, unless the people making the calls are CTA's.

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 cory 
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monpere View Post
I've never used this feature on the site, but I agree that any chat function of this nature where people can be influenced by live calls, should have the standard trading risk warning, unless the people making the calls are CTA's.

if they are CTAs they are regulated by the National Futures Association (NFA) then they will have to have you to read thru disclaimer first before they can even say anything.

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 Luger 
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I think it is a great idea simply because it gives some accountability to all parties, the poster as well as the follower.

It helps out the sim guys too, because effectively they are putting their reputation where their mouth is, and sometimes that is as good as money to drive an emotional response. It actually becomes a real trade when everyone and their brother knows...lol. Then they can gripe about getting their calls faded by other people too

There is still no reason that people can't talk about where they think things are going, people will just know that there is not money behind those comments. Quality over quantity.

If Mike wants to give some credence to those that don't like the idea, then make Chat 2-4 available to make whatever crazy calls people want. That way those interested in documented calls can stay in Chat 1, while the others can play around.

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 kronie 
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Big Mike View Post
I am imposing a new rule for the chatbox.

If you are going to call a trade in the chatbox, you must include your entry price, stop price, and target price.

You need to also write the word "cash" if this is a cash trade. If it is a sim trade write "sim".

I am making these changes because too often newer traders try and follow someone else who appears to be successfully calling trades without realizing that person is not trading cash, or that person is "fudging" his numbers. Trying to copy someone else is bad enough without being mislead on top of that.

If you post a trade without this information, I will delete it and will ask you to stop posting trades in the chatbox.

Mike

It's important to realize the legal ramifications of taking that responsibility even with these rules imposed. Simply put, if this were equities, which falls under the SEC's jurisdiction, then an incompetent securities attorney could easily entangle such a poster with litigation for any and all losses incurred by how ever many parties, in what would almost inevitably become a class action lawsuit, with merit.

Because most of us on these threads talk, trade and review commodities trades, whether full sized contracts, electronic miniture contracts or other futures vehicles, these fall under the auspices of the FTA and CFTC. They impose a similar requirement of being Registered, such as being an RIA (Investment Advisor). Normally people subject themselves to this certification process for profit, which almost contradicts the notion of going through all that trouble for free and still having exposure and legal potential liability.

We live in a litigious society. One need be prepared, fore warned or advised that there are concerns with that seemingly innocent act of posting (for whatever reasons; bragging rights, for profit, for notariety, whatever) trades or calling out trades.

One need be forewarned.

Good trading to you all!

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 wldman 
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and Mike. I do not disagree with the trade posting requirement, not even a little. My perspective or take was that this was an integrity issue, not a legal one. I am wondering, if there is a legal concern, would a universal disclaimer offer any protection?

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 futuretrader 
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wldman View Post
Of course anyone can type out a phony bologna trade and say it is 100 lot. .

Yes, but imagine having to take delivery of all that bologna.

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 monpere 
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futuretrader View Post
Yes, but imagine having to take delivery of all that bologna.

What's the futures symbol for bologna?... BS?

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 wldman 
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chances are that even if the trade was actually entered as described, which in and of itself is a low probability, there is a near certainty that it would be sim bologna, right? So easy enough, store that in the sim fridge or runa bologna special in the network of sim restaurants worldwide.

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 wldman 
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monpere View Post
What's the symbol for bologna? ...BS

you may be onto something. ...and bs could be the mini?

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It's important to realize the legal ramifications of taking that responsibility even with these rules imposed. Simply put, if this were equities, which falls under the SEC's jurisdiction, then an incompetent securities attorney could easily entangle such a poster with litigation for any and all losses incurred by how ever many parties, in what would almost inevitably become a class action lawsuit, with merit.

Because most of us on these threads talk, trade and review commodities trades, whether full sized contracts, electronic miniture contracts or other futures vehicles, these fall under the auspices of the FTA and CFTC. They impose a similar requirement of being Registered, such as being an RIA (Investment Advisor). Normally people subject themselves to this certification process for profit, which almost contradicts the notion of going through all that trouble for free and still having exposure and legal potential liability.

We live in a litigious society. One need be prepared, fore warned or advised that there are concerns with that seemingly innocent act of posting (for whatever reasons; bragging rights, for profit, for notariety, whatever) trades or calling out trades.

One need be forewarned.

Good trading to you all!

if there is no compensation based upon assets under management, then trade calls are covered under free speech. You would not have to be an RIA.

I am speaking of RIA's and compensation only. Also, IANAL.

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 aquarian1 
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It seems to me that Kronie is overstating things somewhat.

Is it not that when enters into a financial relationship that the obligation for fiduiary duty and therefore potential for litigation exists?

If a person is reading the newspaper in a coffee shop a stranger notices him reading an article on Facebook and says "what a dog of an IPO!" and he replies "yes I bought someand I'm down." - by disclosing his trade he is liable for ligitation? I don't think so. no contractual relationship exists. (offer acceptance and consideration are all not present).

Certainly a futures broker advertising for business, or someone selling a trading system, or an educator selling a class must have the disclaimer "hypothetical results.... blah, blah, blah, The opportunnity for loss exits..... etc.

However, is every person who has posted his journal open to litigation?
Seems a stretch to me.

@cory you seem to be on the ball. Is this a tempest in a teapot?

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 GaryD 
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My defense will be to plead insanity.


Does anyone know if chat text is available for chats before where the scroll bar takes it?

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  #20 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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GaryD View Post
My defense will be to plead insanity.


Does anyone know if chat text is available for chats before where the scroll bar takes it?

Click Archives for history.

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 GaryD 
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Perfect. Downloaded as csv. I am going to reconstruct tonight on the chart. Thanks Mike, that is a great feature.

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 kronie 
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monpere View Post
What's the futures symbol for bologna?... BS?


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  #23 (permalink)
 kronie 
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aquarian1 View Post
It seems to me that Kronie is overstating things somewhat.

Is it not that when enters into a financial relationship that the obligation for fiduiary duty and therefore potential for litigation exists?

If a person is reading the newspaper in a coffee shop a stranger notices him reading an article on Facebook and says "what a dog of an IPO!" and he replies "yes I bought someand I'm down." - by disclosing his trade he is liable for ligitation? I don't think so. no contractual relationship exists. (offer acceptance and consideration are all not present).

Certainly a futures broker advertising for business, or someone selling a trading system, or an educator selling a class must have the disclaimer "hypothetical results.... blah, blah, blah, The opportunnity for loss exits..... etc.

However, is every person who has posted his journal open to litigation?
Seems a stretch to me.

@cory you seem to be on the ball. Is this a tempest in a teapot?


@Lornz, @traderwerks, @aquarian1


equities trading is vastly different regulatory wise, than futures (emini(s) as a sub-category within)

GaryD had a very good day in the chatbox today, and it sure was fun watching and participating and riding along with him, as he sweat through that trade...

as far a legal technicalities in that comment I made, it takes just 20 minutes listening to a securities lawyer discuss cases and current accepted practices and charges brought against licensed persons (particularly in the equities side of the equation) to know the validity of my post; irrespective of re-numeration or not.


after all there's a reason there weren't futures.io (formerly BMT) threads like these when trading prop shop and equities were rampant... with futures, there are other concerns and they're not the same as equities (guess I'm repeating myself).

as regards futures, have an involved chat with your broker regarding where the regulatory emphasis comes into play with futures. It might prove enlightening. Or if you have occasion to become licensed, perhaps then, with your teachers...

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 GaryD 
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kronie View Post

GaryD had a very good day in the chatbox today, and it sure was fun watching and participating and riding along with him, as he sweat through that trade...

I have read in the past about trades being called in the "chatbox", but it just wasn't my thing. I would sometimes call trades in a thread, and had someone ask me why I was not doing it in the chatbox, and I said because then I had to listen to everyone else.

But today I saw it as something it was designed for; to call out a trade that I thought had a very high probability, very good RR for a "scalp" , like 3:1 or more, and if any new traders are watching it, to explain what is going through my mind. The more important things than whether it was a winning trade or a losing trade;

I called out the trade potential an hour or more before it occurred, at that time price was relatively far from my preferred entry. But, I knew it would probably retest. But, since I was counting on coming out of major support, I was not going to short it.

I showed to have patience and wait for the right entry. My sarcastic "shhhh" was very honest. It was in the zone, and now all senses should be firing, but most important, listening.

I eased into the trade, adding into a better position, and then adding into a more secure base. Completely opposite ends of the entry process. I layered out similarly, taking off, or "banking, risk.

I had very logical targets. Target #2 was too popular going into the close (DVPOC) and price could barely get past it, so I closed out. It happens. There are no hard rules for 10 tick stop 20 tick profit, it does not work that way, in my opinion. You take a trade because you have a good probability of understanding the market in that moment, and you play the RR it suggests.

It was to maybe help a new trader watch the process through a more advanced trader's mind. Sometimes just knowing a few details can shed light on something in a trader's head, cause a new direction of thought.

I gained nothing from posting it, I promised nothing from it. It is freedom of speech, and this is a site by traders for traders. It takes away from my focus to post things like that, but why else are we here?

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 ECHOTRADER 
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does any body know about an indicator from Trade the plan name TTP_AutoFibRetracement if you know where I can donwload for free I have some trade ideas but I need the indicator.

thanks

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