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Elite only for ALL downloads?


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Elite only for ALL downloads?

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  #501 (permalink)
 PK 1 
Kassel / Germany
 
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making all downloads 'elite' - exclusive can be worth a try - You gave some reasons why this is the way to go for Your forum. In the end it's all up to You. I'm new to this forum, haven't had much time to be here since registering, my schedule is quite busy at the moment ... but: starting as a non-elite member with limited access there should still be a reason to stay instead of leaving ... it's a matter of balance to keep the Non-Elite-User and still having things to catch up user for Elite-Subscription. One user wrote that subcribing is not in the first place due to the huge amount of scam in other forums. I entirely agree. Thatswhy many user (in my opinion) will come and join without subscribing to Elite. If the restrictions keep these user from just 'being' in the forum they'll leave before even thinking about the Elite-Section ... just a matter of balance

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  #502 (permalink)
 scartree 
Queensland Australia
 
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Mike
I spent many hours on this forum before I became an elite member. I learnt a great deal and was grateful for the access without having to pay for it. I acknowledged that there was certain content available only to those who were willing and able to pay for it but I was still able to access many things which helped me get started. This is a great forum with many very bright people who contribute. I never cease to appreciate the generosity of those folk who so freely give of their time and expertise. I believe that there are still basic elements currently available to non-elite members for free could remain that way. This site is a source of useful information and a great help to people trying to learn the art of trading. There is a feeling of good will amongst the members and it would be a pity if introducing full restricted access reduced the number of new members who will one day join the elite membership and contribute for the benefit of us all.

I am sure that most elite members had access to the site for some time before they became elite members. They had the opportunity to evaluate the quality of information which would become available to them as elite members. I think that it would be in the interest of the forum to maintain an element of free access to encourage people to participate and eventually become elite members. I fully support restricting that access so that the things of real value are only available to those who appreciate the value and are prepared to pay the small premium to become elite members in order to have access to it. I am not sure who decides what should be restricted - is it admin or the contributor?

You have to make the decision on how you administer the site. I am sure that decision will be made in the best interest of the forum and its members and I am sure we will all support whatever you eventually decide to do.

Karl

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  #503 (permalink)
 markw 
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The indicators on futures.io (formerly BMT) are great . I have not put up any indicators because I have no
programing skills. The guys who built the indicators should have the final word'



Mark

 
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  #504 (permalink)
 Bob6307 
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Mike;

This is such a shame, but making the downloads available to elite members only seems to be an appropriate response.
I found the site and downloads invaluable as a learning tool prior to becoming an elite member, but i don't doubt people are taking advantage of the free downloads in an inappropritae way.
Perhaps charging a fee for general use of the system without elite membership is a way to go.
My hats off to the people developing indicators and for sharing these with fellow traders, and hats off to you for providing such a valuable forum.

Bob6307

 
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  #505 (permalink)
 dorschden 
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Bermudan Option View Post
How is this not charging for freeware?

...For starters, they might not have even given it to futures.io (formerly BMT) exclusively so if it gets reposted then perhaps that was their intentions, and furthermore I am 99% positive that they didn't post it so that futures.io (formerly BMT) could effectively make money off of their work by tacking it onto the elite members section...

The reason this forum is so great is because it is by traders and for traders and creates an environment that makes traders want to give back to the community. However, the community is not traders that post frequently on futures.io (formerly BMT) or that pay $50 on futures.io (formerly BMT). It is people who like to trade and talk about trading.

As the author of the PriceActionSwing indicator I'm not happy with the decision to make all indicators elite only. Imo that this decision will probably not archive the initially goal to protect the work. Right now there are already a few people who are elite members and sharing/selling the stuff from here elsewhere.

@Big Mike It is your site and you have to do what you think is best for it and you wouldn't have this discussion if you haven't done such a good job with it. And I know it's not about that you get some money from the site. But right now I'm more in the mood to remove my indicator because if I wanted that my indicator is only accessible after paying some money I wouldn't had make it public or I would have shared/sold it by my own.

The big advantage of this forum in the beginning days was that people give away a lot of their valuable stuff here for free. And their revenue was contact to other trading buddies and ideas to improve their own trading. Imo some of this part will be gone with the new system and that's because 1% of the people share/sell the stuff from here elsewhere.

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  #506 (permalink)
 Dillons Grandpa 
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I am a beginner and paid the $50 (was shocked that it was so low for a lifetime license) primarily to learn from the webinars. Though having no prior experience in forums of any sort, I have been amazed at the willingness of such talented programmers and so many others to share indies, knowledge, and time with all of us in the community. I thank each of you. I will never be able to contribute any code and probably not much advice on anything so I thank those who do.

You will always have thieves taking the work of others and profitting from it. I don't see how you can police that. Raising the fee would not deter them. Let the developers charge for their work if you choose...that's their decision....but what I sense are a group of unselfish people who are not motivated by selling indies but by helping others. Like some earlier post said, an indie doesn't make one a trader any more than having a circular saw makes one a carpenter.

BM, I trust you will do the best thing for the community as it is your site. Thank you for it.

Bruce

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  #507 (permalink)
 sharky 
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man i really got hammered hard by people at bmt a year ago when i only considered selling one of my indicators.well as for me i wont be posting anything here anymore.i dont like someone else making money off my back even if it is mike...sharky

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  #508 (permalink)
 Laurus12 
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@Dorchden.

Maybe the best solution would be to give people the choice to share it with everyone or just Elite when they share something. Like some check box to check or not check before it is published.

Something similar might also be a good solution when starting a new thread with some new stuff. For example one could have the choice to share it with new people, people with more than 20 posts, people with more than 50 posts, or people with more than 100 posts. I mean no matter if it is in the Elite section or not. In this way one have the opportunity to target people according to how active they have been in the forum.


Laurus

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  #509 (permalink)
 VinceVirgil 
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Free advise is worth every penny. Who dosnt pay for something of value?

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  #510 (permalink)
 djpl8 
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Mike, I appreciate this site and all of the work that you and others have done to help others. I was a lurker and down loader of indicators for a while before I became an elite member. I only paid for the elite membership because I felt like I had to give something back. I work full time and do not intend to leave a state job, plus I can't program, hence the low thank you and post count from me. I can only begin to imagine what you go through keeping this site up and dealing with all kinds of issues, from programming to attitudes and then watch other people make money off of you while you make practically zilch. If you have to change with the times, I understand and respect your decision.

 
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  #511 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
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dorschden View Post
As the author of the PriceActionSwing indicator I'm not happy with the decision to make all indicators elite only. Imo that this decision will probably not archive the initially goal to protect the work. Right now there are already a few people who are elite members and sharing/selling the stuff from here elsewhere.

@Big Mike It is your site and you have to do what you think is best for it and you wouldn't have this discussion if you haven't done such a good job with it. And I know it's not about that you get some money from the site. But right now I'm more in the mood to remove my indicator because if I wanted that my indicator is only accessible after paying some money I wouldn't had make it public or I would have shared/sold it by my own.

The big advantage of this forum in the beginning days was that people give away a lot of their valuable stuff here for free. And their revenue was contact to other trading buddies and ideas to improve their own trading. Imo some of this part will be gone with the new system and that's because 1% of the people share/sell the stuff from here elsewhere.

yep, I was afraid this would happen.

imho the #1 reason why futures.io (formerly BMT) is such a great place, is because of certain programmers that participate. people like @dorschden. and it would be a big shame to lose him.

maybe reconsider or trying to find a compromise.

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  #512 (permalink)
 pengi 
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I just found this thread after trying to download a "free download" from the downloads section, and being puzzled why it wouldn't let me download. Now I see why...

I was planning to become an elite member someday, but I don't see why the people who posted files as free downloads can't have their wish. If they wanted them to be restricted, they would have put them in the elite downloads section.

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  #513 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I have sent a PM to @dorschden with a possible solution.

Mike

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  #514 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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pengi View Post
I was planning to become an elite member someday, but I don't see why the people who posted files as free downloads can't have their wish.

Read post 474



Anyway, I have a possible idea to remedy the issue when someone explicitly wants to put a file in a Free section. Give me some time.

Mike

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  #515 (permalink)
 tradersheldon 
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I am in favor of making downloads Elite Only. After all it is only a few bucks. I would like to see the download area sorted by platform or programming language.

 
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  #516 (permalink)
 Bermudan Option 
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I have reread the initial post a few times now. The two main issues appear to be: piracy and an increase in the amount of unproductive users.

Potential solutions to avoid pirated indicators
- Can't think of any because all solutions don't seem to help futures.io (formerly BMT) users, they only hinder those who partake in piracy and new futures.io (formerly BMT) users who don't pay money.

Potential solutions to decrease the trolls
- Increase the amount of active moderators
- Decrease the tolerance for flaming
- Encourage more discussions on interesting topics. Your threads always go over well and lead by example. The thread on Random Line Theory is one of my favs all-time. There are plenty of people in this thread who have contributed financially and have elite status yet only have 3-4 posts in 5 months because that was all they thought they could bring to the table. Money makes for a better website but discussion makes for a better community!

Finally, the solution that I think is the most important is to use the power of the group to come up with more potential resolutions: I gladly filled out my survey when I became an elite member and I would gladly do another one to try and find a solution to any issues that futures.io (formerly BMT) has.

I cannot stress this enough... I am extremely cheap. I don't go to clubs that charge cover. I haven't had namebrand cereal in months. I refuse to trade using any platform that requires monthly/yearly fees. Yet I paid $50 for futures.io (formerly BMT) for access to a forum that I don't really use because this community gave me so much for free. The posts in this thread makes it clear that there are many many people who will gladly do whatever you want them to do so why not utilize them? If you need those of us to feel indebted to create more content, let us know, if you need us to be more vigilante about going off topic, let us know. If you need us to report spam/flaming faster. Let us know. I believe that you can use the power of us as a crowd to make the site better much more efficiently than your power as the owner.

If you want the free site to continue to give just as much to the next generation and encourage the indebted feeling that many possess, I believe it is important that we keep things the way they are.

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  #517 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Big Mike View Post
Anyway, I have a possible idea to remedy the issue when someone explicitly wants to put a file in a Free section. Give me some time.

OK, the plan is that I will move to create a specific category, aptly named "Free Section", for any author who wishes to explicitly upload their work to the free section within the Downloads area.

I will follow-up with more details once this is done.

Mike

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  #518 (permalink)
 TolicG 
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JimmyDestri View Post
In my opinion the problem is not easy to solve. I am the best example. I haven´t been posting anything yet, but the simple reason is that I am not a good trader. More than that I do not have a clue of programming (and at last my English is not very good). On the other side I am very thankful for the work of all the guys that support this forum with their postings and programmings and learned a lot. In my opinion Mike is right when he wants to make downloads available only to Elite members, there are really too much people that do not have any respect for the work of others. I would rise the cost of the membership, it is worth more much than $50.

I like this forum very much and wish that it survives.

Mike, I was trying to collect my thoughts about this too, and then read Jimmy's post, and that is exactly my portrait--- I do not post, I don't know how to program, and I also keep loosing money...., BUT I DO greatly appreciate what You do here at futures.io (formerly BMT), and even though there is no simple solution for this problem, I am sure You have wisdom and integrity to make right decision. I really enjoy this forum, and I hope to learn more from You and also from fellow traders ,who are so far ahead of me... Thinking about phone ### and some more info... I think that would not scare people away...I would be honored If you call me, I can talk much better then I can type even though english is not my first language

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  #519 (permalink)
 zacharydw00 
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How about adding another membership tier for entry level downloading. The membership tiers would look something like this...

1) Spectator (Free) membership - Same as current free membership, but No downloading allowed.

2) Pay-to-Ride membership - Price $10-12(cost of 2-3 round-trip commissions). This verifies user info when paying by credit card(depending on how you e-commerce is setup, kind of like the Post Office charging a buck to submit a change of address online), and allows 1 d/l per week. After a certain time period, user may petition a moderator to allow 3 d/l per week provided user has contributed to the community(and an initiation paddling).

3) Unlimited Rides (Elite) membership - No change.

Thanks Mike for keeping the site clean. That's why I became a member
Zac

PS - Has anyone started a post that lists other sites selling indicators from futures.io (formerly BMT)?

Milk-a-What?
 
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  #520 (permalink)
 bugsbunny 
toronto,ontaio
 
 
Posts: 973 since May 2010


Big Mike View Post
OK, the plan is that I will move to create a specific category, aptly named "Free Section", for any author who wishes to explicitly upload their work to the free section within the Downloads area.

I will follow-up with more details once this is done.

Mike


@Big Mike making a free section for everyone is a great idea... but how can that free section confirm that no other stuff is posted that is not supposed to be there to begin with..what i mean is since all code/indicators are Ideas that get implemented... but as you & everyone around knows that these days everyone is a programmer that can do minor tweaks to certain indicators & take credit for it.. cause all the indicators posted in elite are really not that difficult to replicate with a few minor changes & be posted for free in the "FREE SECTION" & why i say it is possible cause every single indicator that futures.io (formerly BMT) has on its website is not copyright protected... Infact we here try to replicate other paid Indicators from other sites... (They might feel the same way when their stuff is replicated) so just a heads up that every single thing has a loop hole & its hard to cover everything... Im not a futures.io (formerly BMT) hater if i was i wouldnt be posting this for you... Im not Elite myself(just a mktwizard) but Like futures.io (formerly BMT).. I spend most of my time here then any where else but that doesnt mean I need Elite Membership to view or Download... a weak community is when everyone is not on the same page.. & a strong one speaks for itself..... Try to get everyone on the same page.. you are a strong Leader & whatever your decision is everyone should respect it..

I Still wish you & futures.io (formerly BMT) best of luck & may God Bless this community the way he has blessed it in the past...

Thanks

Bugs

 
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  #521 (permalink)
 RRider 
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Mike
You have done an outstanding job creating a site of value, and I completely support whatever decision you make here. The web has only a few sites of this kind of value and whatever steps are needed to preserve and support it has my support.

 
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  #522 (permalink)
permeant
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As a recently joined member working my way up to posting more and supporting the site by becoming elite, I have mixed feelings about this. I haven't read every post in this thread, but I'm sure everything I'm about to say has already been said (another reason I haven't posted that much yet since that is the way I feel on many threads).

First of all, I enjoy the site very much, but haven't downloaded anything yet because I'm in the "I don't need no indicators, just following the PA" camp. So honestly this change probably won't affect me too much, but still I'm sure there would be something I'd want to download someday (even if not an indicator) that would provide an incentive to become elite if I weren't already. (I wish the term for paid subscription were something other than elite because that's not something I can become just by paying a little money )

Secondly, I don't think this really addresses the piracy issue since all it does is charge the would-be pirate some indirect licensing fee. But it would also make it harder for some non-paid members from discovering good downloads and subsequently becoming paid members.

May be futures.io (formerly BMT) should have some kind of a pledge drive like public radio to encourage members to contribute (posts, downloads, money) - something similar to the series of PMs during the first month to post something, which really made me want to. I bet a lot of non-elite members would do that even if they don't need any downloads.

permeant

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  #523 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Thanks,
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  #524 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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In case you didn't read my earlier post, I will be working to add an explicit "Free Section" category to the list of categories in the Download section, whereby if the author explicitly wants to put something there they can.

I'm working on some technical problems with the Downloads module right now, plus a webinar today, so I'll try to do it as soon as I can. I'll post here once it is done.

Mike

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  #525 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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The "free section" category has been added.

If the author of a download wants his indicator moved to the section, please send me a PM with a link to the current download so I can move it for you.

Mike

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The Cold Hard Truth: Maybe I Am Not Good Enough w/Chris Gray @ Earn2Trade

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