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Elite only for ALL downloads?
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Elite only for ALL downloads?

  #51 (permalink)
Elite Member
Charlotte NC
 
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Elite

I think it is a good idea. But like other members already mentioned, it will not stop people from posting or selling futures.io (formerly BMT) indicators somewhere else.

In any case no indicator will make you money trading. It's all between our ears, and that cannot be posted anywhere, lol.

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  #52 (permalink)
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Seeing a lot...

of posts in this thread and others today that lead me to think that private colaboration within small groups might be the best way to share things that are sensitive. I will say that some of the tools in my bag are there because other guys posted them. In many cases they had to be decloaked, but if they where "good" that was a snap.

Now some of those elements are "coded in" to larger indicators and strategies. Im not sure how I feel about those being blasted out to the world and Im not sure how guys who I've worked with in the past would like it either.

I will say that if I posted general stuff that everyone already has access to that was simply organized a certain way that I'd have no problem who did what with it. The other side is if I had something I created that was significant, unique, and useful, I'd tend to keep that more private. If someone took that and packaged it for sale there is a chance that they would regret their own birth.

 
  #53 (permalink)
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Seeing as how...


one of those threads was just closed. I think the trend is way hard toward private colaboration for anything that is not general in nature.

 
  #54 (permalink)
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I personally do not mind, if the downloads are elite or non-elite. I think they will find their way to dubious websites anyhow. If I post something, I assume that it is available for everybody sooner or later. My return on investment are comments, which in turn allow me to improve my trading tools and learn about other trading concepts. The return on investment has been excellent, and it is not really dependent on elite or non-elite status of downloads.

I think that the problem lies elsewhere. The forum ows its existence to the entrepreneurship of @Big Mike. It is not easy to animate and maintain such a forum, and I think there are two main concerns

-> covering the cost of running the forum through member's contributions or advertising revenues
-> maintain the quality of the forum

I believe that the second point is crucial As the forum has quickly grown, navigating the contents is more difficult than it has been before. There are more and more threads, which simply repeat discussions that have already taken place elsewhere. Not easy to steer the forum through that development.

The question whether the downloads should be elite or not, is more a financial one. Some of the contents needs to be elite, otherwise nobody would pay for the membership. I would not have done it either, if all content had been freely available.

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  #55 (permalink)
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fat tails..

that first paragraph is really good insight. Open colaboration. Frustrating sometimes though, at least for me. Does Mike have a revenue problem relative to the work he puts in? Maybe a free section, a basic membership (now elite) and then something more above that? If I could get the coding help I need I would absoultly do that. Have a great weekend fat tails.

 
  #56 (permalink)
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BigMike, looking beyond your download question (yes, of course), I wish you/the site had some way to pursue those who pirate members work for resale. And if that meant a general member fee or a higher Elite fee to maintain a legal slush fund for such times, I'd be all for it. What is offered here is worth far more than what is charged. You've created something remarkable and unique... most any means to maintain it the way you want is justified to my mind.

My only further thought would be to give a free pass though to those who are such remarkable contributors, like Fattails, Perry, Jeff, Mike W, Wizard, Cory, etc.

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  #57 (permalink)
The Messenger
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Big Mike View Post
All,

I am contemplating a major / drastic change to the behavior of all downloads on the site. The change would be to make all downloads Elite Only. I mean all downloads, in posts, threads, downloads section, everywhere globally. The only exclusion would be images (screen shots), but all other file types would be available only to Elite Members.

I have mixed feelings on this, so wanted to get some feedback from the users to consider as well before making any decisions. The main reason for the desire to change is to protect the work and to protect the value of the community.

Right now, too many "bots" are downloading our indicators and posting them on other sites as their own. Right now, too many real people register "fake" accounts because they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to type in correct info when they register, all because all they want is to download something and likely never participate further in the site.

I previously tried enforcing a 10 post minimum for downloads, but all that did was have people create 10 junk posts. So that isn't going to work.

It seems the best way to protect the collection of downloads the users have worked very hard on, is to restrict access to only those who are serious about trading.

It certainly doesn't have to be Elite only, but the only other realistic option to implement is the minimum post requirement. If I change it to say 50 (instead of what we tried before, 10) then maybe it would prevent people from creating 50 spam posts just to download something, but still allow people who are serious about trading - but for whatever reason aren't Elite members - to still download. But the problem is, 50 posts is far, far more than what most people have (unfortunately), so such a requirement is likely to just piss off a lot of people.

The desire to change is not about increasing Elite sign ups. In fact, lately I have been wondering if futures.io (formerly BMT) is getting "too big" as we've started to attract some of the trolls from other sites and sometimes some of the posts are getting unfriendly lately. I am fighting this very hard as I am sure you are as well. We all want futures.io (formerly BMT) to remain a unique place, a place where everyone is truly here to help, and not start arguments, call each other names, or other troll like behavior. So this might mean making futures.io (formerly BMT) a more exclusive place where only serious traders are welcome.

Now obviously, just because someone pays for Elite membership does not automatically mean they are a serious trader. But they are probably far less likely to be a trouble maker while paying for the privilege to be here.

So a move of making all downloads Elite only might stunt our growth in terms of new user sign ups to the site, but that is fine with me if it means that what growth we have is of a higher quality and caliber user. I don't want to make the requirement solely based on post count, because there are far, far too many people who do not post much but are still working very hard to improve their trading. These people have signed up for Elite status to help support the site, and I think that entitles them to receive the downloads without a minimum post requirement.

Anyway, so there it is. Some of my many thoughts on the matter. Please share yours. I'm hoping to get a good mix of replies from both Elite Members and non-Elite Members.

Mike


I will jump on the bandwagon with you all too I guess. I don't post much as I am learning more about price action (and spending a lot of time with cjbooth in his trading style ).When I started out in the forums this year, I too was an indicator addict (always thought the indicators had the answer). I bought packages and always thought I'd found the answer (naive mistake that was) and downloaded a heap of them from this site as well. There were then a number of indicators I saw appealing to me in the elite section, and decided $50 was worth the money. In hindsight, funnily enough, it turns out indicators have nothing to do with me be successful or not. The webinars and the information shared among forum members on various ways of trading, and tweaks for improving profitable methods (not systems) was where the real gold was. Sure, indicators can help confirm entry and exit points in the martket, but they don't make the money on their own (thanks to cjbooth for this insight). If it wasn't for the help and insight of the information (threads and webinars) here, I would still be downloading indicators looking for that "ah ha" moment. As the saying goes, "the devil is in the detail". My interpretation of that phrase in this instance is the money making "ah ha" moments that make us profitable traders won't be in the indicators as such, but int the written and spoken words we share among one and other. My two cents worth would be to keep the website as is as far as downloads are concerned (though, without description), and privatise the threads and webinars themselves, as this is where the real worth is. You can throw all the "best" indicators in the world at me (without description on its use) and it won't do a darn thing to improve my trading. But, you pull me aside privately, and collaborate on how best to use it in relation to the market, and I might get somewhere. The best instruction I have received thus far (and very grateful for it) is from cjbooth (in regard to NOT relying on indicators). Sorry to ramble, but I thought you'd like a point of view from a former indicator addict. I still keep a lot of indicators on my computer in case I find another USEFUL way of interpreting the market with them. Whatever you decide, Mike, I'll be around for a long time to come. Traders HELPING traders is what it's all about. Do with the indicators as wish.

When the government fears the people, you have Liberty. When the
people fear the government you have Tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson
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  #58 (permalink)
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Haverchuck View Post
IMHO, it may be a good idea to contact the top indi contributors directly and take a quick survey about what they think.

Case in point, I've noticed that Fat Tails opts to post his indis in the non-elite section. I'd hate to think of a situation where Fat Tails and other quality contributors like him are no longer compelled to share their work.

i also agree and glad that fatty posted above.. the whole taking indies to other sites will not stop with a complete membership. what got me to join the elite club was the webinars(could be because the indies i wanted were already free, thanks fatty!). this is one of the things i think you should do allot more of.. more webinars.. the ones with vendors, brokers, softwares are nice. you get to see what they off and they give away deals for their services, you do a good job with them. the ones you do with real hard information from people from the forums(fatty, perry, etc..) are the ones you should try to do more of.. those are a major attraction in my mind.

if the the devs mostly like the idea i say go for it. like i said, it wont stop the spread of the indies around to other sites but it will bring a higher class clientele which benefits us all.

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
  #59 (permalink)
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As others have said, I don't think an Elite membership requirement is going to stop indicators from appearing on other sites. Once an indicator or (more importantly, I'd say) an idea is posted, it's out there in the world, and will take on a life of its own if it has any validity. (There's also the gray area of indicators that have subsequently been tweaked and then put up for sale - at what point does that become acceptable?) In any case, we know that the real value of this site doesn't lie in the indicators, but in the forums themselves.

I'm more concerned about the other issue Mike mentions, the size of the site and the kind of posters it now attracts. Requiring Elite membership might help that, and if so, I would be all for it. Another possibility might be to put a cap on the membership number - and perhaps requiring a minimum number of posts within a set period in order to continue the membership.

 
  #60 (permalink)
The Messenger
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futuretrader View Post
As others have said, I don't think an Elite membership requirement is going to stop indicators from appearing on other sites. Once an indicator or (more importantly, I'd say) an idea is posted, it's out there in the world, and will take on a life of its own if it has any validity. (There's also the gray area of indicators that have subsequently been tweaked and then put up for sale - at what point does that become acceptable?) In any case, we know that the real value of this site doesn't lie in the indicators, but in the forums themselves.

I'm more concerned about the other issue Mike mentions, the size of the site and the kind of posters it now attracts. Requiring Elite membership might help that, and if so, I would be all for it. Another possibility might be to put a cap on the membership number - and perhaps requiring a minimum number of posts within a set period in order to continue the membership.


minimum number of set posts may no go down so well, as people like me spend more time trading (and learning how to trade for that matter) than posting on the forum. But the idea of capping the membership numbers because of it's size...now that's not a bad idea at all.

When the government fears the people, you have Liberty. When the
people fear the government you have Tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson

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