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Elite only for ALL downloads?


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Elite only for ALL downloads?

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  #401 (permalink)
 etn75 
belgium
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ym, es
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Hi Mike,

For a novice like me, it's that difficult to know which direction i should go.
Training is a priority. The information is very important. Trading takes time, patience and insider information ...

I wanted to thank you and thank the community because I could actually have a chance to have access to training, forum, and to discover NinjaTrader.
I have read of people who engage in trading and share trading methods, discuss their approach (complete+webinar+indicator) and the community is very broad.

Which saves a lot of time to a novice like me.



ps: Sorrry for my English.

 
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  #402 (permalink)
 tre436 
london, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT7
Trading: TR909
 
Posts: 58 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 41 given, 36 received

i agree with downloads for elite only, its nothing for what you get in return.

 
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  #403 (permalink)
 kees 
Nederland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Zen-Fire
 
Posts: 18 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 42 given, 4 received

If this is going to solve the problems what started all this so be it, make downloads only for elite members.

 
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  #404 (permalink)
 Hideyoshi 
Germany
 
Experience: None
Platform: Oanda
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 9 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 555 given, 2 received


sunny2010 View Post
The case for and against - both have good enough reasons to support each sides argument.
To BM ....Examine your reasons for setting up this site. Pls don't be influenced by .."misuse" by others. Pls think of the old adage ......" just because the dog barks......does not mean you sell yourself and bark as well.".....

+1

 
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  #405 (permalink)
 trayon 
Moscow
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SC, currenex, saxo
Broker: IB
Trading: EUR/USD
 
Posts: 1 since May 2011
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received

Totally agree. If you are interested in this community the price is low. About contributing may be it needs time to involve.

 
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  #406 (permalink)
 Aurora9 
Manchester UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MTPredictor
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 0 received

I've only recently found this site so no posts todate and still learning but then again even the 'advanced' members are still gaining knowledge.

It depends on what you are trying to achieve with this site.

I sense the frustration but to change its present format appears to be moving totally away from the initial concept.

If you are considering going 'elite' then perhaps Jesus should have kept religion for the disciples only ( which would have saved a few wars over the centuries ).

In life a mentor can become invaluable whether it is Jesus, Big mike, other elite members ( before someone points it out - yes, I know Jesus is not a member of this site )

I may sit hidden in the classroom and not contribute much but who knows in the future .......... ?


 
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  #407 (permalink)
 henry218 
sao paulo
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: stocks
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Dear Big Mike, go ahead, only for elite, and you can charge 75U$ too. If someone is serious, he will pay.

 
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  #408 (permalink)
 jamesdean46 
lagrange,georgia,usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja trader
Broker: Amp Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 11 given, 0 received

I think it should be elite download only. Speaking of posting , I do not post alot due to my traveling and my job. I work on a ship for 3 to 4 months and then come home and usually go to school and train and with very limited internet access while I am gone at times. I am serious about trading and I am wanting to trade instead of shipping. So posting requirements would not be good for me, I am hoping to test my strategies more and be able to share the info and this is a great web site.

 
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  #409 (permalink)
 supermht 
Naperville IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NT broker
Trading: NQ ES 6E GC CL
 
Posts: 958 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,189 given, 659 received

Mike, Just do it, I saw too many cheap users oppose it because they want everything free without contribution. make all downloads elite.

 
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  #410 (permalink)
 MultiCharts 
Columbus, Ohio, US
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: Multiple/Multiple
Trading: ES, EUR/USD
 
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Posts: 168 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 74 given, 171 received

It's $50 and once. It's like getting 10 drinks at Starbucks. I say, if you find value in the site, support it. Imho, elite only downloads are ok.

MultiCharts - Raising the Trading Standard.
Please send me a private message if you have any further questions about MultiCharts
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  #411 (permalink)
 newlifemkt 
nashville
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Metatrader, omnitrader, tradestation, Window on Wall Street
Broker: amp/zenfire
Trading: ES TF Ym eur/usd audnsd
 
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Posts: 8 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 18 given, 1 received

If this site is devoted to helping people and someone downloads something, makes it their own. They make a profit with it by selling it or trading with it, Have they been helped? Or is it really about the money, copyright infringement, etc.

If you are a bridge between the unknowing, unprofitable and the knowing, profitable, then do you get upset because someone walks over you? You help all who cross this way, just some not in the way you originally intended. If a bum sleeps on the sidewalk, he was helped by providing a place to sleep. A skateboarder sliding and grinding down the steps and rails, was he helped by providing a place to play?

This is an execellant place for a lot of purposes and when it really gets down to the nitty gritty. Trading is about you, who are you in the market place. You must know yourself first and that takes time. Whether I paid someone else for an indicator of got it for free on futures.io (formerly BMT) is of little relevance if it helped me to learn something. But I think we all are moving toward the place where indicators are of little value to us on our charts. In the process we develop intuition of what to expect from the Movement in the Market Place.

Just a different perspective.

Champions are made by risking more than others think is safe,
Dreaming more than others think is practical,
and expecting more than others think is possible.
 
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  #412 (permalink)
 heywally 
Pismo Beach CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, Fidelity for 'swing' trades
Trading: ES, NQ, IBB, IWM, NG
 
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Posts: 160 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 80 given, 90 received


MultiCharts View Post
It's $50 and once. It's like getting 10 drinks at Starbucks. I say, if you find value in the site, support it. Imho, elite only downloads are ok.

Ditto, short of a technical way to stop the bots and thieves, this would at least slow them down. Elite-only download - yes.

Once again, the few lowest common denominators make our lives a pain in the ass.

An inexpensive way to go after them legally would be good also .....

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
 
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  #413 (permalink)
 bundwidower 
london
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, cqg, TT
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 9 since May 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

For what is is worth....

I have traded for a number of years but have never coded. The download facility is great as it helps with learning how to develop your own (in my case a very painful and long winded experience) I do believe that the nature of sharing is great and very helpful to me.

I do think that it is best for the Elite section.

In my experience there seems to be many people who want something for nothing. There are also many people who comment for no good reason and to no benefit except to themselves. They like to vindicate themselves with comments. I find these frustrating as a decent thread can suddenly become too many pages and you waste time trying to get decent comments.

Getting rid of useless comments should be a priority. Certainly trying to get more comments per page would help save a lot of time. This thread is now 42 pages long ! too much to read all of the comments.

Keep it succinct and exclusive and don't worry too much about what others think.

 
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  #414 (permalink)
 blockschip 
New York, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 10 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 11 given, 0 received

Not sure if anyone posted this idea yet, but you could refuse to accept ads from sites that repost I indicators stolen from here

 
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  #415 (permalink)
 tm2627 
Philadelphia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: YM,CL
 
Posts: 1 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 12 given, 0 received

Hi Mike! I'm against post requirements.I'm not experienced trader and I have nothing to post yet.But I very thankfull to you and everyone who make posts.Good learning.$50 dollars is nothing in compare to what you get from this site.

 
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  #416 (permalink)
 dorschden 
Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 110 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 54 given, 1,087 received

This is a great site and Big Mike and all the mods did a really great job here. In my opinion this forum is not only so good because of all the indicators rather than the people and the way they talk to each other, the shared ideas and to get new contacts and met other trading buddies.

Sharing/selling of indicators
You simple can not stop people to download indicators here and sell or share them on other places in the internet. When you know how to search the internet you will find almost any indicator that was initially uploaded here (elite or not) on at least three other sites.

All authors have to be aware that once they upload their stuff, it will spread to other sites. They simple can't control what happens to their stuff. So if you don't want that, you shouldn't upload anything. Captchas are good to prevent bots from downloading.

The other thing is, that people download the greatest indicators but because they don't know how to use them, they going to search for the next amazing looking indicator without taking the time to read about them or try to find a strategy to use them in a way that suits their personal trading style. Let them download the indicator and it will only help the people who are willing to spend some time to understand the idea behind the indicator and how to use it. And when somebody does this I don't mind that (s)he gets the indicator for free.

So I would NOT make downloads only accessible to elite members, it wouldn't have any effect. I think the current solution is good enough, that the author can choose if (s)he wants it in the elite or public section.

Trolls/unfriendly post
This is by far a bigger problem. Like Big Mike said, the friendly and very helpful community here is what makes this forum so unique and I think this is the main reason why people are sharing ideas here and try to help each other. They don't have to bother about senseless argumentations.

I have a split opinion about the membership fee. On one hand it will definitely cut out some trolls and that's good and probably the way to go. But on the other hand if you don't get access to some good information for free you probably don't want to become a member. So, there has to be some information for free.

Like Big Mike said a post count will be probably not helpful. I guess from 20 people 12 will never be participate 7 are here for learning and only 1 person has something to share and post something and that's good because it keeps the level high. But this 1 person can get more access to the site with her/his number of posts. But I like the idea that people get a little bit more access when they give a certain number of thanks to useful posts. With this way the useful posts will become more clearer as well because they have likely a few thanks below them.
But with this solution the problem is to arrange what information are free from the start and which information are free with the time.

 
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  #417 (permalink)
 steveg 
Lakeland, FL, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 13 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 14 given, 3 received

Hey Mike,

Personally, the free downloads are what pushed my to sign on as a member. I figured if this stuff was free, the elite must be great (and it is). I saw it as sort of a preview of what I could get with membership. That said, I am fine with whatever you decide. This is your site and you need to manage it the way that works best and most efficiently for you. Do what you need to do and the rest will work itself out.

Steve

 
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  #418 (permalink)
 Arno66 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Dorman
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 18 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 645 given, 25 received

I agree, Elite only. Thanks Mike for the site.

 
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  #419 (permalink)
 rainbowtrader 
Munich, Bavaria
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart, NinjaTrader, CTS T4
Broker: CTS T4
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 19 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 7 received

Hi Mike,

I am still a learner and therefore very hesitant to submit any posts. A post requirement would force me to submit posts that might not be of much help at my current state of market knowledge.

 
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  #420 (permalink)
 kazino 
Belgium
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ProRealTime, VisualChart, MT4, TWS
Broker: IB
 
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Posts: 1 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received

I'm an elite member for one year now and I have never regret the 50$ I gave. All the content available on your website definitly worth the money. Even if some people could complain to pay 50$ to download their first indicator, I'm pretty sure they will not regret their "investment" afterwards. And as another member already said, if you plan to enter the game, 50$ to help improve your skills is a gift.


:bmt-rocks:

 
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  #421 (permalink)
Playfair
Iowa City
 
 
Posts: 2 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

This probably has already been said, but many people who wish to learn and download indicators for free often don't use them because there is a lack of perceived value. Taking that extra step to become an elite member may force a lot of lurkers who are just hoarding information to utilize the downloads to earn a return on their money spent.

I vote for elite only downloads. (Now where is my checkbook?)

<-- classic lurker type

 
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  #422 (permalink)
 diverdan 
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multicharts, R
Trading: EUR / USD
 
Posts: 185 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 106 given, 98 received

Hi Mike

For me, the value futures.io (formerly BMT) offers is not in the indicators or strategies, but in the wealth of discussion and advice you get from seasoned professionals and (for the most part) the absence of abuse and idiot comments.

I contribute indicators and strategies. If someone wants to download these, let them as they are missing the point.

I would much rather concentrate our efforts on keeping the forum free of idiots and focused on the core topics of education, sharing experiences and knowledge amongst ourselves to make us into better traders for which futures.io (formerly BMT) is famous for and makes it such a fantastic place to participate in.

Daniel

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
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  #423 (permalink)
TRIPLETOP
JERUSALEM, ISRAEL
 
 
Posts: 7 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Mike,
I am new to the forum, so my thoughts are not much more than thoughts. Personaly, I enjoy the forum and the response to my posts. Truthfully, I joined because I was looking for a download (which you had - thank you). If not for my search, I would never have landed here, so I am quite grateful.
I would like to thank you for the time and effort you put into this forum.

 
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  #424 (permalink)
 bwlinux 
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: ES, TF
 
Posts: 2 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Downloads for elite status only: Yes

If people aren't willing to invest the small amount to become a complete member of the site then they probably aren't willing to invest time in the material available here.

Personally I signed up as an elite member to get to the webinars. So making the downloads another benefit to elite members is certainly reasonable. Just make sure the non-elite members can actually look at the download section though, that way they can peruse the list of great downloads and when they find something they want the can become an elite member to get it.

Thanks for asking Big Mike

--
bwlinux

 
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  #425 (permalink)
 gruegg 
Indianapolis, IN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Currency Futures
 
Posts: 1 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Mike,
Good idea, anything to clean up the troll activity. I'm not much of a poster but occasionally will participate.
Keep up the good work!

 
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  #426 (permalink)
 aFei 
USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader,IB(TWS)
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: ES,6E,CL
 
Posts: 20 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 41 given, 1 received

support

 
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  #427 (permalink)
 dale1670 
Nepean, ON
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: interactive brokers
Trading: es
 
Posts: 25 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 30 given, 4 received

Although a lot of the indicaors are available in some form for free elswhere, others have been created by members who have dedicated a lot of time and effort to creating them and improving the forum. I would say downloads for elite members only.

Dale

 
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  #428 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
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Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,859 received

dichotomy to me. Either yea or nay on making downloads elite only. Mike did, I guess, ask for opinion. Mike you are getting lots of opinion, but in your revision of the original post or should I say clarification, you made your heart on this issue pretty clear.

Go ahead man, do what you think. You are gracious to consider the views of others. In doing that you acknowledge that the fourm, while you created it , is not "yours". That said the collective here, should submit to your authority and your leadership on this.

Interesting that so many want to debate so intensly a $50 dollar decision instead of trade the 100 tick moves.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
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  #429 (permalink)
 Aurora9 
Manchester UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MTPredictor
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 0 received

So in the main, existing Elite members say yes. But you would expect that. Interestingly Fat Tails, a renown contributor, appears to be less strident ( I believe I've seen a message that leaves me with that impression ? )

Other members have not really passed an opinion.

Question : Does the site want to attract more members ? Does it want to educate ? We are all seeking knowledge. Wishing to learn. If you close the gate then how do prospective members place a value on the site and its members ? It is unlikely that a limited trial offer of membership will be of any use because of the likely restrictions to what prospective members will be able to gain access to.

Question : If members publish coded indicators then it is likely that they will have already considered how that code may be distributed and in who's hands it will end up ? Is the debate about stealing indicators ( previously offered for public use on the site ) or commercialism ?

 
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  #430 (permalink)
 tonylou 
darien, IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Dorman, Zen-Fire
Trading: es, 6e
 
Posts: 6 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 18 given, 0 received


Big Mike View Post
All,

I am contemplating a major / drastic change to the behavior of all downloads on the site. The change would be to make all downloads Elite Only. I mean all downloads, in posts, threads, downloads section, everywhere globally. The only exclusion would be images (screen shots), but all other file types would be available only to Elite Members.

I have mixed feelings on this, so wanted to get some feedback from the users to consider as well before making any decisions. The main reason for the desire to change is to protect the work and to protect the value of the community.

Right now, too many "bots" are downloading our indicators and posting them on other sites as their own. Right now, too many real people register "fake" accounts because they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to type in correct info when they register, all because all they want is to download something and likely never participate further in the site.

I previously tried enforcing a 10 post minimum for downloads, but all that did was have people create 10 junk posts. So that isn't going to work.

It seems the best way to protect the collection of downloads the users have worked very hard on, is to restrict access to only those who are serious about trading.

It certainly doesn't have to be Elite only, but the only other realistic option to implement is the minimum post requirement. If I change it to say 50 (instead of what we tried before, 10) then maybe it would prevent people from creating 50 spam posts just to download something, but still allow people who are serious about trading - but for whatever reason aren't Elite members - to still download. But the problem is, 50 posts is far, far more than what most people have (unfortunately), so such a requirement is likely to just piss off a lot of people.

The desire to change is not about increasing Elite sign ups. In fact, lately I have been wondering if futures.io (formerly BMT) is getting "too big" as we've started to attract some of the trolls from other sites and sometimes some of the posts are getting unfriendly lately. I am fighting this very hard as I am sure you are as well. We all want futures.io (formerly BMT) to remain a unique place, a place where everyone is truly here to help, and not start arguments, call each other names, or other troll like behavior. So this might mean making futures.io (formerly BMT) a more exclusive place where only serious traders are welcome.

Now obviously, just because someone pays for Elite membership does not automatically mean they are a serious trader. But they are probably far less likely to be a trouble maker while paying for the privilege to be here.

So a move of making all downloads Elite only might stunt our growth in terms of new user sign ups to the site, but that is fine with me if it means that what growth we have is of a higher quality and caliber user. I don't want to make the requirement solely based on post count, because there are far, far too many people who do not post much but are still working very hard to improve their trading. These people have signed up for Elite status to help support the site, and I think that entitles them to receive the downloads without a minimum post requirement.

Anyway, so there it is. Some of my many thoughts on the matter. Please share yours. I'm hoping to get a good mix of replies from both Elite Members and non-Elite Members.

Mike

---- ADDED MON 9/5/11 9:36PM EST ----

Moderator Notice
Moderator Notice



Thanks,
Mike

I would allow downloads to Elite members only. The cost is minimal. If somebody can't afford it, they're in the wrong business. There are people who will "take" all day but they're probably not what you want to grow the room. I have gotten many benefits from my membership and enjoy it very much.
Thanks for doing this.

 
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  #431 (permalink)
 Tasker_182 
Cedar Rapids, iowa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader - Continuum
Trading: 6E, TF, 6J
 
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Posts: 593 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 431 given, 1,143 received

As many have stated this is a great site, wealth of knowledge and a good place to just hang out. Perhaps a solution is to make the entire site Read only unless you are elite member. That way everyone outside of futures.io (formerly BMT) elite can see all of the posts but cannot post. Can see but cannot download indicators, can see but cannot watch webinars. Not 100% sure but i think I have run across other sites like that.


Regards,

 
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  #432 (permalink)
 ezhuthu 
Long Island, NY
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Mike,
I am not an elite member yet, but I certainly support the idea of a one-time membership fee to participate in a serious forum such as this. As you mentioned, there is no pefect way to keep the forum as an effective and cohesive group with "sustained" membership, but elite membership is probably one that is practical. Good Luck.
Ezhuthu

 
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  #433 (permalink)
 lawtan 
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Mike, I truly appreciate what you have done so far as this forum has greatly helped to establish my trading career. you are justified to do this. Don't delay any longer. Just do it!

 
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  #434 (permalink)
 louiswelt 
Denver
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Currency Futures
 
Posts: 11 since May 2011
Thanks: 3 given, 5 received

I think downloads for Elite members only is a good idea as it both serves as a filter and helps with the overhead.

 
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  #435 (permalink)
 rglazer 
vineland New Jersey
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Thinkorswim
Broker: Thinkorswim
Trading: ES, YM, stocks, options
 
Posts: 2 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 0 received

This is such a great place for learning and research, that no one who is looking for education and learning to trade, they should be willing to contribute such a small amount of money. I am not one for speeches but I agree to the charge for all.

Thank you Mike for this wonderful forum.

 
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  #436 (permalink)
 JimFrey 
Janesville, WI
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: stocks and ETFs
 
Posts: 1 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

I am new to futures.io (formerly BMT) but would like to say this site is awesome! I knew the minute I registered, that I would gladly pay the small sum required for the wealth of info provided on this site. Anybody that is serious about trading, would silly not to realize this. As to whether Elite status should be required, I'm too new to have an opinion!

 
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  #437 (permalink)
 Zeos6 
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts, TradeStation, E-Signal
Broker: Amp Futures/CQG; TransAct Futures
Trading: Currency Futures, Commodities Futures, Bonds, Stocks, Indices
 
Posts: 16 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Hi,

I understand the issue and it is a problem. However, I think there is value in allowing access to files to everyone, not just Elite members. There is a possible workaround that would preserve the capability and solve the BOT issue. It is an approach one other site uses, and quite effectively.

The idea is to require a certain site ranking for a person before they can download. Every time a person posts in the forum, he should get a certain number of points, say 2. If the question/post is useful, well thought out, he gets more points. If the question is stupid/pointless/annoying, points get taken off. When he acquires say 35 points or more, he gets to download. This will drive intelligent posts to the site and add value tot he site. The ranking of the questions coud come from the moderator and/or the current Elite community.

Just a thought.

 
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  #438 (permalink)
 ollie 
St. Petersburg, Fl
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES,NQ, YM, CL,6E
 
ollie's Avatar
 
Posts: 199 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 26 given, 227 received

There are over 18,000 registered users on the forum, many of these people do not come here for "free" indicators buy for information and support from a community of fellow trasders. Moving all indicators to Elite only will not change this, people will still be able to get the information that they need.

The greater issue is protecting the indicators that are already here as well as all future work. Move all indicators to Elite, and take those donations and keep them in a legal fund. Every member of futures.io (formerly BMT) is a watchdog and will report when they spot an indicator that originated on the forum, now Big Mike all ready has money put aside to legally protect the intellectual property that was stolen from the forum.

Keep things as simple as possible, but no simplier. Albert Einstein

If you can't explain it to an eight year old it's to complicated
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  #439 (permalink)
 eip1 
Pinole, California USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 1 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received

I have been a Elite member for a while and I enjoyed your site a lot. I support the change to download for Elite members only. The price for an Elite membership is really nothing compare to the value received from this site. Thanks for the good work.
Ed

 
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  #440 (permalink)
 Lejcus 
Czech Republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ninja/ Continuum
Trading: Anything that move
 
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Posts: 43 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 216 given, 64 received

Hi
Thank everyone on this site for sharing your ideas free, because that is what make it best of all.

Now to the question. I think it is up to the makers of indicator if the want to share their work for free with risk of stealing or for small contribution to the community. I think that elite only download wont stop some persons to steal and profit from others work. World isn't perfect place we want to be. just accept that you cant change everyone.

much better would be limiting number of downloads per month per user. no one needs try ten or twenty new indicator each month. It will force people stay with them longer, maybe learn how to use it and maybe share their findings on forum.

 
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  #441 (permalink)
 gomad 
Tirgu Mures, Romania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: ZenFire
Trading: CL, GC
 
Posts: 36 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 6 received

I do think it is a good idea, and there is a chance to grow in quality. I really like this site and it has been a great resource.

Gomad

 
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  #442 (permalink)
 ClayB1 
Frisco, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTader, BookMap
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, 6E
 
Posts: 3 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 11 given, 0 received

I'm an active participant in the NinjaTrader forum, and although I have communicated with Big Mike and other members directly via e-mail, this is my first post on this forum an Elite member.

I was unaware that "bots" and other unscrupulous people were downloading indicators and posting them on other sites as their own, or even worse - selling them. I'm 100% in favor of doing whatever is necessary to protect the contributors to this forum from the actions of such parasites. The good people who share their time and skill with others on this site deserve to receive recognition for their efforts and to be protected from thieves. If that means restricting all downloads to Elite members, or even more drastic measures, then so be it.

Just one opinion.

 
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  #443 (permalink)
drummer
orlando
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Your reason:

"It seems the best way to protect the collection of downloads the users have worked very hard on, is to restrict access to only those who are serious about trading."




I'm struck by your words: "protect" and "serious". How can you determine what level of protection the collection needs; from such a large group of people (traders and people being less of a trader), and how serious these folks are. Really, can you come even close to knowing that level. What is so wrong now that you think you have to step in? I want you to try and pay for costs, but unless that is the sole reason you make changes, then you are being what you call yourself, "Big Mike" among us that don't have control of what you have control of. If people wanted their uploads protected then they probably wouldn't upload their material. Major changes should be based on costs only. Nobody wants you to pay money for all of our benefit. If costs are your reason then make all the changes you need, otherwise let the group benefit the way it is now.

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  #444 (permalink)
 sp139214 
Norcross, Ga
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, Think Or Swim
Broker: Mirus Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 15 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received

I totally agree. Make it elite only.

 
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  #445 (permalink)
 Aurora9 
Manchester UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MTPredictor
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 0 received

Can we hear more from those members who are not Elite members. Give your thoughts.

 
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  #446 (permalink)
 supermht 
Naperville IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NT broker
Trading: NQ ES 6E GC CL
 
Posts: 958 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,189 given, 659 received

my god, only 50 dollars! debate for $50

 
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  #447 (permalink)
 Aurora9 
Manchester UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MTPredictor
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 0 received

I did not ask for the debate. Anyhow, what has cost got to do with it ?

 
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  #448 (permalink)
StockJock
Chicago + Illinois/USA
 
 
Posts: 256 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 153 received

Mike,

This is quite a dilemma that there are some visitors that have such an effect on the forum that it creates unpleasant issues. You have a great forum, Mike, and its a lot of responsibility to administer it. I can see your point in wanting to make the downloads section restricted to elite membership and the other responses from members shows that they are concerned as well. I participate in discussions in a number of trader's forums and I'm not looking forward to all of them charging for downloads, but maybe that's where these issues will lead all of them. It is my preference that the downloads remain free; however, I respect any decision that you make, because I know that you are taking care of all us members.

 
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  #449 (permalink)
 Zipper Ripper 
Bowie, MD, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: futures
 
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Posts: 25 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 58 given, 8 received

People will always find a way to work around whatever "fix" it tried.

I consider myself a serious trader, however, I don't post a lot. But if I have something to say I will. So by Mike's standards I'm not contributing?

I really like this site and would hate to see it change.

DW

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  #450 (permalink)
 ProfLogic 
Ohio USA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: MultiCharts
Trading: Crude Oil
 
Posts: 2 since May 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received

I am migrating here from EliteTrader because of the Elite status offered here. I'm all for "Pay to Play".

 
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  #451 (permalink)
 AAtrader 
Woodbury Minnesota
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: CL/6E/TF/GC
 
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Posts: 288 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 32 given, 30 received

Being an elite member for downloads sounds more than reasonable to me.

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  #452 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB and free NT
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 4,033 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 1,507 given, 2,585 received

Hi Mike,

Let me start by saying I haven't read all the thread.
------------------------------------
I believe that spiritually the grimy will always fail.

The thesis of you site - as I understand it - was people helping people. So therefore it is more about good energy.

Those who developed and share their work thoughts and ideas do so in this spirit to help each other. Many have spent countless hours of their time giving. There are great examples of this. I recall a problem I had and @ trendisyourfriend posted something he had paid to have programmed for him. Beth posted hundreds of pages in her journal. @ sharky, @ cory, @ Fat Tails, @ LukeGeniol @ redratsal @ Gabriyele and so many others have given freely and generously of their time, knowledge and effort.


What about new people?
If the come to your site and feel note I said feel that this guy is only interested in my money - why would they go elite? If there is little of value on the free side then why would they bother to stay? You must nourish the free side if you want your site to flourish - for the members who give, give freely.

I know that I have spent countless hours taking the time to detail ideas in posts (perhaps with much success LOL) but I take the extra time, attention and detail to make my posts professional. If they find value to the reader then I am well paid for I have served my fellow man.

I do not ask for money for my time and effort -thanks would be nice but that is gravy.

You had a tablet contest - teach your technique. I gave, what I felt, was valuable input to improving the contest because you asked for it. (such as each person posting a summary of what the would teach - so readers could go to the threads that interested them as their time to read is limited -- as FT so correctly pointed out when you asked why so few voted). This effort was to help you. Help you make a stronger site - and as a by-product more money for you.

--------------
The work and time and effort in programming by the members is given.
But are the indicators the only value to the site? NO!!!
Ideas methods and discussion are very important.

You can't buy success in trading. You can't slap on an indicator, turn the handle and pump out money. It just doesn't work that way. You know this - we all do.
-----------
There will always be those who try to take the easy route to money - go to the site -get some indicators and repackage and sell them to the naive. They - like other grimy, low-moral, people will fail. But the Good Omnipresent Divine will take care of that.
---------
Clumsy measures won't work but what they will do is ruin the energy of your site.
You are only looking at it from "defense against the stealing bots" in my humble opinion.

-------------
I have a better solution for:
"Right now, too many "bots" are downloading our indicators and posting them on other sites as their own. Right now, too many real people register "fake" accounts because they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to type in correct info when they register, all because all they want is to download something and likely never participate further in the site.

I previously tried enforcing a 10 post minimum for downloads, but all that did was have people create 10 junk posts. So that isn't going to work."


.(ok lots of typing -probably a waste of time. so I'd better stop)

(In passing I totally agree with sharky's "if I want to post a free indicator or if I want to post and elite indicator why can't I?"

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #453 (permalink)
 jbird314 
Edmond, OK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 1 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I believe 'pay to play' works, and would support it's implementation in the case here, placing all downloadable content in the Elite section. I do believe that those whose intent is of a devious nature, will pay for the privilege and still behave the same way, and if that happens, then the effectiveness of the Elite section will become diluted eventually. You might consider creating one additional level above Elite, as it pertains to downloads only for content that would be considered by Mike and/or others of his choosing, to be more of a confidential and code sensitive nature and price that level accordingly - just to create one more economic barrier to those who wish to behave poorly.

 
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  #454 (permalink)
trigon
Czech Republic
 
 
Posts: 24 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 6 received

So...I am not elite member..yet. But making all downloads only for elite traders makes sense. There are too many people registered here and you simply can't watch all of them. So - if I would need to download anything I think there are many possibilities how to do it. For example I can ask politely the person who created the stuff I want to download and maybe he will send me link (its up to him than if he think he can trust me). Or I can simply buy elite membership. So I think it is definitely a good idea to lock download sections to elites only!

 
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  #455 (permalink)
 shodson 
Quantoholic
OC, California, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB/TWS, NinjaTrader, ToS
Broker: IB, ToS, Kinetick
Trading: stocks, options, futures, VIX
 
shodson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,962 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 529 given, 3,655 received

I've been reading a lot of these posts with interest. I think a lot of you though are still missing the point.

As someone that does contribute code, I am fully aware that someone might use my code in ways I may have or have not imagined, including

- copy it, call it their own, and sell it as a trading system
- use it to successfully improve their trading

I am fully aware of these "risks" when I have chosen to upload it.

There are reasons when I choose NOT to upload something, such as

- Someone might copy it, call it their own, and sell it as a trading system and maybe I want to reserve the right to do that myself so I want to keep it a "secret"
- Someone might use it successfully in their own trading, but if too many people do the the supposed "edge" it will no longer work for me
- It is complex and I don't want to be bothered with customer support issues/private messages from other futures.io (formerly BMT) members

If someone is going to use my code to start a business, I say more power to them. They are doing something with it I either chose not to do or didn't think would be worth the time. I am fully aware that these quacks will not attribute anything to my work, but they may be somewhat justified in their negligence because they will probably make modifications and enhancements that might make it almost unrecognizable from my original code. Also, the steps of taking an indicator or strategy gleaned off a forum and turning it into a (viable) commercial product takes (a lot of) work.

In the open source software world, innovation is often spurred on by other's works. Open source developers are dealing with these sort of issues all of the time. Their remedy is to choose how they want to license the software to the world (GNU, MIT, Apache, etc) and that's their choice. Some people/companies that break those licenses have been sued and sometimes lost, having to pay up to millions of dollars in damages.

So maybe futures.io (formerly BMT) just needs to offer different licensing agreements to the uploaders, and let the contributors battle it out in the courts if someone has broken the license agreement. I'd hate to turn off the spigot of generosity and innovation. One thing developers could do is put the license agreement the software is licensed under as comments in the header of the code.

Plus, and this is for Mike, futures.io (formerly BMT) gets serious Google juice from these public downloads. Just Google "Ninjatrader {x}" where {x} is the name of an indicator, like roonius' "Slingshot" indicator. futures.io (formerly BMT) often ranks high on these searches. It'd be a shame to lose so much juice. On the other hand, maybe Mike just doesn't want to deal with 30+ new members a day, and like he said, if he could find a way to filter out scammers and BS-ers to protect the content's quality then he'd be all for it. So how else can scammers be filtered out? It's an age-old problem when managing online communities like this. In the end, it usually takes human moderation and vetting to do it.

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  #456 (permalink)
 dee50 
cordoba spain
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: 6E
 
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Posts: 72 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 77 given, 38 received

Pay per download. Elite only downloads. There are soo many sites/forums with free downloads, especially for Metatrader, but soo few for Ninjatrader. There are sooo many indis available, how many can one person use? I personally only use Two, although I have downloaded and tried many,many, would I have done so if I had had to pay to get them, probably not.

Thank you to all of you cleverer than I people who have the ability to turn their thoughts into indis, but if you do not want your intelectual property stolen then why post them in the free section, although, if I wanted to make capital from your property, $50 would be a small price to pay when you consider how much it costs to have an indi written.

Is anything that is available actually that Unique that a similar version can not be found elsewhere, look at the so called proprietary systems, most of their components come from within the free domain anyway. And just about everything is a rehash of someone elses ideas that have been around since electronic trading started.

I am a Ninjatrader Trader and use this forum for that purpose. I do not post because I do not presume to have the knowledge to pass on to others, I rarely comment because there are enough people with opinions on all the forums. The Ninjatrader support forum solves my problems, usually quickly.

Why am I here? I paid $50 to get access to an indi that was not available in the free area.

Does that answer any of your questions.

 
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  #457 (permalink)
 dee50 
cordoba spain
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: 6E
 
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Posts: 72 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 77 given, 38 received


shodson View Post

Quoting 
I've been reading a lot of these posts with interest. I think a lot of you though are still missing the point.

As someone that does contribute code, I am fully aware that someone might use my code in ways I may have or have not imagined, including

- copy it, call it their own, and sell it as a trading system
- use it to successfully improve their trading

I am fully aware of these "risks" when I have chosen to upload it.


Quoting 
On the other hand, maybe Mike just doesn't want to deal with 30+ new members a day, and like he said, if he could find a way to filter out scammers and BS-ers to protect the content's quality then he'd be all for it. So how else can scammers be filtered out? It's an age-old problem when managing online communities like this. In the end, it usually takes human moderation and vetting to do it.

If I had read your post before I wrote mine, I would not have written it. You pretty much say it all.

 
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  #458 (permalink)
 Ferg 
Florida, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Equities
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

I am in favour of locking it down and allowing Elite members only downloads.

Thanks

 
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  #459 (permalink)
 pullbacktrader 
Cologne / Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus/Zenfire, IB
Trading: 6E, FGBL, FDAX, ES, NQ, CL
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 14 received

Hi Big Mike,

like to say that this Forum is very helpful and i like it very much. $50 would be a small price for all the imputs, i get by reading the threats. Thanks for all.

Regards from Germany with my broken english... :-)

PullbackTrader

 
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  #460 (permalink)
 bobc 
Boksburg, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IG Markets
Broker: Ideal
Trading: Stocks,Indexes
 
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Posts: 43 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 32 given, 30 received

Dear Big Mike,
I have tried to read all the posts.
And the majority are prepared to pay to become elite members.
Now how did I find your forum. I was directed here by Google.
I think I was looking for info on a book ."Trading in lion country"
And I think your forum had the info.
But if I was asked to first pay $50, I would have moved on.
There are dozens of trading forums and they desperately need new posts , new ideas,every day, to remain popular.
That means they need new members, continuously. As I type this there are 12 members and 13 guests on this thread.
Your "closed elite forum "will slowly petter out.
The same people are talking to one another . There is no new blood No new stupid questions. And the answers become stale.
I would probably pay to stay a member.
But I think you should retain the status quo.
Kind regards
bobc

 
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  #461 (permalink)
 Tiger45 
San Diego, CA, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: CL, ES
 
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Posts: 309 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 203 given, 422 received

I haven't posted much since I stopped uploading my journal, so requiring a posting limit for downloads would hurt people like me. $50 is such a ridiculously small amount of money for the value here, that to me, it's a no-brainer.

I vote to make all downloads part of the elite section.

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  #462 (permalink)
sunny2010
london
 
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

Mike

So you have got the results. You wanted a vote and I think you got it. Like any democracy - polarised to protect oneself.
The "haves" ( Elite members - already paid $50) vs. "have-nots" ( freebies-non-Elites)
I'm sure you expected nothing more.

If it is about the money ....... for the upkeep of the site & all ......cant crib.

But the "Haves - Elites " - surely are not saying that the "Indicator" maket-all. "The Golden recipe for Success at Trading". Surely - Hope-Not. It seems to smell of "$50 out of pocket Syndrome" A common disease found everywhere.

Can you ever stop ..... peddling indicators. Can you ever stop........ prostitution, drugs, et all. So as the story goes........ Ban It. or Tax it. All is well on the purist side.

It takes one $50 - membership to rape & pillage the larder! Surely banning and taxing will never be the answer.

Alas Mike....... .you have allowed us to go though the motion of democracy.

Now you have got a lot of to do.

have fun.

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  #463 (permalink)
 schuster21 
Bielefeld, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja Trader 7 Zen Fire
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL, GC, TF, 6E, 6B
 
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Posts: 68 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 278 given, 204 received

Hi BigMike,

your Forum is realy top notch and I agree with you 100% and vote for free Downloads
only for EliteMember but dont change the Elite/NonElite-Member Structure like it is right now,
so, free downloading only for Elite is Fair.


Not everybody is a "Poster" and for myself i need a lot of Time to write a post in English Language because im from Germany and can speak and write only School-English.

I think only pay 50$ to get acess including free downloads (everything) from this fantastic High-Quality- Forum and also gets many inputs from all the other Top-Trader that is really fair enough.

Schuster21

 
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  #464 (permalink)
 violetgrace 
Ventura,CA.
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT7
Broker: Mirus
Trading: Love
 
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Posts: 12 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 90 given, 13 received

Hey Mike,

This is actually my first post so first and foremost..Thank You! I am still trying to figure everything out but I appreciate the quality and the standard of excellnce that you provide here. A friend of mine introduced me to this forum and it has been a vital tool in getting started. I chose elite from the get and unfortunately have yet to access all that is offered but am thankfull that it is all here when I am ready!

I respect which ever choice you make!

Thanks again,

newbie!

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  #465 (permalink)
 Pipley 
Fort Wayne, IN
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Trading: FX
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

I hope that this is pertinent to the subject:

- I still have small accounts, but if I can't get my $50 investment back out of all of the knowledge and experience that I gain from futures.io (formerly BMT), I should not be trading! (and I'm not even talking about the indicators) So, my two cents is that mandatory $50 for all is the very minimum that should be donated.

- As a newbie, I have wanted to contribute, but I don't think you want my input (posts) quite yet! It would be like me filling the fifth spot on a pro basketball team. I'm sure they would prefer the original four! I feel that, with my lack of knowledge, I would be much more in the way, than a "contributor".... like the Bball players trying not to step on me. However, some day, I hope to!

- Finally, after years of trying to collect from bad tenants, I have learned that trying to fight moochers is like trying to trade against the trend. That is who/what they are. It might work some of the time, but in the end, you will have put way too much energy into it compared to what you receive back. Eventually, you end up giving up on "I can't let them get away with that!", and accept the loss before you lose even more in time and energy. ie... cut bait!

 
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  #466 (permalink)
 Patrick17 
Bellevue, WA. USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/CQG
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 5 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 186 given, 5 received

I agree Mike, the hard work and valuable download content of futures.io (formerly BMT) should be protected. If Elite membership will achieve this, then it is fair.

 
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  #467 (permalink)
 schuster21 
Bielefeld, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja Trader 7 Zen Fire
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL, GC, TF, 6E, 6B
 
schuster21's Avatar
 
Posts: 68 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 278 given, 204 received

Hi BigMike,

your Forum is realy top notch and I agree with you 100% and vote for free Downloads
only for EliteMember but dont change the Elite/NonElite-Member Structure like it is right now,
so, free downloading only for Elite is Fair.


Not everybody is a "Poster" and for myself i need a lot of Time to write a post in English Language because im from Germany and can speak and write only School-English.

I think only pay 50$ to get acess including free downloads (everything) from this fantastic High-Quality- Forum and also gets many inputs from all the other Top-Trader that is really fair enough.

Schuster21

 
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  #468 (permalink)
 DrGary 
Connecticut, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 3 given, 181 received

Elite downloads would be a help, but will not stop some from distributing content. The webinar I did for futures.io (formerly BMT) was quickly copied and posted on a traders' "file sharing" site, despite the clear and obvious statement that the material was copy righted. It is truely disheartening to see my work - which took years of effort to develop - cavalierly distributed without my or Mike's permission. And this was done by someone who had access to the elite section of this site.

So I would consider going one step further. Require a non-disclosure agreement that states that the trader agrees not to copy and distribute the material in exchange for access to the material. A simple and straightforward agreement.

Will it be enforceable? Probably difficult, and likely not worth the effort. But before dismissing, consider this. A part of the problem lies in the fact that operating off the web makes things seemlingly free. Anonymity, easy access and lack of enforcable rules foster this false impression. Requiring a nondisclosure highlights the fact that the material being accessed is, indeed, not free. Instead, it reminds everyone accessing the material that it reflects a person's (and sometimes a group of persons') work whether it be code, an indicator, webinar or other content and that that person's work and this site archiving that work are to be respected.

I have seen this be effective when traders discussed nondisclosure material on another forum. They reminded one another of the nondisclosure agreement and were, in fact, very careful not to discuss protected information. I like appealing to people's higher character. It dosen't work with everyone, of course, but for most of us it helps to remind us that we do prefer to act with integrity.

Gary

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  #469 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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Posts: 50,078 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,543 given, 98,519 received

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  #470 (permalink)
 Riverend 
Westlake, Oh
 
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sharky View Post
i think bmt started by a few of us guys posting free lessons and indicators,in part to teach ourselves and in part to help other traders get stuff for free indicators that others charge for even though the original idea was not theirs to begin with.i rather leave bmt like it is.some free stuff and some stuff you need to pay for if the author of the indicator or idea wants to post it in elite or not...sharky

Hey Mike,
This is the way I remember how your site was in the beginning. I sure learned a lot. I would like to see it stay the same.
Possibly adding a password to get to the downloads if bots are a problem.

Vic

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  #471 (permalink)
 Bermudan Option 
Chicago, Illinois
 
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How is this not charging for freeware?

Someone created the indicator and then decided to share them with futures.io (formerly BMT)... to give back to a community that has done so much for them. For starters, they might not have even given it to futures.io (formerly BMT) exclusively so if it gets reposted then perhaps that was their intentions, and furthermore I am 99% positive that they didn't post it so that futures.io (formerly BMT) could effectively make money off of their work by tacking it onto the elite members section.

I understand the reasoning behind the Elite Circle. As evidenced by my name tag, I saw value in the service and made the plunge very recently but unless the indicators were submitted prior to the Elite Circle being created, EVERY person who submitted an indicator knew the potential ramifications of uploading their indicator to a public message board and had the option to submit it to the more personable Elite Circle download section.

I have skimmed the thread and hadn't seen many objections so I felt compelled to voice my opinion. The reason this forum is so great is because it is by traders and for traders and creates an environment that makes traders want to give back to the community. However, the community is not traders that post frequently on futures.io (formerly BMT) or that pay $50 on futures.io (formerly BMT). It is people who like to trade and talk about trading.

It makes me cringe knowing that a non-elite member could have submitted an indicator, yet is now no longer able to download his own product until he pays money for it...

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  #472 (permalink)
 kaayla 
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
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I was happy to join and pay $50 for more exclusive access. It is not a great deal of money, and I think it deters certain people who are aggressive and unfriendly with their post to pass on your site because they can be traced through a credit card transaction. I've come across this with other forums (ie., elite trader) where I don't want to post anything because people are so negative and mean spirited.

This is my first post since I am fairly new to trading, but I have received value for the $50 to join already. Although I joined initially for access to some indicators, it turned out that I am not using those indicators, but instead purchased a simple trading system to use instead. I was doing research on the Boomerang System from Indicator Warehouse and found a thread on this site with information and opinions about it and decided the price point was low enough to take the risk in trying it. The opinions expressed were very important for me in my decision making.

I feel limiting access to people willing to pay a reasonable fee is more than fair. I support that choice, as opposed to making people post 50 times. You know that old adage, garbage in, garbage out....better to post when you really have something meaningful to share.

Cheers,
Kaayla

 
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  #473 (permalink)
 Barryc 
Houston, Tx
 
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Mike,
Agreed...we all need to contribute to have a product of value and your website is certainly a product of value.
rgds
barry

 
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  #474 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Bermudan Option View Post
How is this not charging for freeware?

I just went and checked the most recent 10% of all entries in the Downloads section. Out of 50 entries I checked, 49 were submitted by Elite Members, and 1 was submitted by a non-Elite member.

In fact, the overwhelming majority of all content on the site comes from Elite Members (posts/threads/downloads).

I believe these files were shared in the non-Elite section of the Downloads area not because the author wanted to share them in the non-Elite section on purpose, but rather because of the nature of the "split" organization structure of the Downloads section. By default, if it is a NinjaTrader 7 indicator, members prefer to upload it to the NinjaTrader 7 section - as opposed to the Elite section. So I truly believe if it weren't for this, then almost all the sharing would be purposely made available only to Elite Members anyway. I also have to only read a few pages of this thread to get the same impression.

I will take your reply to heart and see how things go during the trial period.

Mike

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  #475 (permalink)
 ron99 
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I haven't read the 48 pages so I don't know if this was suggested previously, but what about making it both ways? You can download if you are an Elite member or if you have 50 posts. Either one would qualify the poster for downloading.

 
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  #476 (permalink)
 William7 
Reno NV
 
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I totally agree with the Elite only downloads. Also raise your Elite price, maybe fifty dollars a year, not a one time fee, I am serious, your price is to low.
William

 
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  #477 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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ron99 View Post
I haven't read the 48 pages so I don't know if this was suggested previously, but what about making it both ways? You can download if you are an Elite member or if you have 50 posts. Either one would qualify the poster for downloading.

Yes, there was never any consideration to limit Elite Members in any way. All Elite Members have 100% access to everything on the site, regardless of number of posts.

The post limit was just one consideration (one that previously failed and I was not likely to repeat) for non-Elite members.

Mike

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  #478 (permalink)
 stibflo 
Elverum, Norway
 
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I also agree with the Elite only downloads. I think it will be easier everyone both to share and find files.

 
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  #479 (permalink)
sunny2010
london
 
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2010
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Mike

It really is a sad day.

$50 for indicators ..... The """"" Elite Members Got Their Way""""".

Like Democracy...... its the presssure groups who "Dictate" democracy. The drug companies......the tobacco group.....the licquor breweries......the *@!""...& now the "Elite ..already paid $ 50 ..resentful of non-payers group"

Membership to futures.io (formerly BMT) ...$ 50 - No problems. Reasons ...Cost / Time / effort / ownership. Capitalist democracy. No problem. Infact very encouraging.

Democracy ....via the back door through a pressure "I resent that I have paid $ 50 ..& I feel like a fool" group...whats the difference.......saddam. mubarack..$50 elite group".

Mike....you should have re-phrased the topic as....." is futures.io (formerly BMT) worth $50 membership" .....you would have got a 100% well ok 99% YES,YES, YES.

But it really is a sad day for the Trading Community that the debate has been hijacked by the group "S**T..I've already paid $50 for futures.io (formerly BMT) ...and those Ar*eho*e non-payers wingers can have a say in this..." group.

As the Group "Queen" sang...... "One more bites the dust....."

I will still sign on to futures.io (formerly BMT)...but with a bitter taste of the $50 elite resentful lobby.

Pls post the $50 elite membership web address.

I think I speak for all the fair minded.


 
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  #480 (permalink)
 wldman 
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Chicago Illinois USA
 
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sunny2010 View Post
Mike

It really is a sad day.

$50 for indicators ..... The """"" Elite Members Got Their Way""""".

Like Democracy...... its the presssure groups who "Dictate" democracy. The drug companies......the tobacco group.....the licquor breweries......the *@!""...& now the "Elite ..already paid $ 50 ..resentful of non-payers group"

Membership to futures.io (formerly BMT) ...$ 50 - No problems. Reasons ...Cost / Time / effort / ownership. Capitalist democracy. No problem. Infact very encouraging.

Democracy ....via the back door through a pressure "I resent that I have paid $ 50 ..& I feel like a fool" group...whats the difference.......saddam. mubarack..$50 elite group".

Mike....you should have re-phrased the topic as....." is futures.io (formerly BMT) worth $50 membership" .....you would have got a 100% well ok 99% YES,YES, YES.

But it really is a sad day for the Trading Community that the debate has been hijacked by the group "S**T..I've already paid $50 for futures.io (formerly BMT) ...and those Ar*eho*e non-payers wingers can have a say in this..." group.

As the Group "Queen" sang...... "One more bites the dust....."

I will still sign on to futures.io (formerly BMT)...but with a bitter taste of the $50 elite resentful lobby.

Pls post the $50 elite membership web address.

I think I speak for all the fair minded.


and enjoy the view...we might not pass this way again.

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  #481 (permalink)
sunny2010
london
 
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2010
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wldman

as expected ...a last lobby from the "group".

p.s. I would not like to meet you on a dark night.......with those eyes of yours.

supports my argument

good luck to you.........on a dark night

 
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  #482 (permalink)
 Anagami 
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Cancun, Mexico
 
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Elite only downloads, yes.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
 
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  #483 (permalink)
 Traderde 
overland park, ks
 
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Mike, happy to pay the $50 for access as elite member. I have not posted but I am not computer programmer and don't know enough to develop indicators. I am trying to put together a methodology that is simple and straight forward and can be managed. In that effort I have tested and now us a number of indicators that I found on futures.io (formerly BMT) in the elite section. It would seem to me that an investment of $50 to be an elite member and then have access to all downloads would be a resonable approach. I would not like to see the forum get to the point that many of the contributors such a "Fat Tail" and "TMFT" stopped contributing their expertice. I have be en remiss in thanking bother of those individuals as I have found there indicators to be of great value (Way beyound $50).

So big Thank You to futures.io (formerly BMT) and all contributors.

 
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  #484 (permalink)
 kashbg 
London
 
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Yes, I will support Elite only downloads. As Big Mike pointed out this would filter the spamers and those who join just for the downloads. There are a lot of so called trader's forums that ironically have very few real traders participating. The majority of them being just time wasters and software/indicator collector addicts.

"The only thing to do when a man is wrong is to be right by ceasing to be wrong." - Edwin Lefevre -
 
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  #485 (permalink)
 rickr 
Waynesville, NC USA
 
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All BigMike All The Way ! ! !

Have only ONE membership type ! ! ! You are either a "BM Member" or you are not ! In order to be a "BM Member", your initiation fee is $ xx.00. If you desire to increase membership, I dont think Trials are even necessary . . . I have personally referred at least 10 traders to the site, which have resulted in 7 Elite members, that I know of . . . I doubt that I am the only one here who has referred new Elite members. I am not a big poster, at this time, I don't think I have anything to say that would add to anyone's bottom line, so why waste their time? Lets get rid of this split personality that exist within the current structure of futures.io (formerly BMT).

Ciao, Rick

btw: this has to be biggest and fastest response to any thread ever at futures.io (formerly BMT) ?

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  #486 (permalink)
 wldman 
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sunny2010 View Post
wldman

as expected ...a last lobby from the "group".

p.s. I would not like to meet you on a dark night.......with those eyes of yours.

supports my argument

good luck to you.........on a dark night

Welcome to The islands have a nice day.

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  #487 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sunny2010 View Post
Mike

It really is a sad day.

$50 for indicators ..... The """"" Elite Members Got Their Way""""".

Like Democracy...... its the presssure groups who "Dictate" democracy. The drug companies......the tobacco group.....the licquor breweries......the *@!""...& now the "Elite ..already paid $ 50 ..resentful of non-payers group"

Membership to futures.io (formerly BMT) ...$ 50 - No problems. Reasons ...Cost / Time / effort / ownership. Capitalist democracy. No problem. Infact very encouraging.

Democracy ....via the back door through a pressure "I resent that I have paid $ 50 ..& I feel like a fool" group...whats the difference.......saddam. mubarack..$50 elite group".

Mike....you should have re-phrased the topic as....." is futures.io (formerly BMT) worth $50 membership" .....you would have got a 100% well ok 99% YES,YES, YES.

But it really is a sad day for the Trading Community that the debate has been hijacked by the group "S**T..I've already paid $50 for futures.io (formerly BMT) ...and those Ar*eho*e non-payers wingers can have a say in this..." group.

As the Group "Queen" sang...... "One more bites the dust....."

I will still sign on to futures.io (formerly BMT)...but with a bitter taste of the $50 elite resentful lobby.

Pls post the $50 elite membership web address.

I think I speak for all the fair minded.


Hi,

Your remarks are way off base. I do not even want you to become an Elite Member with this type of negative attitude. In fact, I don't even want you on the forum with this type of attitude. So I am asking you to leave and not come back.

Mike

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  #488 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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wldman View Post
Mike, I'll gladly remove this

Yes, remove it. Rude behavior is not tolerated for any reason. Don't stoop to his level.

Mike

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  #489 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
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not to be judged for the outburst. I apologize for a response that engages in an effort to defend. Last thing I want is to be seperated from this valuable community. Please don't ban me Mike. DB

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  #490 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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With regards to TMFT, I fear that something may have happened to his health. I don't want to get too off-topic, but he has not responded to my PM's or logged in, and it was all very abrupt. We all know he had some health conditions. I hope he is simply taking a break from trading, and that I am wrong. I miss his humor

Mike

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  #491 (permalink)
 NJAMC 
Atkinson, NH USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Big Mike View Post
All,

I am contemplating a major / drastic change to the behavior of all downloads on the site. The change would be to make all downloads Elite Only. I mean all downloads, in posts, threads, downloads section, everywhere globally. The only exclusion would be images (screen shots), but all other file types would be available only to Elite Members.

I have mixed feelings on this, so wanted to get some feedback from the users to consider as well before making any decisions. The main reason for the desire to change is to protect the work and to protect the value of the community.

Right now, too many "bots" are downloading our indicators and posting them on other sites as their own. Right now, too many real people register "fake" accounts because they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to type in correct info when they register, all because all they want is to download something and likely never participate further in the site.

Big Mike,

I certainly don't know the entire story behind the desire to restrict downloads to Elite Members. You may want to consider all uploads Elite downloads only until you release some to more of th "Public Domain". I think it was some of the open downloads that convinced me that futures.io (formerly BMT) was a good investment and became an Elite Member. Not sure I would have jumped into an Elite membership without some outside indication of the quality of the downloads.

As for the non-Elite contributors, I am sure you may be able to work something out with them as a Free or discounted upgrade to Elite status based upon their contributions.

Just my 2 cents... I do think you need to offer something for free, more than just the treads, or you new memberships may drop as well...

Good luck,

Nil per os
-NJAMC [Generic Programmer]

LOM WIKI: NT-Local-Order-Manager-LOM-Guide
Artificial Bee Colony Optimization
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  #492 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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wldman View Post
Please don't ban me Mike

I'm not going to ban you. Just remove your other post as it was quite rude.

People all too often think I am "ban happy". It is not true. They make assumptions when they have very little info to go on. They see banned user names in the member list or "Who's online" section. 99% of these are spammers/spam bots.

The remaining 1% of legit users that get banned may make 1,000 very nice posts, receive a large number of thanks, and then on their 1,001st, 1,002nd 1,003rd and 1,004th post they completely "lose it" for who knows what reason. In some cases, those later posts are removed (depending on their content) because they violate our policies. The user is then banned after receiving warnings and ignoring them. So some users rush to judgment over why a user was banned, when they in fact have zero way of knowing the real reason. Only the staff/moderators/myself would know as only we can see all the messages or warnings, replies to our warnings, etc. I ask that you trust our judgment. If you don't trust our judgment, then perhaps you should not be here.

In particular, if you start calling me names, I'm going to ask you to leave or kick you out. futures.io (formerly BMT) is my home, and I don't know of anyone who would allow someone to remain in their home who is being rude towards their host.

We are now sufficiently off-topic...

Mike

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  #493 (permalink)
Nevi
phoenix az
 
 
Posts: 4 since Aug 2011
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As a new (non elite) member since late last week,
I didnt sign up to pay for membership because the internet is full of scammers trying to get money, so obviously everything has to be on a free trial basis or no way.
But now a change has occurred, before it was, Is the elite section worth $50?
Now its, Are the indicators worth $50?


I think you still need to have some free downloads on the site to attract interest.
Nevi

 
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  #494 (permalink)
 MrDonQui 
Switzerland
 
Experience: Beginner
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Posts: 2 since Aug 2009
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Hello Mike,
For now, I want to thank you for this excellent site for the
Trading on learning!
I also belong to the traders who posts something rare. It is because
the language. The English text, I can well understand it yourself
I can not write well enough.
Now Mike, there is a central problem from the Internet, everything is copied,
Music, text, work, ideas and everything everywhere.
But how should you write that it is now at our trading site is abuse, and people just download on the page, the exploit will not tolerate it!
I am therefore sure that your proposed barriers installed
are, for the protection and satisfaction of honest traders community.
Long live the Big Mike Trading!
Many greetings
MrDonQui

 
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  #495 (permalink)
 mrmuggins 
manchester, england
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 288 since Apr 2011
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I have been a non-elite member for a few months now and have downloaded several indicators, one of which is used in my trading ideas. So I am grateful for futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I am in 2 minds regarding only allowing Elte members to download indicators. On the one hand, I agree that no one should download any indicators with the intention of selling them. On the other hand I think having a free download area helps newbies like myself. But overall I think that only Elite members should be able to download indicators and for this reason, I have subscribed to be an Elite member as $50 is a small price to pay for such a good forum. So thanks Big Mike and all the programmers that have unselfishly added their indicators to this forum.

Regards,

Dudley

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  #496 (permalink)
sunny2010
london
 
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2010
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Big Mike View Post
Hi,

Your remarks are way off base. I do not even want you to become an Elite Member with this type of negative attitude. In fact, I don't even want you on the forum with this type of attitude. So I am asking you to leave and not come back.

Mike


Mike

Thanks...... the world is a closed group.

Sad but true. Conformity is the rule.

maybe I should have said....." Yes I support the Elite Only Rule"

Its your site. So you can say " So I am asking you to leave and not come back."

Good luck

 
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  #497 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
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mrmuggins View Post
I have been a non-elite member for a few months now and have downloaded several indicators, one of which is used in my trading ideas. So I am grateful for futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I am in 2 minds regarding only allowing Elte members to download indicators. On the one hand, I agree that no one should download any indicators with the intention of selling them. On the other hand I think having a free download area helps newbies like myself. But overall I think that only Elite members should be able to download indicators and for this reason, I have subscribed to be an Elite member as $50 is a small price to pay for such a good forum. So thanks Big Mike and all the programmers that have unselfishly added their indicators to this forum.

Regards,

Dudley

to do anything I can to help you. Not that my help is needed, wanted or even valuable to you...the point is I appreciate that which you appreciate. thank you .

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  #498 (permalink)
 Twiddle 
Sydney, Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Mirus
Trading: FDAX
 
Posts: 139 since May 2010
Thanks: 150 given, 94 received

Wow. I am dissaponted, but not surprised at how ungrateful and cheap people are.

This forum is a wealth of knowledge, for anyone serious about making their trading work.

Perhaps it underscores why so many people fail at trading.... They want a magic indicator to turn green when they should buy, and red when they should sell. Instead of putting in the research, mastering the markets and developing their own edge. On top of that, they want it given to them for free and without any effort on their part.

Thanks for all your hard work Mike. It must be frustrating dealing with these types...

 
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  #499 (permalink)
 deercreek 
Garden Valley, ID
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Mirus/ZenFire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 11 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 6 given, 3 received

Mike,

First off, I would like to extend my appreciation and gratitude to you and everyone who contributes to the Forum because it is my number one "go-to" place. Sure, I haven't contributed much post wise, but I felt I could at least contribute by becoming an "Elite member". As an older 'duffer" most of you folks just make my head spin by the skill,talent and knowledge you so willingly share and demonstrate. I KNOW I certainly would not be where I am in my trading journey without having had the access to futures.io (formerly BMT)F.
In my meager 9 years of involvement with this trading journey, this forum is No. 1 with me of ALL the other stuff I've looked at, on-line and off.
So, bottom line, please do what ever it takes it keep Big Mikes first class, helpful, friendly and available.
With much Gratitude
Deercreek

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  #500 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
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Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,859 received

Echo the gratitude for Mike and all the others who contribute in the forums. Thanks Mike.

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futures io Trading Community Feedback and Announcements > Elite only for ALL downloads?


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