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Elite only for ALL downloads?

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  #301 (permalink)
 brwdbill 
Brownwood, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: TF
 
Posts: 2 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 487 given, 1 received

I am brand new by only a couple months. Early on, I saw the value of the Elite Status and paid the $50 willingly. Since then, I've gained much more than $50 in education. I personally wished I had found this site 2 years ago. I think the money spent for Elite Status is some of the best investment in my trading education to date. I am one who has never posted until now and part of that reason is I've tried to read as much as possible and watch webinars to expand my learning curve all the while gaining more screen time in real life trading.

 
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  #302 (permalink)
Dracozny
lebanon oregon
 
 
Posts: 6 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

restricting yourself to a paysite only discourages people from investing their time especially money. trading can be costly enough, I dont mind if you do something like TRO where he posts some indicators as free and others as donation only. if you go as far as restricting most of the board quite frankly I would see no point in staying, I have found some info here useful. mostly in deciding against every commercial platform to date since none meet my needs.

good luck to you whatever your choice.

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  #303 (permalink)
 rockinomo 
Gold Coast Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: IB, Ninja Trader
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Posts: 1 since Jan 2011
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Big Mike View Post
All,

Anyway, so there it is. Some of my many thoughts on the matter. Please share yours. I'm hoping to get a good mix of replies from both Elite Members and non-Elite Members.

Mike

Hi Mike

I am a passive futures.io (formerly BMT) user. I do a lot of reading though not a lot of contributing. For this I at least thought I should pay the amount to be an Elite member and would it would make sense to me that anyone on this site who wants to access files become an Elite or paid member.

The contributed value of what is created here at futures.io (formerly BMT) is profound. I am sure we all know that it is people that make the trading/investing work and not any given system. I personally feel that if there are a minimum number of posts to be made, there would larger quantity of information and far less quality. It would however filter the committed from the uncommitted.

I am a full time EOD swing trader on US stocks looking at price volume spread action and use different volume indicators to read the market sentiment all which have come from futures.io (formerly BMT) to save me outsourcing programming. I also lead a team of FX day traders in an investment company and reference people to futures.io (formerly BMT) to find information because it is so resourceful. This may be the exact thing you are trying to reduce?

I will support your decision either way. I just wanted to give you my perspective of how I use and promote futures.io (formerly BMT) currently.

Regards

Omar

 
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  #304 (permalink)
 gtradz 
Atlanta, GA/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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I hardly ever post, because as many say, I don't feel I have too much to offer. However, the indicator downloads and elite threads are valuable, and that is why I became an elite member early on. Protect the integrity of the site Mike, you have my vote!

 
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  #305 (permalink)
 dougl1965 
OFallon, MO
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Infinity/ CQG
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 29 since Feb 2011
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I'd keep some info for the non-paying people. Allow screenshots, a few basic webinars, etc. Then other privileges, all downloads, etc for the elite members. Something to keep in mind...not everybody is a "poster". My time is limited because i work full-time. I read a lot when topics interest me; download indicators that i like to try, etc.
dougl

 
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  #306 (permalink)
 grandad58 
MA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: PFG Best/PFG
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Posts: 16 since Jun 2009
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Mike, it's a sad situation when people 'steal' the work of dedicated members and use or pass it on as their own...I can see elite only status to access downloads. The other ideas would hurt me and others who don't do a lot of input because we can't write programs or don't have a method that is making money for us. When your fighting to learn and make a profit, it's tough; and this place is a blessing to everyone that is trying to make it trading, and when possible, pay back to everyone else. Elite status does seem like the logical solution. Just my 2c...

 
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  #307 (permalink)
 jwhtrades 
woodstock, ga
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 163 since Feb 2011
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Mike, I agree with your suggestion to make all downloads for Elite Members only. The value of this forum is without question the greatest value that I've come across in my short time trading. Not only are the members generous of their time and advice but the indicators are extremely valuable.

 
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  #308 (permalink)
 fasttraxs 
Danville, California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: ES Currency furtures
 
Posts: 69 since Sep 2010
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I hardly ever post, as many have said, I don't feel I have too much to offer at this time. However, the indicator downloads and elite threads are very valuable, and that is why I became an elite member.. Make the site elite only if you think it will help. The small fee that you charge to be an elite member is nothing compared to the thousands paid out to learn trading or how not to trade. Protect your site as you think best, you have my vote whatever you decide!

 
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  #309 (permalink)
jenndiggity
Santa Barbara, CA
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2011
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I think by making them only Elite, it helps maintain the integrity and reputation of the website. It's a shame that freeloaders have to ruin it for the rest of us.

 
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  #310 (permalink)
xingalaxy
Singapore
 
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2011
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Mike, I suggest to differentiate the indicators into "chargeable" and "free" categories. The contributor will have to decide where to place his/her indicator for member to download. A elite member should be given an incentive, e.g. getting a better price for chargeable indicators than someone who is non elite member.

 
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  #311 (permalink)
 ASCAR 
Tweed Heads NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader Metatrader
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Posts: 1 since Sep 2010
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No matter what you do you wont stop people from ripping off ideas , whether it be thru charging more or restricting the site to major contributors . They will pay more or just lodge dodgy replies or threads. I am a struggling trader who has found your site invaluable for ideas and sharing knowledge. Unfortunately I am not a programmer and struggle with that side of things. At 62 and struggling with health issues after retirement I have often had to refer to your site for information. Unfortunately there i s nothing I could post that is equal to the quality on your site. Restrict it to Elite members only but dont cut out a lot of struggling traders like myself who can benefit them from the shared knowledge and help them on the road to financial stability.

Ascar

 
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  #312 (permalink)
 andrewtrader 
Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MBT DesktopPro, Multicharts,NinjaTrader
Broker: MBT,CQG/AMP
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 57 since May 2011
Thanks: 43 given, 31 received

I have two killer questions for all those who passionately advocate downloads for Elite only:

1. Have you asked all those people who contributed code to some project if they want their code to be locked up? You are deciding upon someone you have no authority upon.

2. So, somebody or some group of people made indicator and now it's in paid only Elite section. That means work by members but monetary reward to website?.. How fair is that? What if many people contributed to final indicator? How would you account share percentage they all should get? Who will do that? How much time that will take?

Don't you think that will open pandora's box with legal and monetary issues, and break down now collaborative futures.io (formerly BMT) community?

 
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  #313 (permalink)
 FulcrumTrader 
Austin, TX & Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
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Mike,


I tend to be in the some items free and others in Elite Section only crowd. Indicator downloads I can see placed somewhere in the the Elite section, with basic chart screen shots or quick individual trader screencasting vids in free areas. You want to maintain some valuable free content to attract members but have some control of premium content in a "pay to play" section.

 
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  #314 (permalink)
 ephi 
Pittsburgh
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7
Broker: PFG
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 1 since Sep 2011

Mike,..this will be my brand new post,.and also a new member to the forum, I would like to say that, I have spent thousands on indicators and also on on trading educations but honestly, I have learned more in this forum all for free reading from other peoples experience and I wish I have found this forum a year or so earlier before I spent my big bucks on indicators etc which never worked and wiping out my trading account,.lol...I will gladly upgrade my account to elite and support your move on this regards,..thanks for the great work and keep it up please for the sake of traders like myself!!!

Ephi

 
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  #315 (permalink)
 andrewtrader 
Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MBT DesktopPro, Multicharts,NinjaTrader
Broker: MBT,CQG/AMP
Trading: Forex
 
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xingalaxy View Post
Mike, I suggest to differentiate the indicators into "chargeable" and "free" categories. The contributor will have to decide where to place his/her indicator for member to download. A elite member should be given an incentive, e.g. getting a better price for chargeable indicators than someone who is non elite member.

what makes futures.io (formerly BMT) a indicator shop. How long will it take for every indicator to appear in "chargeable" section just because of opportunity?

 
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  #316 (permalink)
yunakhan1
ny ny
 
 
Posts: 4 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 10 given, 0 received

Hi Mike. In my opinions if you will move downloads to elite members area only you will loose about 80% of your auditory. If you do search on internet you will find many usefull NT indicators on foreign sites which are free and have better explanations. I f you want to keep downloads to elite members only thats fine. Im in this business 8 years and no indicators will make you better trader but you. Market is 99% about crowd react in different stage of market and only 1% is technical. No matter which best indicators you have if you dont have discipline and patience you will loose. NO indicators will give you the picture why market goes up or down why its gap or else. In my opinion your expereince is best indicator.

 
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  #317 (permalink)
 GT22 
Currently Inactive
 
 
Posts: 25 since Aug 2011

Wow, I am impressed by the loyalty displayed in this thread!

Is it true that people are willing to pay up to $2,000 for indicators?

I need to look into this. I have 2 or 3 highly marketable indicators that I do not use.

Note: Highly marketable, not highly profitable!

 
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  #318 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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  #319 (permalink)
 Rick Reynolds 
New haven, Ct
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 5 since Jun 2011
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Hey Mike,
I think its a great idea. If anyone is serious about trading than a small subscription fee is nothing in the big picture. We all know nothing is FREE in life, so pay your way or move on.
Thanks again for a great site,
Rick R.

 
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  #320 (permalink)
 rlynch 
Denver
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: spy
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received

I am a relative newcomer to futures.io (formerly BMT), followed several threads, downloaded indicators, etc. This my first post as I have very little to contibute and can't be of much help to most futures.io (formerly BMT) folks - perhaps someday that will change. However, futures.io (formerly BMT) has been very helpful to me and I much appreciate the threads, downloads.....

Seems reasonable (and I support) to restrict downloads or even charge $$ for them to support the forum. However, this is unlikely to reduce or stop the 'profiteering'

Might also consider an increase to the price of elite membership.

Thanks to Mike and forum contributors for the continuing hard work to keep this forum going.

my 2 cents.

 
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  #321 (permalink)
 eman 
Galveston ,TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Zaner
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 386 since Mar 2010
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yes, i agree with restricting downloads to elite.

others have already said (more eloquently than i) all of the reasons i could think of to concur with this change.

cheers,
-e

 
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  #322 (permalink)
 Treggs 
Working on my LCD tan
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 127 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 25 given, 51 received

I typed out a big long post on the benefits I have had from futures.io (formerly BMT) and your original blog and how you have to be careful with where money goes (based on my bad experiences with a local Australian forum) and then I had an idea.

Why not open up the site threads completely to allow free discussion but make the following changes.

- Elite members are highlighted as financial contributors and have access to some of the nicer parts of the site (like webinars, competitions)

- Allow access to all indicators but give the contributor the choice to have make it free or "donate to download". Also add a "rate the indicator" so those contemplating a non free indicator can see whether it was worth the money. I'm thinking along the lines of the Android marketplace or itunes.

Those that make big coding contributions can get paid and the site still receives some revenue towards running costs and they are separate. Keeps it all simple and allows everyone to read all the posts.

 
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  #323 (permalink)
 learning0101 
Houston, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader,TOS,Etrade,St
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Trading: stocks,options,futures,forex
 
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Posts: 269 since Aug 2011
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Hi Mike and all,
I am new to forum and trading, head still spinning. What a GREAT place you have created here Mike. Hope to be able to contribute someday. Whatever you decide needs to be done will be respected by me. It's all over my head right now.

 
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  #324 (permalink)
kuro
Redlands CA
 
 
Posts: 14 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received

I don't post much ( if at all ) I think because lately more and more of an elite trader feel has been creeping here. I think that comes as the site gets more popular. IMHO , most I think elite members make higher quality posts.


I think you should restrict it to elite only, and keep the quality up on the site..

 
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  #325 (permalink)
kaywai
singapore
 
 
Posts: 131 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 11 given, 7 received

Hi Mike,

Just my 2 cents...The indicators I've downloaded are mainly to go through the code to help me in scripting my own indicators. As you know and may possibly remember, some of my threads have been closed over discussions of indicators that are copyrighted.

The methods of how an indicator can be coded is what interest me. I have no commercial use for them nor had any intention to do so.

I am happy to discuss indicators that I am familiar with but I am no coding expert. Hence you will not see me contribute where coding matters are concerned. I've been working my way over the past 2 years, scouring through other indicators to help me build my own indicator, which unfortunately is still not completed. Some contributors to this forum have been kind to help code a majority of the indicator or to put me in the right direction. And that's what I like about this forum. Unfortunately I can't discuss the indicators anymore as I have been warned.

I am also curious why some would pay for indicators that are already available free on your forum. All one needs to do is google it and the results are there. The exception being the indicators in the elite section which is already out of bounds. I have googled for example kase bars, and right at the top or close to the top of the page is your forum! Unfortunately or fortunately, it is part of the elite section!!! One needs to realise that this is THE PLACE for indicators and for help to code indicators.

Do what you think is necessary. You have my support. I have no objections.

Kay Wai

 
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  #326 (permalink)
nicko
Boston USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Keep it free, no conditions.

Run more ads on ur pages if u need more income. You will make more money this way than through memberships in the long run. As u develop ur income by marketing through ads, u will develop the revenue to reimburse all elite users their membership fee. This is a step in the right direction, a way to gain integrity and credibility and profitability.

It is not plausible to me that u need to protect the hard work of others nor ur own 'hard work', nor the need to protect ur own intellectual property.

Ur success will be determined by the quality of the service u provide, which may or may not be justified by the elite membership fee: personally i have no interest in paying for ur services.

The extent to which u provide useful trading tools to the trading community u will personally benefit and empower those around u. Deriving your revenue primarily from selling membership for education probably does not give u credibility I am looking for. Running ads is just fine and a perfectly legitimate source of income. Ur excuses about y u want to protect ur information make no sense at all to me.

The main and most legitimate way that the internet operates is by freely marketing, branding and promoting products and services. A good product and service will ALWAYS sell itself. U do not need to fend of the copycats. Either u get it right and develop the trust, loyalty and support of the community or not. Time will tell.

Ur site has some useful information and is a resource. U should be seeking ways to open ur service and remove all restrictions rather than wasting time trying to protect anything. There is nothing to protect. There is a plethora of free information on the net and u r not even a drop in the bucket. U r only showing weakness in the eyes of the public by sending out emails such as the one i just received. Keep ur gloves up and tell ppl positive things and find ways of value adding ur services.

One free way u can improve the quality of ur patronage is to require all members to regularly fill out brief trading questionnaires. Publish the results on ur homepage. It would be a very useful educational tool for traders to c how other traders think about a wide range of issues. Filling out a brief questionnaire (with radio button answers) would value-add ur site and sort out who is really interested in ur site.

gl

 
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  #327 (permalink)
TimPhila
Philadelphia USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jul 2011
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I don't nessesarly think thats its fair to the participants that posted there code to the open forum with the intention to help fellow traders. If they posted the indicator / straegy, it was meant to be given out, or they would have never posted it. Let face it, If an indicator is confidential, or purchased, they are not going to post it anyway.
As for indicators created by Big Mike, yes since the site has the intellectual property rights of the code it posts, they have the right to restrict their own code.

The forum was set up as an open forum, and should stay open. Give the members the option to allow an open or restricted download.

 
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  #328 (permalink)
 fxwealth88 
new york, new york
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: e signal
Trading: forex
 
Posts: 46 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 17 given, 57 received

hi mike,
i haven't posted much lately, not because of the lack of interest but because there was a lot going in my life.

i do want to give you my support in whatever you decide to do later for the future of futures.io (formerly BMT).

the reason i signed up with futures.io (formerly BMT) is because of your integrity. i could see that you were serious and dedicated to provide a trader community and forum where like minded people gather together to learn from each other.

i have zero knowledge in programming but i was able to use some of the indicators posted by the experts to better my trading. so for people like us, this is a great place to be.

on the other hand, if i am the expert contributing my indicators to the community with the hope that it will be used wisely (maybe get a nice "thank you") and then some weasel get it sold to others for money, then i will be hopping mad. it's as though they've been robbed of their intellectual property.

no easy solution here. and i honestly don't have an answer.

cheers,
fxwealth

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  #329 (permalink)
 JohnPS 
Dewitt Mi
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp/CQG and Infinity
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 52 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 52 given, 18 received

Elite downloads only, I agree. But, the structure of this site "as is" is remarkable in the amount of real value on the free end of it, this was your original idea, it is still a great idea and it is becoming a greater site as time goes on as it expands and the depth of knowledge grows deeper (Elite side). Clapping for futures.io (formerly BMT)!

On many sites of all sorts (not trading) there are text boxes with funky characters that have to be filled out each time you send data, email, purchase something, request support. This is a tool to stop BOTS. There may be other tools to stop this actiivity.

Mike, have you contacted other people at you level that have forums of this caliber to ask how they might set up protections and defenses to stop this problem?

Possibly a high level IT administrator heavily educated and experienced in internet security would shed some light and offer solutions.

Have you talked to the company who hosts this site, they might have people on their staff that can help.

Some of the management staff at YouTube might have valuable insight - they deal with millions of people.

Mike, I look forward to you taking this to the next level,
Thanks for all you do,
John

 
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  #330 (permalink)
jhwyo
Cheyenne, WY
 
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I understand and respect your position on this issue. As someone who is somewhat new to trading, I get far more out of this site than I feel I can contribute. If it becomes necessary to sign up to be an elite member, then it's up to me (and others like me) to decide what I want to do. Thanks for the hard work you and the others put into this website.

 
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  #331 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

I am only going to say that it is your site, and in the end you should do what makes you happy.. second, I am not sure what is so secret or special about the elite section, I mean.. I contributed $$$ mainly because I felt it was the right thing to do, but not really for the "indicators"... there really isnt anything novel other than Gomi stuff... that in itself is worth something IMO... but the rest, just noise and different ways to see the same data for the most part. IMO as well, when someone posts code on this site, they are in fact reliquishing their intelectual property rights, so there should be no expectation to the contrary.

It all comes down to this.... what do you feel that you want to do? whatever that is, just do it and move on...

 
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  #332 (permalink)
 kayaker 
Crivitz Wisconsin USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 26 since Aug 2010
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I don't use indicators but, my vote is for the elite, Thanks for all your hard work Mike

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  #333 (permalink)
oremech
Utah
 
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 25 given, 0 received

I like to read and learn. I believe the people who have shared their code did so to share. I like it here but do I have to post to enjoy this site? Do what you will but I think you will push many others away. Thank you Bob for all you do I'm very greatful.

 
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  #334 (permalink)
 cdk1212 
Calgary, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: AMP - CQG
Trading: 6E, 6J, ES & TF
 
Posts: 5 since May 2011
Thanks: 3 given, 1 received

Once you start to exclude people & then members & then the membership will drop. (or should)
The members that share their tips & tricks do so to help the community and those that it is what makes this forum different from all the others out there.

go ahead - want to lose members?

 
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  #335 (permalink)
Antisyzygy
Denver, Colorado, USA
 
 
Posts: 36 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 17 received

Generally, someone who is serious about trading and has the means to even be capable of it can pay 50 bucks to access content. Its an unfortunate series of events that some people have no principals and steal content for their own scam-websites. It makes it easier for these assholes that run these illicit enterprises to gain credibility that they don't deserve. This being the case, I see no reason why it should be totally free to download indicators in light of what it actually prevents. A scam-artist will think twice before they actually pay for access. Furthermore, at least it makes a potential trader contemplate whether or not they are devoted enough to spend the money on access and to "put-their-money-where-their-mouth-is" so to speak. Your member fees are lower than other forums (such as Forex-TSD), and you guys tend to be more helpful and knowledgeable. I'm for it, and I will prove it by paying for it.

 
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  #336 (permalink)
 samiotis 
Gilroy california USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS, MT
Broker: TDAmeritrade Ninja Trader, TastyWorks, Robinhood
Trading: Options, MES
 
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nicko View Post
Keep it free, no conditions.

Run more ads on ur pages if u need more income. You will make more money this way than through memberships in the long run. As u develop ur income by marketing through ads, u will develop the revenue to reimburse all elite users their membership fee. This is a step in the right direction, a way to gain integrity and credibility and profitability.

It is not plausible to me that u need to protect the hard work of others nor ur own 'hard work', nor the need to protect ur own intellectual property.

Ur success will be determined by the quality of the service u provide, which may or may not be justified by the elite membership fee: personally i have no interest in paying for ur services.

The extent to which u provide useful trading tools to the trading community u will personally benefit and empower those around u. Deriving your revenue primarily from selling membership for education probably does not give u credibility I am looking for. Running ads is just fine and a perfectly legitimate source of income. Ur excuses about y u want to protect ur information make no sense at all to me.

The main and most legitimate way that the internet operates is by freely marketing, branding and promoting products and services. A good product and service will ALWAYS sell itself. U do not need to fend of the copycats. Either u get it right and develop the trust, loyalty and support of the community or not. Time will tell.

Ur site has some useful information and is a resource. U should be seeking ways to open ur service and remove all restrictions rather than wasting time trying to protect anything. There is nothing to protect. There is a plethora of free information on the net and u r not even a drop in the bucket. U r only showing weakness in the eyes of the public by sending out emails such as the one i just received. Keep ur gloves up and tell ppl positive things and find ways of value adding ur services.

One free way u can improve the quality of ur patronage is to require all members to regularly fill out brief trading questionnaires. Publish the results on ur homepage. It would be a very useful educational tool for traders to c how other traders think about a wide range of issues. Filling out a brief questionnaire (with radio button answers) would value-add ur site and sort out who is really interested in ur site.

gl


=============

Big Mike I must say nicko is right and to the point. BTW when it comes to business you don't ask your customers what they wont you’re never going to make your decision by what we won’t. But since you ask my opinion place a “donate” button because I am the kind of internet user that likes free staff but if I’ am helped somewhere I always donate something.

Follow me on Twitter
 
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  #337 (permalink)
 tiger70 
New Orleans, LA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, eSignal and TOS
Trading: Options
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I haven't posted because I haven't felt as if I know enough to ask an intelligent question or to contribute. I joined to learn. Although I have not had the opportunity to spend as much time as I would like on this site, I do like it over others primarily because the members spend their time with constructive comments rather than insulting / abusive comments I've seen elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with being required to be Elite to download any files (I did pay to be an Elite member). And I'm afraid any posting requirement would result in comments / questions that are duplicative of others and not well thought out.

Thanks to you Bob for all the good work, and to all the members for contributing to a quality site.

Dennis

 
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  #338 (permalink)
Antisyzygy
Denver, Colorado, USA
 
 
Posts: 36 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 17 received


samiotis View Post
=============

Big Mike I must say nicko is right and to the point. BTW when it comes to business you don't ask your customers what they wont you’re never going to make your decision by what we won’t. But since you ask my opinion place a “donate” button because I am the kind of internet user that likes free staff but if I’ am helped somewhere I always donate something.

Nicko's post is almost unreadable. They don't sell anything here, as most of it is free. Since many unscrupulous people exist who take credit for others efforts, I believe they should limit access some way. The easiest way to do so is to charge some subscription fee. You probably bought a 50 dollar meal last week. Even poor people can afford a 50 dollar meal once a month or so, I know this as I have been there before I got myself an education and good job. 50 bucks for a lifetime membership is nothing when you consider the fact that you can just not eat out once or twice this month.

 
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  #339 (permalink)
 zimzam 
Los Gatos, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Optimus/Rithmic, Kinetick
Trading: CL, NQ, GC, 6E
 
Posts: 15 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Big Mike - Thanks for all your hard work with this site - it is invaluable for many of us. I'm surprised it took so long for this to become a problem.

I believe Elite-only download is a viable solution and even a higher priced Elite would not upset me. The idea that all Net-based information should be free is self serving BS and your members know that.

You're doing the right thing polling the membership but I recommend you give special weight to the thoughts of the major contributors like Fat Tails et al.

Looking forward to learning more every day.

 
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  #340 (permalink)
 Ron Schnee 
Fort McMurray, AB, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8 EOD,
Broker: QT
Trading: currencies, indexes, CL
 
Posts: 18 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 8 received

My vote; make it Elite only downloads files
In other words, make it a paid for site in terms of access to the downloads
Some will definitely not like it but you have good reasons.
Make the reasons known and rename Elite to Download Priviledge.
The post minimum will be onerous to some of us definitely, so the cash trade is best.

 
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  #341 (permalink)
 typer77 
Hong Kong
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, Asian Equity futures
 
Posts: 32 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 7 given, 9 received


trdr View Post
haven't read all the posts in this thread but as far as I'm concerned if you start
restricting downloads more than you already do aka the 'elite' section you can
forget about me remaining a member

if you want money get some advertisers

you're sounding like one of those Chinese sites that requires either money or
contributions before a member can go up a level in order to download something

in fact I think I'll piss off now

Damn! I get upset when I see this comment. To start with, this is the trading site I respect a lot; Traders trying to help other traders and have been sharing their view and codes without conditions. the 50 dollars is merely a contribution to keep the site running.

I don't think the Elite only is a good way to separate downloads permanently; however, i do think it is a start..... eventually move into who has contribution post number and such.

 
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  #342 (permalink)
 huracan 
Gahanna, OH
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, ZB, ZN
 
Posts: 20 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 28 given, 21 received

Lots of good discussion which I hope helps you decide. I don't have anything new to add to the variety of ideas, except to say I support whatever you decide.

 
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  #343 (permalink)
 mmaker 
Toronto Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: es
 
mmaker's Avatar
 
Posts: 389 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 1,177 given, 487 received

Indicators alone will not make a potential trader successful.

However, having done my share of programming and tweaking indicators I downloaded from here and the ninja site I can deeply appreciate the long hours it sometimes takes to express oneself in C#.

So when I saw someone collect information here for over a year and then open her own website selling indicators and trading methodology (considering what she knew about trading would fit on the head of a pin) - well I could not believe it.

I felt very bad for the people who had spent hours giving her their precious time and explaining at great length how their indicators worked.

Shameful.

Charge away I say.

It would be even better if the people who contributed indicators got a kickback for the number of times their indicator was downloaded. That might lead to even more indicators being uploaded.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
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  #344 (permalink)
 mbhsi 
Colorado Springs
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 9 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 11 given, 5 received

Hi Mike,

My thought is that it would be wise to make downloads for elite only.

To have those who have made a commitment to being an elite member be the only ones who have access to downloads makes sense to me. To do otherwise might cheapen the value of the downloads and membership in the community.

Thank you for all you do.

Regards,

Mark

 
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  #345 (permalink)
 jmca2000 
Hernado,FL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation,Genisis
 
Posts: 5 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Hi Mike,

For us honest traders and newbie programmers why don't you protect all posted Indicators so that the code can't be viewed unless your a Premium member (if possible). The same way Fat Tails protects his code, but as a member you would be able to view and edit the code for your own Personal Use "Only".

This way traders who want to, can learn how the code is used to create these different indicators and they also can modify them with there own preferences and preset settings or patch meal different code from different indicators to create there own unique indicator. This may be good way to provide the best of both worlds.

If you decide to only allow premium members to download the posted indicators, I would become a member, only if I can view the code, because for me this is for learning purposes to create my own indicators, since there is no books or tutorial's on writing code for NT. I'd rather learn how to fish then just receive a fish.

Thanks for your consideration.

 
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  #346 (permalink)
Antisyzygy
Denver, Colorado, USA
 
 
Posts: 36 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 17 received


mmaker View Post
Indicators alone will not make a potential trader successful.

However, having done my share of programming and tweaking indicators I downloaded from here and the ninja site I can deeply appreciate the long hours it sometimes takes to express oneself in C#.

So when I saw someone collect information here for over a year and then open her own website selling indicators and trading methodology (considering what she knew about trading would fit on the head of a pin) - well I could not believe it.

I felt very bad for the people who had spent hours giving her their precious time and explaining at great length how their indicators worked.

Shameful.

Charge away I say.

It would be even better if the people who contributed indicators got a kickback for the number of times their indicator was downloaded. That might lead to even more indicators being uploaded.

There is nothing wrong with starting your own business after learning some things. What is wrong is stealing someone else's efforts. This is the only reason I am happy to pay for the service, to not encourage scam artists to steal code and pawn it off as their own. This woman you mention may be making totally unique code based on her learning here, and Im not sure how that is wrong since I am sure most people have sold their knowledge at some point or another. In fact, unless we existed in a Communist society where trading would not even be possible since we would have developed as a society beyond it, there will never be people that do no sell their knowledge. I am sure she is appreciative, and if not then it will show in her shoddy business model as she deals with people. Without a link and background information it is hard to make a judgement on her.

 
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  #347 (permalink)
traderstuff
Chgo,Il
 
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I mainly agree with most of what Nicko says, I've seen other Free groups where some members decided to be Paid mentors, run Paid trading rooms, offer Paid indicators and trading systems, etc, and this turned into a disaster for the original Free room.

You, on the other hand, have turned a free forum into a split group, where some who wish to send you money have more privileges, etc than those who do not.

There are too many freely available sources nowadays available from knowledgeable traders, of course, the choice is yours to make your 'room' whatever you want to.











nicko View Post
Keep it free, no conditions.

Run more ads on ur pages if u need more income. You will make more money this way than through memberships in the long run. As u develop ur income by marketing through ads, u will develop the revenue to reimburse all elite users their membership fee. This is a step in the right direction, a way to gain integrity and credibility and profitability.

It is not plausible to me that u need to protect the hard work of others nor ur own 'hard work', nor the need to protect ur own intellectual property.

Ur success will be determined by the quality of the service u provide, which may or may not be justified by the elite membership fee: personally i have no interest in paying for ur services.

The extent to which u provide useful trading tools to the trading community u will personally benefit and empower those around u. Deriving your revenue primarily from selling membership for education probably does not give u credibility I am looking for. Running ads is just fine and a perfectly legitimate source of income. Ur excuses about y u want to protect ur information make no sense at all to me.

The main and most legitimate way that the internet operates is by freely marketing, branding and promoting products and services. A good product and service will ALWAYS sell itself. U do not need to fend of the copycats. Either u get it right and develop the trust, loyalty and support of the community or not. Time will tell.

Ur site has some useful information and is a resource. U should be seeking ways to open ur service and remove all restrictions rather than wasting time trying to protect anything. There is nothing to protect. There is a plethora of free information on the net and u r not even a drop in the bucket. U r only showing weakness in the eyes of the public by sending out emails such as the one i just received. Keep ur gloves up and tell ppl positive things and find ways of value adding ur services.

gl


 
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  #348 (permalink)
deerfern
Chicago Illinois USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Mike,

I agree with your thoughts.

Although I am really new here, I am looking forward to learning as I am a newbie and want to learn from true educated individuals... I find it hard to sort through the mess of folks trying to get my money and I"m not sure I will learn anything ... or anything useful, anyway.

A site that makes folks pay for downloads is usually better, IMHO. I haven't paid to be elite yet as I am not sure what that involved and was, I need to read up on the site more.

But I am still for it, and I thank you very much for this great site.

 
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  #349 (permalink)
 Rayzor 
Coloado
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: AMP, OEC, CQG
Trading: NQ
 
Posts: 129 since Sep 2010

Mike, I have paid a whole lot more for trading education, rooms, and gurus and received a whole lot less. This place is worth $50.00 a month in my opinion. Just my thoughts.......

Ray

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
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  #350 (permalink)
 tdaman 
Colorado Springs
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, Ninja Trader
Broker: IQFeed, AMP/CQG
Trading: EC, ES, TF
 
tdaman's Avatar
 
Posts: 130 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 37 given, 23 received

Seems paying on this site would solve many problems from finding and posting indicators to keeping everybody accountable as actual members.

 
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  #351 (permalink)
Antisyzygy
Denver, Colorado, USA
 
 
Posts: 36 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 17 received


mmaker View Post
Indicators alone will not make a potential trader successful.

However, having done my share of programming and tweaking indicators I downloaded from here and the ninja site I can deeply appreciate the long hours it sometimes takes to express oneself in C#.

So when I saw someone collect information here for over a year and then open her own website selling indicators and trading methodology (considering what she knew about trading would fit on the head of a pin) - well I could not believe it.

I felt very bad for the people who had spent hours giving her their precious time and explaining at great length how their indicators worked.

Shameful.

Charge away I say.

It would be even better if the people who contributed indicators got a kickback for the number of times their indicator was downloaded. That might lead to even more indicators being uploaded.


jmca2000 View Post
Hi Mike,

For us honest traders and newbie programmers why don't you protect all posted Indicators so that the code can't be viewed unless your a Premium member (if possible). The same way Fat Tails protects his code, but as a member you would be able to view and edit the code for your own Personal Use "Only".

This way traders who want to, can learn how the code is used to create these different indicators and they also can modify them with there own preferences and preset settings or patch meal different code from different indicators to create there own unique indicator. This may be good way to provide the best of both worlds.

If you decide to only allow premium members to download the posted indicators, I would become a member, only if I can view the code, because for me this is for learning purposes to create my own indicators, since there is no books or tutorial's on writing code for NT. I'd rather learn how to fish then just receive a fish.

Thanks for your consideration.

In fact there are many tutorials for coding in NT. From their website, to books on the C# language. I would recommend that you consider taking courses in programming at a tech school. It is totally understandable that you feel the way you do, and if you need any help finding a good path to pursue let me know. I'm sort of a University buff, but you can easily go to a tech school to learn how to program what you need to.

 
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  #352 (permalink)
 dwftrader 
Orange County, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader, Sierra, Ensign
Trading: Emini's, forex, Gold, Euro/USD
 
Posts: 1 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 0 received

Mike,

I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity your site provides. To this day, It has never crossed my mind that I made a bad decision in sending you money to become an Elite member. Your hard work in maintaining this site and allowing truly gifted traders and coders share their work is invaluable. The money I spent for what is provided in return has to be the best educational trading value around. Your site continually educates and allows for continual trader growth.

I do not support this generations "ENTITLEMENT" attitude. Therefore, my vote is to make the downloads for Elite members only.

To those that are against this or are still on the fence. Step away from the negative thoughts for a moment and look at what you are receiving for the membership fee. If you do not see the VALUE this site provides, then I ask you to ask yourself.... Am I really serious about trading?

Mike, keep up the hard work, I am one who appreciates it!

Thanks,

Geoff

 
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  #353 (permalink)
 candy 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Ninja
Trading: Forex, Oil, Gold, Currency Futures
 
Posts: 2 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received

Hi Mike,

First, thanks for all your hard work, making this a great place. Second, I agree with others that say you can't please all the people all of the time. You have to do what you think is best. I'm behind whatever you think is right to preserve the site.

 
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  #354 (permalink)
HarryHindsight
New Zealand
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I am yet to post on here but see futures.io (formerly BMT) as the best forum I have found. The $50 is not a lot and may filter out the pests etc. Do what you think is best.

 
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  #355 (permalink)
Southbay
San Jose
 
 
Posts: 13 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 3 received

I do not have a need to download any indicators or codes for now but I am in a vote for "Download for a fee".
People joins this site to share ideas and concept of tradings then for a small fee paid to learn and get other people's indicators is a very small price to pay.

 
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  #356 (permalink)
Sasha
Reno, NV
 
 
Posts: 30 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 8 given, 9 received

I don't mind, at least people will know why they are paying money for elite status

 
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  #357 (permalink)
 tm10 
QC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NINJA TRADER
Trading: E MINI RUSSEL AND ES
 
Posts: 63 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 58 received

Hi mike,remember all those good thoughts when u start this forum.For sure,u gone have some good and some bad people.Measurement of behaviour is not possible because people belongs to different culture,countries and back grounds and Reward is not and never from people.keep doing good work.Any change u think will work,we r with u.Thanks for all your hard work specially the webinars .

TM10

 
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  #358 (permalink)
RRutrat
North Hollywood, CA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 11 given, 0 received

Mike,
I understand that things cannot be perfect. Just do what you believe is best in this situation.

 
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  #359 (permalink)
 Bacon 
3rd Rock
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Other
 
Bacon's Avatar
 
Posts: 204 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 273 given, 1,384 received

Greetings @Big Mike,

First thing you need to do is to decide which of your stated goals has the highest priority...

1. "Protect" indicator authors from plagiarism?
2. Reduce download frequency and/or exclude bots (lower bandwidth overhead)?
3. Curtail futures.io (formerly BMT)'s growth?

Then determine which action will best accomplish that goal... (following is IMHO)

If 1. then you already have the required tools implemented, thus no change needed. You have an elite side and a free side, thus the authors are already free to decide whether to limit access via elite or to allow everyone free access. If there are authors that are concerned, then gently remind them that it's their responsibility to upload the appropriate side (not yours). Besides, I think folks would be rather naive if they think that anything posted to a public access forum can be "protected", elite or otherwise. So if this is your primary goal, then sit back and relax, you've already provided the required services. Leave everything as is.

If 2. then by all means, move all downloads to elite. This won't curtail the determined, but it will stop the lazy in their tracks (and we all know the ratio of determined vs. lazy).

If 3. then make the entire site elite. Guaranteed to stunt futures.io (formerly BMT)'s growth (and probably reputation) big time. Beware of the potential consequences though. After spending some time rooting around and realizing the enormous amount of accumulated knowledge at futures.io (formerly BMT), I became a member simply because; a. I wanted (in some small way) to support you and to acknowledge the extraordinary amount of work you put into futures.io (formerly BMT), b. I wanted access to a larger brain trust. However, without the ability to "kick the tires" before "buying", I would have passed by futures.io (formerly BMT) without a so much as second glance.

In short, I'd say that you've created a damn good system and Im happy with it, as is. I'd only change the status quo if you trying to battle a bandwidth issue. BTW, I'd strongly discourage setting post count limits, it just generates garbage posts. I also read your addendum and am happy you’re excluded the copyright, licensing, obfuscating, Captcha, etc. concepts.

Thank you sincerely for a wonderful place to "hang".

Bacon

P.S. Concerning folks not filling out their “bio”... I’m sure you've noticed that I'm one of them. I’m just not willing to make it easier for the naughty. Thus I’m quite happy living on the 3rd Rock. I hope you're cool with that.

 
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  #360 (permalink)
 grinder 
Boise Idaho
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjaTrader
Broker: Amp / CQG
Trading: ZB
 
Posts: 28 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 35 given, 24 received

Mike,
I've enjoyed your forum and learned quite a lot from it but I really didn't really start learning until I became an Elite member. The old saying: "You only learn from what you invest in", is very true. I've not been a big post'r because every time I come up with something that I think is good and start working on a post, somebody else comes along and posts something, along the same lines, that just blows me away... One of these days, I'll get it right but in the mean time, I thank you, Mike, for this forum and I thank the other members that contribute that make this forum so damn good!!!



Grinder

 
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  #361 (permalink)
 Rocketdog 
Newcastle Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E
 
Rocketdog's Avatar
 
Posts: 60 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 98 given, 62 received

I'm in favour of restricting acces to Elite Members only.

 
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  #362 (permalink)
 masterchanger 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: 3C,Multicharts
Broker: CQG, Binance.us, FTX.us
Trading: ES, currency futures,GC
 
masterchanger's Avatar
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 32 given, 17 received

Hello All,

I just found this site recently, I have some trading experience and have used several platforms. I have learned, for myself that indicators and systems have little value withoutout the discipline to follow what your have found or created.

I'm a discretionary trader who is looking to learn how to program with an eye toward automating what i do. I'm here more for the community and if your feel you need to make the content accessible to only elite members then I will have to live with that.

I don't quite understand a why Captchas dont work, that should solve the bot issue, who cares if it pissess people off who are using technology to mass download! Also requiring that all fields and a valid email be filled out before registering isnt asking alot and i think it should be manditory to only allow full access to those that do.

Follow me on Twitter
 
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  #363 (permalink)
superman0453
SINGAPORE
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

the place is built from good will and sharing of ideas. it is just human nature that there will be some who would 'steal' from here. the way to curb them is probably by having a memebership like elite or a monitoring program that will put bar them from access if they are identified as the bad crop.

 
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  #364 (permalink)
 Stem1 
Cairns Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MC,NT7
Broker: Dukascopy
Trading: FX
 
Posts: 51 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 96 given, 9 received

Nothing wrong with a bit of tuning. Do it.

 
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  #365 (permalink)
 nirajkrishna 
McKinney, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, ThinkorSwim
Broker: IB
Trading: Equities
 
Posts: 58 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 5 given, 88 received

Yes do it!!! I personally struggled with trading until I saw the Wizard's Holy Grail 2 and started using Renkos. I always credit futures.io (formerly BMT) when I am asked for help on StockTwits. The indicators on this site are the best on the planet! No one should be able to profit from the talent and willingness to share of futures.io (formerly BMT)'s members. I personally havent contributed much but some tick data. But hey as far as I am aware, this is the only place to get that free tick data!

 
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  #366 (permalink)
moyaya30
London United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

I think it is better to let the owner of the material (the member who uploads) decide either make it public or for elite only. may include this in the upload process, or add a file specification (public/for elite) to the file and give the admins and sub-admins the right to choose,mmm..., acually, it is a big matter and need deep analysing.

The following user says Thank You to moyaya30 for this post:
 
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  #367 (permalink)
 jligon1 
Midwest City, OK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Foliofn
Broker: Foliofn
Trading: TNA/TZA
 
Posts: 2 since May 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

Great Idea! It will simplify searching as well as encourage others to become elite members.



Jack

 
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  #368 (permalink)
 program 
CA USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: DDT+land/Rithmic/IQ
Trading: S&P500,6E,YM
 
program's Avatar
 
Posts: 100 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 127 given, 64 received

As a super new (elite) member I'd say go for it. there is a tremendous amount of help and knowledge here for the regular user without any of the downloads. people will take advantage.
quality over quantity.
Lets put it this way... if i ever get good at these trading shenanigans and i post something that i value. I'd want it to be elite only.

 
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  #369 (permalink)
 investman9 
el monte ca
 
Experience: None
Platform: ninja trader
Trading: es,cl nq,dx,
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 8 given, 0 received

Hi there
I want to thank you everyone for their effort and hard work that you have been made to do this forum the biggest one that I've known .I'm a newbie in this kind of bussiness and I 'm still learning from you guys, I really aprecciated for what you had shared.
In my humble opinion I tnink that is fair to pay for what you get especially if you get benefit of this .

 
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  #370 (permalink)
 Rajob 
Munich, Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: cTrader, Own c#, MC.Net
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 12 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 23 given, 9 received

It would be a fair move to protect elite membership and the work of the programmers. Whoever shows real interest will sign up and pay.

 
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  #371 (permalink)
 Jura   is a Vendor
 
 
Jura's Avatar
 
Posts: 774 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 2,347 given, 688 received

I'm a little bit late to this discussion, so I haven't read all 38 pages, but I'd like to add that I think this is a great idea Mike. From my standpoint, I've recently stopped contributing and being as active with posting than I was earlier. The biggest reason for this was that I was somewhat disappointed that I, and other posters, sometimes seemed to care more about the issue than the person who brought the issue / question forward. I'm not assigning blame here - I think it's normal behaviour on a big, anonymous forum - but it is somewhat disappointing from my standpoint. If all the downloads are elite only, I think (hope) that we have more serious discussion, and not people who just drop a question, and log in a week later to collect the answers.

Just my two cents.


Big Mike View Post
Verifying peoples identity via phone call is impractical and is not being considered. Over 30 new people sign up daily. A percentage of these people won't even list a nearby City, State or Country they live in, or they won't even list a valid email address. Asking for a phone number will probably give a large percentage of people heart attacks, and if not, I would certainly have one myself trying to call everyone and explain why I am calling. This is not an option.


raffu View Post
But real name verification would be ok and might stop some bad behaviour if it exist.

I'm okay with using our real first name (that can perhaps even make the discussion more personal and friendly), but please do not go into ways that compromise our privacy. People normally don't like this, and I certainly don't want to use my full, real name here. It's not that I don't trust BigMike with this info - but this should not be viewable to other users, and if futures.io (formerly BMT) gets hacked I do not want this incredibly sensitive information being in the public.

The same goes for listing the city that you live in - in my small town, I'm the only one with my surname. Would I be comfortable that the whole world (yes, futures.io (formerly BMT) is that big ) can look into the telephone book and find my, and my family, address and phone number? Definitely not.

I agree that spammers and just unfriendly people should be filtered out, but I do not think that giving up privacy is (or ever will be) the answer.

Best regards,

 
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  #372 (permalink)
 kiasom 
Stockholm
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC
Trading: fx
 
Posts: 16 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 139 given, 23 received

I'm for this change. The quality of the forum is it's main asset. Anything that improves quality is good.

 
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  #373 (permalink)
 bukkan 
Calcutta, India
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ArthaChitra
 
Posts: 278 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 161 given, 269 received

theres nothing on the earth that can stop leechers, spammers, trolls, etc. its a side effect of being successful.

As I write this thread is 38 pages long. We could have used our resource in a better way.

 
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  #374 (permalink)
SawViper
Chennai
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

There are a few people out there who for some reasons may not be a part of the Elite membership group. If the intention of the uploader is to share his code/asset with everybody (incl. non-Elite members), it would be a disservice to him.
I think the choice to limit access to the upload should be left to the original owner of the asset. If he so wishes, he may restrict the asset only to Elite members.
Just my 2 cents.
SawViper

The following 2 users say Thank You to SawViper for this post:
 
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  #375 (permalink)
 whoisthere48 
Fort Collins, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Zaner Zen-Fire
Trading: GC Comex Gold
 
whoisthere48's Avatar
 
Posts: 32 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 185 given, 29 received

First I REALLY APPRECIATE all the great trading help I have gotten from this site and it would not have happened if Mike had not stepped up and taken his time and money to put it on the web and guided it to it's current state.

I believe Mike is entitled to any and all financial benefits he can get from this site as a small recompense for all he has done for those of us who value and frequent the site.

And let me say that I would not mind paying a small (auto-bill) monthly fee for the privilege of using the site and getting access to what those with great minds and giving spirits have provided here.

That said, here is my idea for Mike that I would love to see...
Try what has worked for America... capitalism... build a better mousetrap and sell it. Mike should offer something like a vendor area within futures.io (formerly BMT). In the vendor area contributors (call them "vendors") could sell whatever they want at whatever price they want and Mike gets 50% of the price as his commission. If it's too much it won't sell. If it's junk, the vendor's ratings (in plain view) will show that. That way, the talented traders here would be more motivated to offer up great indicators, strategies, webinars (especially on coding for NinjaTrader) and so on. Just think how great that would be. The law of the marketplace, at work again!

It is my hope that I could learn enough about trading (and coding) to be one of those vendors making a few bucks but more importantly helping out some folks who are searching and struggling in a morass of trading BS to find a way to make a living trading.

At the risk of being politically incorrect (not the first time)... God bless you Mike.

Richard in Colorado

 
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  #376 (permalink)
 neriusb 
Kaunas, Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: IB/IQFeed
Trading: Stocks, Futures
 
neriusb's Avatar
 
Posts: 15 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 16 given, 13 received

I think it's good decision.

Best regards
Nerius

 
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  #377 (permalink)
3virgul14
Budapest
 
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

I also favour the change, please give access to everyone .

It means more feedback, better sharing of information and finally the overall quality of the forum will definitely improve.

 
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  #378 (permalink)
 shodson 
Quantoholic
OC, California, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB/TWS, NinjaTrader, ToS
Broker: IB, ToS, Kinetick
Trading: stocks, options, futures, VIX
 
shodson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,962 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 529 given, 3,655 received

Maybe try implementing a more sophisticated reputation system, something like StackOverflow.

Or, to download something, you must upload something. When someone downloads it you get 1 download credit. This could create lots of fake accounts of people downloading their own stuff just to get credits. Also, it only rewards uploaders/developers. Perhaps you could give the uploader the option of who can download it. Having the choice to put something in Elite Downloads or normal download area does that already.

I don't know, just thinking out loud. I think more choice to the creators might help, a-la Creative Commons or Google+ Circles concept. After all, uploaders have different reasons for contributing, let them choose who gets to benefit from their work.

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  #379 (permalink)
GTNorthwest
Seattle, WA
 
 
Posts: 4 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 11 given, 1 received

Mike,

I am very new to this community and until the last couple of days have been a non-Elite member.

It doesn't take long for the average person who is interested in trading and looking for useful resources, to see that futures.io (formerly BMT) is a valid, friendly, valuable resource. I decided to contribute financialy to/for this forum because... A) $25 or $50 is a pitence for someone willing to risk thousands for a profit., and....B) It's the right thing to do, to show legitimate support and appreciation for good people and useful information.

My two cents worth is that anyone who doesn't WANT to pay ( not just isn't WILLING to pay) is either one of the types you are trying to avoid with your tentative changes, or, is the type who is confused about how the world, and the realities of doing business in said world, really operates.

It is obvious that you have put much thought and consideration into this dilema, and if paying for Elite membership will help keep the forum the user-friendly resource that it now is, then I say it's a no-brainer.

Thanks,

Gary


Big Mike View Post
All,

I am contemplating a major / drastic change to the behavior of all downloads on the site. The change would be to make all downloads Elite Only. I mean all downloads, in posts, threads, downloads section, everywhere globally. The only exclusion would be images (screen shots), but all other file types would be available only to Elite Members.

I have mixed feelings on this, so wanted to get some feedback from the users to consider as well before making any decisions. The main reason for the desire to change is to protect the work and to protect the value of the community.

Right now, too many "bots" are downloading our indicators and posting them on other sites as their own. Right now, too many real people register "fake" accounts because they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to type in correct info when they register, all because all they want is to download something and likely never participate further in the site.

I previously tried enforcing a 10 post minimum for downloads, but all that did was have people create 10 junk posts. So that isn't going to work.

It seems the best way to protect the collection of downloads the users have worked very hard on, is to restrict access to only those who are serious about trading.

It certainly doesn't have to be Elite only, but the only other realistic option to implement is the minimum post requirement. If I change it to say 50 (instead of what we tried before, 10) then maybe it would prevent people from creating 50 spam posts just to download something, but still allow people who are serious about trading - but for whatever reason aren't Elite members - to still download. But the problem is, 50 posts is far, far more than what most people have (unfortunately), so such a requirement is likely to just piss off a lot of people.

The desire to change is not about increasing Elite sign ups. In fact, lately I have been wondering if futures.io (formerly BMT) is getting "too big" as we've started to attract some of the trolls from other sites and sometimes some of the posts are getting unfriendly lately. I am fighting this very hard as I am sure you are as well. We all want futures.io (formerly BMT) to remain a unique place, a place where everyone is truly here to help, and not start arguments, call each other names, or other troll like behavior. So this might mean making futures.io (formerly BMT) a more exclusive place where only serious traders are welcome.

Now obviously, just because someone pays for Elite membership does not automatically mean they are a serious trader. But they are probably far less likely to be a trouble maker while paying for the privilege to be here.

So a move of making all downloads Elite only might stunt our growth in terms of new user sign ups to the site, but that is fine with me if it means that what growth we have is of a higher quality and caliber user. I don't want to make the requirement solely based on post count, because there are far, far too many people who do not post much but are still working very hard to improve their trading. These people have signed up for Elite status to help support the site, and I think that entitles them to receive the downloads without a minimum post requirement.

Anyway, so there it is. Some of my many thoughts on the matter. Please share yours. I'm hoping to get a good mix of replies from both Elite Members and non-Elite Members.

Mike

---- ADDED MON 9/5/11 9:36PM EST ----

Moderator Notice
Moderator Notice



Thanks,
Mike


 
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  #380 (permalink)
 Trader12A 
New Zealand
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Mirus/Zenfire
Trading: Currencies, YM, CL
 
Posts: 63 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 266 given, 31 received

Hi Mike
I agree with placing all downloads (except screen shots) in the Elite section - this would certainly make it easier for people when participating in threads and wishing to include indicators.
regards

 
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  #381 (permalink)
 Angel 
Riga, Latvia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Infinity, NT
Broker: Infinity/TransAct
Trading: ES, NQ
 
Angel's Avatar
 
Posts: 1 since May 2010
Thanks: 84 given, 0 received

BigMike thank you for your valuable forum. I'm not participating in discussions due to some difficulties to express my opinion & thoughts in English, but I appreciate all posts, ideas and experiences people are sharing here.

I agree that all downloads should be available only for Elite members.

 
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  #382 (permalink)
 dincervolkan 
istanbul
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: IB/Zenfire
Trading: dax
 
dincervolkan's Avatar
 
Posts: 5 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

I am one of those people that appreciate the costs (time + money) involved in starting and maintaining a site such as futures.io (formerly BMT). That is why I became an elite member very early on.

However, I think the decision belongs to Big Mike.

I am OK with it either way.

Best Regards

 
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  #383 (permalink)
 yiman 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts, MT4
Broker: IB, PFG Best
Trading: 6E, EMD, TF
 
Posts: 258 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 110 given, 152 received

I say make the downloads elite for all indicators that are continuously being updated and have obviusly had alot of thought and work put into them. The contributors here are avery generous bunch, You just have to look around on the internet to find indicators that have been ripped off from here and being sold as originals.
On the other hand whats to stop someone becoming an elite member so that they can steal afew indicators and make afew changes to sell.

 
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  #384 (permalink)
 MasterSS 
Russia, Ekaterinburg
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: FXCM
Trading: forex
 
MasterSS's Avatar
 
Posts: 13 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 123 given, 3 received

Good idea Mike, the fight with the boats and people who sell or spread out over the internet with futures.io (formerly BMT) indicators can only be limited access to downloads. Leave a review for indicators, including possible for the elite section and allow to download users only to an elite status.
For those wishing to sell indicators downloaded from futures.io (formerly BMT) to put a label on the files to know the source of the leak.
sorry for my English, I use a translator.
Serg

 
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  #385 (permalink)
 devdas 
Al,India
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Z
Trading: NiftyFuture
 
devdas's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,508 given, 1,701 received

Mike,
One more thought,

1) Leave the elite/non-elite structure as it is now...and make all downloads elite.

2) I can see a "Level" bar meter under user's avtar area, showing Level,Points and activity.

3) Adopt a more expanded use of this Level Indicator for elites so that only download would be possible
if a elite maintain certain minimum Level,points, forum activity.

4) these can be taken as some of points that would reward/increase elite's Level Indicator...

a) How much time in hours elite logged-in in forum in 24 hour( this will increase/decrease Level indicator )
b) How many (significant) threads opened by elite in one month time.
c) How many (significant) post by elite in one month.
d) How many upload by elite in one month.
e) How many unique downloads by elite in one month. ( this will decrease Level indicator by choosen amount)
f) .......more can be thought.

Just a suggestion if can be implemented...might solve atleast most problems.

Harvest The Moon
Nest The Market
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  #386 (permalink)
 renek 
Kastrup
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NJ
Trading: SPY
 
Posts: 10 since May 2011
Thanks: 9 given, 3 received

No problemo here. $50 for elite membership is peanuts...

 
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  #387 (permalink)
 MurphyCZek 
Lovosice, Czech Republic
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP Trading/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF
 
Posts: 2 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 14 given, 0 received

Hello Big Mike,

I am also for the proposed changes. Around the world a lot forums full of repetitive information for free. I think that person is otherwise loaded with information obtained for the money than with the information for free. Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and ideas. For a lifetime membership of $ 50 is certainly not much.

Successful Trading all.

 
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  #388 (permalink)
 kiro 
Berlin /Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader / eSignal
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures / Currencies
 
Posts: 6 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 8 received

Hi Mike,

it seems fair to me to make the downloades for Elite members only.

This is a great place to lurn and get new ideas. I do not post much, but I do not think that this is a measure of interest. Some members (such as me) are not so good in English and that is why we do not have so much posts (for this few words I nieded 20 minutes)………..lol

thanks for everything Big Mike

 
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  #389 (permalink)
 Bramhall17 
Manchester UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 7
Trading: ES NQ + Weekly Options
 
Posts: 25 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 22 given, 12 received

I agree Mike. I don't post much as many threads are Ninja orientated and I use Investor/RT. I do watch various webinars though.

For any serious trader the subscription costs are tiny. If you sense that your goodwill is being abused you should proceed with the change immediately.

 
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  #390 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, SC, ToS
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,135 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,388 given, 1,727 received

I'd agree it would be better to have the quality indicators require elite status, or at least a high enough level.
I used to be a member of TSL (traders-secret-library.com) library and forum for an annual fee of $500. It was filled with vendor regurgitated free articles/ads from other partner vendors. And the indicators and systems, and help and discussion on the forums on futures.io (formerly BMT) for free, were far more valuable then what I found on TSL in the course of a year.

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  #391 (permalink)
 crazybears 
Alesia E.U.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra chart
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 168 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 146 given, 113 received

Hi
I agree that downloads should be allowed only to Elite membeship.
will be always possible stealing the code and sell it, maybe code should be crypted but it's not 100% safe still.
I think best solution is :
all code under Elite Membership.
more advertising of the futures.io (formerly BMT) community and the advantages it offers
if someone found an indicator that show likeness to another already posted on BM foum , simply open a thread and tell to all people of the community .
likely users here post in another forum and in different language also, so maybe someone could post this information in another forum and another language , information spreads quickly and widely .
maybe it works or not

 
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  #392 (permalink)
bassramy
Paris
 
 
Posts: 3 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

Of course all elite members will 100% agree on this, after all they are elite members so they wont miss a thing, i'm not an elite member, and i'm not a passing through guy, i follow all the threads that interest me and yes i download some stuff sometimes, BM, you know u have a logical and valid opinion on this.
I will miss the occasional downloads but u have to look at the Big picture here and that is intellectual rights.

Go ahead and do it for elite only, but remember that we regular guys are following ur futures.io (formerly BMT) community too.
with all respect.

 
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  #393 (permalink)
 PushHands 
San Jose, CA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: NQ
 
PushHands's Avatar
 
Posts: 53 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 782 given, 33 received

Must admit to only reading the first 9 pages of this thread so did not get everyone's view point. I don't honestly consider myself an "Elite" member since my contribution to the community is currently next to nil. Guess my reasoning is that I've been struggling with trading for so long and don't have much insight to contribute (though have thoughts on posting in the Psychology forum).

With that said, I have yet to load any indicators from this forum, but may have downloaded a few some time ago. As a visitor, I saw the value of the content on futures.io (formerly BMT) and wanted access to more. And what a better way to support Mike and the futures.io (formerly BMT) community (in my small way) than to make a financial contribution to keep it up and running?
One of the greatest asset of futures.io (formerly BMT) is its generous environment. And I've learned in life, giving should be done 'smartly.' Would hate it if those that contributed felt they were being taken advantaged and we lose that generous environment.

I'm fine with the downloads being limited to Elite members, not because they hold some holy trading secret, but because it one more hurdle for those who want to take from the futures.io (formerly BMT) community solely for their own commercial gain. We all know how tantalizing those wiz bang indicators are. The more the vendor charges, the better they are right?

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  #394 (permalink)
 DarrenH 
Cotswolds UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, Multicharts
Broker: Mirus,Amp,ZenFire
Trading: Fdax
 
DarrenH's Avatar
 
Posts: 64 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 95 given, 23 received

Hi Mike

Great Forum & fantastic participation from its members really is helpful.

Yes i agree make downloads elite only!

 
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  #395 (permalink)
 jleko 
Split/Croatia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: es,e6,tf,fdax
 
Posts: 6 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 0 received

I'm not participating that much in a forum, but from time to time I come to see what people are posting. Downloads should be avaialable to elite members only who should identify themselves with valid email address and services connected with that email address( example: Paypal or Skype), so every time someone makes download futures.io (formerly BMT) could know who did it.
Regards.

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  #396 (permalink)
 Ralph07 
London UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, TT
Broker: Mirus
Trading: CL, Dax, ES, Eurostoxx50
 
Posts: 121 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 23 given, 46 received

Hi,

I agree that all downloads should be only available for Elite members, but will it really change something? If someone wants to steal stuff from here and sell it, he will pay the 50$, even 200$ if needed...

Tough to find a real solution in my opinion...

Have a great day!

 
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  #397 (permalink)
 MicroAl 
Cornwall UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Certaintly do not agree with the minimum post idea. The quality of posts on here is quite high and if I feel that I have something really worthwhile to post I will (as in this case, my first post I believe). If you enforce a minimum post condition, people will post just to fulfill their quota.

I think that Mike has got it right up to now. There are thousands of traders sites on the web, many just a ruse to get money. (Certaintly not this one!) The way Mike has arranged the site, a prospective member can go through most of the site freely, see the quality of the posts and then pay for an Elite membership once the prospective member realises how worthfull this would be.

However it appears that Mike has been too successful as the site is becoming too big and too much work. I certaintly have no problem with Mike getting a proper reward for the work he has done on this site.

One option is to increase the membership fees or make it Elite only. You could have a trial membership for $5 for a couple of weeks. You would lose a lot of visitors I believe, but it should cut down the work on the site. Another idea is to completely close the site to new members, but that would be unfortunate.

No easy answer to this one Mike. Remember you being very helpful on the Ninja Trader Forum.

MicroAl

PS Must do something about pressing the thanks button. Sorry, so thanks all for everthing......

 
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  #398 (permalink)
sunny2010
london
 
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

The case for and against - both have good enough reasons to support each sides argument.

I think - it is for BM - to examine the reason - Why you created the site.

For me - Why did I visit your site? - well I wanted help with something I could not quite solve myself. have I solved it .....yes & no. Would I have "paid" for the information .......probably not. Why? .....Probably because I have paid many times on other sites and found myself disappointed.

One question - for everybody to ask themselves .....If you were successfully trading ...would you visit internet trading sites? if your answer is yes....ask yourselves...WHY?
The "others" -who are still stuggling......would you visit Internet trading sites? ask yourselves ..WHY?

To BM ....Examine your reasons for setting up this site. Pls don't be influenced by .."misuse" by others. Pls think of the old adage ......" just because the dog barks......does not mean you sell yourself and bark as well.".....

thats my 2 pence worth

 
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  #399 (permalink)
 tke1 
Edinburgh, Scotland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: OX, MBT
Trading: Currency Futures, Options
 
Posts: 6 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 12 given, 0 received

Hi,

I am new to this site but not new to trading and therefore will give you my reasoning for joining the Elite section within days of finding this site.

Quite simply I saw the usefulness of the content and wanted to pay my "dues" once I had downloaded a useful indicator.

I am not a full time trader but hope to be in the future etc so I would suggest the following for consideration....

Post all new downloads in the Elite section and post everything that is say, 1 year old, in an "open for all" community - I believe we should encourage people to pay something back but not discourage them from visiting or learning - but let them make their own decision - we all like that.

This is an excellent Forum and I am enjoying being a new member....

Kind regards to you all....

 
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  #400 (permalink)
 Barrosco 
Brazil
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB
Trading: 6E, 6C, 6B and ES, NQ, YM
 
Posts: 94 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 45 given, 33 received

I beleive, now, Big Mike has a lot of ideas.
For the moment I suggest: to make downloads you have to be Elite member.


Closed Thread

futures io Trading Community Feedback and Announcements > Elite only for ALL downloads?


Last Updated on September 10, 2011


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