No matter what you do you wont stop people from ripping off ideas , whether it be thru charging more or restricting the site to major contributors . They will pay more or just lodge dodgy replies or threads. I am a struggling trader who has found your site invaluable for ideas and sharing knowledge. Unfortunately I am not a programmer and struggle with that side of things. At 62 and struggling with health issues after retirement I have often had to refer to your site for information. Unfortunately there i s nothing I could post that is equal to the quality on your site. Restrict it to Elite members only but dont cut out a lot of struggling traders like myself who can benefit them from the shared knowledge and help them on the road to financial stability.
I have two killer questions for all those who passionately advocate downloads for Elite only:
1. Have you asked all those people who contributed code to some project if they want their code to be locked up? You are deciding upon someone you have no authority upon.
2. So, somebody or some group of people made indicator and now it's in paid only Elite section. That means work by members but monetary reward to website?.. How fair is that? What if many people contributed to final indicator? How would you account share percentage they all should get? Who will do that? How much time that will take?
Don't you think that will open pandora's box with legal and monetary issues, and break down now collaborative futures.io (formerly BMT) community?
I tend to be in the some items free and others in Elite Section only crowd. Indicator downloads I can see placed somewhere in the the Elite section, with basic chart screen shots or quick individual trader screencasting vids in free areas. You want to maintain some valuable free content to attract members but have some control of premium content in a "pay to play" section.
Mike,..this will be my brand new post,.and also a new member to the forum, I would like to say that, I have spent thousands on indicators and also on on trading educations but honestly, I have learned more in this forum all for free reading from other peoples experience and I wish I have found this forum a year or so earlier before I spent my big bucks on indicators etc which never worked and wiping out my trading account,.lol...I will gladly upgrade my account to elite and support your move on this regards,..thanks for the great work and keep it up please for the sake of traders like myself!!!
Hi Mike. In my opinions if you will move downloads to elite members area only you will loose about 80% of your auditory. If you do search on internet you will find many usefull NT indicators on foreign sites which are free and have better explanations. I f you want to keep downloads to elite members only thats fine. Im in this business 8 years and no indicators will make you better trader but you. Market is 99% about crowd react in different stage of market and only 1% is technical. No matter which best indicators you have if you dont have discipline and patience you will loose. NO indicators will give you the picture why market goes up or down why its gap or else. In my opinion your expereince is best indicator.
I'd like to thank everyone very much for the replies so far.
I want to make a few things very clear:
1) I am not entertaining any "pay per download" approach.
2) There will not be any extra charge for certain "extra" use of the site or extra functionality, etc, for Elite Members, this was never up for discussion. Elite Membership means you have all the site offers.
3) I am not entertaining any increase for Elite Membership fees at this time, and even if at a later date the fees were to change, all existing Elite Members would be grandfathered in naturally.
4) Verifying peoples identity via phone call is impractical and is not being considered. Over 30 new people sign up daily. A percentage of these people won't even list a nearby City, State or Country they live in, or they won't even list a valid email address. Asking for a phone number will probably give a large percentage of people heart attacks, and if not, I would certainly have one myself trying to call everyone and explain why I am calling. This is not an option.
That said, here are a few more thoughts:
a) Implementing Captcha's doesn't work, Captcha's don't prevent spam - they only annoy users.
b) Asking users to put their work in certain sections of the forum has more or less not been successful. As someone said, "people will be people", and that by in large means they aren't going to follow rules - they will just do whatever is easiest. What this means is by default, the most file sharing occurs in the open forum because it is simply easier. Even though the overwhelming majority of the contributors are Elite Members.
c) So far, regarding the non-Elite Members who have replied to this thread in opposition for changing the site to an Elite Only download configuration --- these members have very rarely posted or contributed anything to the forum. I understand that some people do expect everything to be free or given to them, especially on the internet, and object to anything other than that approach. But the overwhelming majority of these people have shared very little to nothing with the community, they only take. I'm just looking at the numbers. Obviously there are exceptions. When looking to make a decision for the greater good of the entire community, I am mainly interested in doing what is best for those who are active givers or sharers in the community.
d) Copyrighting code, implementing GNU licensing, obfuscating indicators, etc -- these things sound good until you try to understand what is actually involved. First, the people stealing the code could care less about copyrights or licensing. Second, obfuscating code is dangerous and goes against the nature of open sharing (even open sharing within the Elite Only community) because you can't see the code, you can't easily manipulate it or expand upon it, etc. Third, implementing a licensing system like a Vendor where everyone has to be licensed to run an indicator is impractical.
e) No change will stop or correct all the problems. But I'd like to at least curtail it. The general consensus is, when people "pay to play" as someone said, they are more likely to be civil and appreciative towards one another, which fosters a better community atmosphere. Obviously there are exceptions, but I believe we've demonstrated this is the overall case.
OK, that said, I am still thinking everything over and reading each post. I've not reached any decisions except with regards to the above.
I would like to hear more from non-Elite Members. I realize I can't please everyone, but since the change is going to affect you the most, I'd like to hear more from you. In particular if you are active on the forums (lots of posts, lots of sharing, have received lots of thanks -- but have chosen to not become an Elite Member) I'd like to hear from you.
Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.
Need help? 1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first. 2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses. 3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make. 4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance. 5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers. 6) Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.
If you want to support our community, become an Elite Member.
The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
I think its a great idea. If anyone is serious about trading than a small subscription fee is nothing in the big picture. We all know nothing is FREE in life, so pay your way or move on.
Thanks again for a great site,
I am a relative newcomer to futures.io (formerly BMT), followed several threads, downloaded indicators, etc. This my first post as I have very little to contibute and can't be of much help to most futures.io (formerly BMT) folks - perhaps someday that will change. However, futures.io (formerly BMT) has been very helpful to me and I much appreciate the threads, downloads.....
Seems reasonable (and I support) to restrict downloads or even charge $$ for them to support the forum. However, this is unlikely to reduce or stop the 'profiteering'
Might also consider an increase to the price of elite membership.
Thanks to Mike and forum contributors for the continuing hard work to keep this forum going.