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Minimum Scalp Targets for TF, CL, and QM
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Minimum Scalp Targets for TF, CL, and QM

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Dallas, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, TF
 
Posts: 4 since May 2010
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received

Minimum Scalp Targets for TF, CL, and QM

Greetings all,

I have a quick question on minimum moves in the TF, CL and QM to be considered a successful scalp.

As an example, in the ES a signal is deemed to have failed if the trade is triggered and the market does not yield a net 4 tick ($50) scalp.

Does anyone know if there is a universally accepted minimum scalp targets for the TF, CL or QM.

I trade 5 minute bar charts if that is applicable.

Many thanks,

DSF

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  #2 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
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dallasstarsfan View Post
Greetings all,

I have a quick question on minimum moves in the TF, CL and QM to be considered a successful scalp.

As an example, in the ES a signal is deemed to have failed if the trade is triggered and the market does not yield a net 4 tick ($50) scalp.

Does anyone know if there is a universally accepted minimum scalp targets for the TF, CL or QM.

I trade 5 minute bar charts if that is applicable.

Many thanks,

DSF

I just switched from trading the ES to the CL about a month ago and 8 to 10 ticks has been an achievable target to get filled for me.

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  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
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dallasstarsfan View Post
Greetings all,

I have a quick question on minimum moves in the TF, CL and QM to be considered a successful scalp.

As an example, in the ES a signal is deemed to have failed if the trade is triggered and the market does not yield a net 4 tick ($50) scalp.

Does anyone know if there is a universally accepted minimum scalp targets for the TF, CL or QM.

I trade 5 minute bar charts if that is applicable.

Many thanks,

DSF

The minimum target depends on commissions, slippage, win-to-loss ratio and % profitable of your setups. I have addressed this question in a thread "Comparing index futures", which can be found here.

https://futures.io/elite-group-trading-methods/4861-comparing-index-futures.html#post53627

The results suggest that with typical retail commissions (Interactive Brokers), slippage, a 1:1 win-to-loss ratio and 60% profitable, you should make it for CL and TF, if you take the ATR from a 5 min period bar. For QM you would need a larger profit target.

For TF this would be 6-7 ticks, for CL this would be 10-11 ticks.

If you want to scalp with a smaller profit target, you would either need

- lower transaction costs
- a higher win-to-loss ratio than 1:1
- a higher win rate than 60% profitable
- or a combination thereof.

To completely answer your question, I would need the following inputs:

- your transaction costs
- estimated slippage, as this depends on the setup and whether you enter on a market or limit order
- your win-to-loss ratio
- your win-rate
- your targeted expectancy

If these inputs are given, the result can be calculated.

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  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I highly suggest you adapt to trying to scale at the targets you mentioned, and but try to catch bigger swings. I can read tape pretty well, and i can try to scalp all day long and make money... But i can pretty much guarantee you, its not worth it, and very exhausting.. I actually wait and take my trades around area's where i expect the market to pivot, and try to catch bigger profits using tape reading skills... Once you hit your first target, the risk/reward becomes skewed in your favor, since your pretty much risking the houses money to make bigger profits...

Essentially, you're winners will be larger than your losers, and therefore you don't have to be under the pressure on being right 90% of the time...
Thats something i always liked about trading

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  #5 (permalink)
Member
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Michael.H View Post
I highly suggest you adapt to trying to scale at the targets you mentioned, and but try to catch bigger swings. I can read tape pretty well, and i can try to scalp all day long and make money... But i can pretty much guarantee you, its not worth it, and very exhausting.. I actually wait and take my trades around area's where i expect the market to pivot, and try to catch bigger profits using tape reading skills... Once you hit your first target, the risk/reward becomes skewed in your favor, since your pretty much risking the houses money to make bigger profits...

Essentially, you're winners will be larger than your losers, and therefore you don't have to be under the pressure on being right 90% of the time...
Thats something i always liked about trading

Excellent advice.

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  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Michael.H View Post
I highly suggest you adapt to trying to scale at the targets you mentioned, and but try to catch bigger swings. I can read tape pretty well, and i can try to scalp all day long and make money... But i can pretty much guarantee you, its not worth it, and very exhausting.. I actually wait and take my trades around area's where i expect the market to pivot, and try to catch bigger profits using tape reading skills... Once you hit your first target, the risk/reward becomes skewed in your favor, since your pretty much risking the houses money to make bigger profits...

Essentially, you're winners will be larger than your losers, and therefore you don't have to be under the pressure on being right 90% of the time...
Thats something i always liked about trading

Very simply and succinctly put, but nevertheless, one of the best posts I've read in this forum. It should be mandatory reading for all novice and intermediate traders, not only for what it says, but for what it doesn't say.

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  #7 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Dallas, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, TF
 
Posts: 4 since May 2010
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received

Thanks to all that replied.

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