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Is it worth tracking the ES and NQ? or CL?


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Is it worth tracking the ES and NQ? or CL?

  #1 (permalink)
 
GoldLinx's Avatar
 GoldLinx 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: ES, Stocks
Posts: 23 since Jul 2018
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Hey guys,

The ES hasn't been giving me a ton of opportunities lately. I mean, I am still making trades, but I was doing a lot better when we had those spikes of massive volatility. It seems like the market has been coming into balance lately and my edge is getting dulled (yes I recognize yesterday was a holiday that isn't what I mean lol).

I have had the urge to add another market to my trading, or at least tracking another market to SIM trade for a while and get used to. So, I was wondering if some of the experienced guys can share some insights. I'm not that concerned with trying to make a ton more money right now, I just want to learn in the most useful way.

My style is slightly longer than scalps, but I typically stay in a trade between 5mins and 45 mins. In the ES I'm typically trading 2-3 lots where I take a partial profit at 6-8 ticks and then I let my second lot run anywhere from 16-24 ticks depending on what the particular setup looks like. This strategy has been working well for me, but I want to get more "reps" in, a larger quantity of setups so I have more unique opportunities to practice and get better. I generally find that I enjoy volatility because of the quicker feedback, I'm not a big fan of trades that drag on for hours and hours. It's easier for me psychologically to get 8 Ticks 3 times, VS 30 ticks in one trade for example.

With that being said, I have been exploring the idea of getting into some CL, although everyone's horror stories doesn't inspire much confidence. I'm wondering if this is because CL has a lot of slippage? because I am not a person that moves my stops around, I am very very comfortable taking my stop where I set it, so if I start with 1 lots I don't see how it can hurt me too bad. (But I'm not stubborn and open to being convinced its not for me)

Alternatively, I also have looked at the NQ a bit, but the NQ seems to more or less do the same thing as the ES. So I'm wondering is it worth tracking both NQ and ES? or since I enjoy more volatile markets should I "replace" my ES trading with NQ? I really don't want to be looking at more than 2 markets at a time. And I have about a 22k account (which is why people are scaring me away from CL). But I can keep the lot size down and I am disciplined. I guess I can also trade RTY or something else also, but whatever it is, I want to day trade and maintain the timeframe I use now, I'm not interested in doing any of the micros where I would need to hold overnight to make good money. Any suggestions? ES + CL, ES + NQ, or switch to NQ as my primary for a while? Regardless of the market I will SIM trade it a month before I go live to make sure my edge is still present. What do you guys suggest?

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  #3 (permalink)
 
BougieNT8's Avatar
 BougieNT8 
Toronto Ontario Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ES-NinjaTrader8, TOS
Broker: GFF
Trading: ES CL
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I would suggest adding CL instead of NQ. I know some experienced traders that find CL just as easy if not better than ES. Plus usually CL and ES are not that strongly correlated. NQ seems thinner and a bit whippy sometimes, plus it seems to be stronger correlated to ES

Just my humble opinion, but like I said also info from experienced traders.


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  #4 (permalink)
 
MiniP's Avatar
 MiniP 
USA,USA
Market Wizard
 
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GoldLinx View Post
Hey guys,

The ES hasn't been giving me a ton of opportunities lately. I mean, I am still making trades, but I was doing a lot better when we had those spikes of massive volatility. It seems like the market has been coming into balance lately and my edge is getting dulled (yes I recognize yesterday was a holiday that isn't what I mean lol).

I have had the urge to add another market to my trading, or at least tracking another market to SIM trade for a while and get used to. So, I was wondering if some of the experienced guys can share some insights. I'm not that concerned with trying to make a ton more money right now, I just want to learn in the most useful way.

My style is slightly longer than scalps, but I typically stay in a trade between 5mins and 45 mins. In the ES I'm typically trading 2-3 lots where I take a partial profit at 6-8 ticks and then I let my second lot run anywhere from 16-24 ticks depending on what the particular setup looks like. This strategy has been working well for me, but I want to get more "reps" in, a larger quantity of setups so I have more unique opportunities to practice and get better. I generally find that I enjoy volatility because of the quicker feedback, I'm not a big fan of trades that drag on for hours and hours. It's easier for me psychologically to get 8 Ticks 3 times, VS 30 ticks in one trade for example.

With that being said, I have been exploring the idea of getting into some CL, although everyone's horror stories doesn't inspire much confidence. I'm wondering if this is because CL has a lot of slippage? because I am not a person that moves my stops around, I am very very comfortable taking my stop where I set it, so if I start with 1 lots I don't see how it can hurt me too bad. (But I'm not stubborn and open to being convinced its not for me)

Alternatively, I also have looked at the NQ a bit, but the NQ seems to more or less do the same thing as the ES. So I'm wondering is it worth tracking both NQ and ES? or since I enjoy more volatile markets should I "replace" my ES trading with NQ? I really don't want to be looking at more than 2 markets at a time. And I have about a 22k account (which is why people are scaring me away from CL). But I can keep the lot size down and I am disciplined. I guess I can also trade RTY or something else also, but whatever it is, I want to day trade and maintain the timeframe I use now, I'm not interested in doing any of the micros where I would need to hold overnight to make good money. Any suggestions? ES + CL, ES + NQ, or switch to NQ as my primary for a while? Regardless of the market I will SIM trade it a month before I go live to make sure my edge is still present. What do you guys suggest?

keep doing what your doing and just wait it out, markets are slow right now with all the news and they will get rocking here soon just be patient.. it sucks

-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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  #5 (permalink)
 
snax's Avatar
 snax 
Chicago, IL
Legendary Price Action Student
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
Posts: 2,170 since Feb 2019
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Try to avoid the impulse to "make something happen" by getting impatient and trading for the sake of trading. I just did this earlier this morning because it was very tempting to entertain myself by opening a trade instead of watching the simulator.

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  #6 (permalink)
 
xevanchan's Avatar
 xevanchan 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader 8
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: emini ES/NQ
Posts: 160 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 173
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I was actually just about to ask this, I hope you don't mind if I jack your thread; I trade /ES usually but seriously am considering trading /NQ as well. Just looking for disadvantages/advantages and general opinions. Everything I've found online is mostly subjective, I've got the same issue as OP; too much balance and chop, not enough opportunities.

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  #7 (permalink)
 
snax's Avatar
 snax 
Chicago, IL
Legendary Price Action Student
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
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xevanchan View Post
I was actually just about to ask this, I hope you don't mind if I jack your thread; I trade /ES usually but seriously am considering trading /NQ as well. Just looking for disadvantages/advantages and general opinions. Everything I've found online is mostly subjective, I've got the same issue as OP; too much balance and chop, not enough opportunities.

Hi xevanchan. I have been trading futures much less time than almost everyone here probably but still I want to offer what my limited experience has shown me. I hope it helps and if I am wrong in my understanding please correct me!

I feel that both products have their distinct behavior, due to some different factors:

- Nasdaq 100 has more exposure to fewer stocks - leading often to slightly more narrow extreme feel
- Nasdaq 100 is very tech-heavy in market cap with more volatile component stocks %-wise
- different minimum tick value ($12.50 for /ES vs $5.00 for /NQ) - /NQ has a more volatile, fast-paced behavior with $5/tick.

and I find /NQ to usually feel like an exaggeration of the S&P500 which makes sense.

- /NQ can be quite scary (or awesome if its moving your way and you have wide stop-losses) at opening bell, shooting up and down like a laser wiping out little stop-losses.

- /NQ can be more fun for evening trading. I decided to take a random sample from tonight's market and here's what I found:

evening trading tonight
/NQH9 Range since 5:00PM CST Open 7037.75 - 7024.25 = 13.50 = 54 ticks
54 * 5.00 = $270.00/contract

/ESH9 Range since 5:00PM CST Open 2776.00 - 2771.50 = 4.50 = 18 ticks
18 * 12.50 = $225.00/contract

/NQ has slightly more "pop" during the dead times in general I feel.

Of course this all depends on volume, etc, but I have found these to be the general average feel, /ES is the nucleus, /NQ its slightly-exaggerated, hyper dual.

I hope this helps and doesn't just add noise

Cheers,
snax

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  #8 (permalink)
 
Hulk's Avatar
 Hulk 
Texas, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT, Custom
Trading: Futures, Spreads
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GoldLinx View Post
I am still making trades, but I was doing a lot better when we had those spikes of massive volatility.

...

I have had the urge to add another market to my trading, or at least tracking another market to SIM trade for a while and get used to. So, I was wondering if some of the experienced guys can share some insights. I'm not that concerned with trying to make a ton more money right now, I just want to learn in the most useful way.

...

With that being said, I have been exploring the idea of getting into some CL, although everyone's horror stories doesn't inspire much confidence. I'm wondering if this is because CL has a lot of slippage?

...

Alternatively, I also have looked at the NQ a bit,

...

And I have about a 22k account

...

What do you guys suggest?

With a 22k account and a system that is working on the ES, I see no reason you should increase your risk by adding another market or size to your trading.

Get used to the ups and downs of market volatility and get comfortable with what the market gives you. Basically, dont try to fix something thats not broken.

NQ is a much thinner market than CL. A number of factors influence slippage but the odds of slippage are greater in NQ than in CL. You can get filled on a 100 lot stop order in CL with no slippage or you can get 10c slippage on a 1 lot order, there is no way to anticipate slippage but on average, it should be <= 2c.

I have had an open position in CL 90% of the time during the last 2 years (not day trades). Without getting into the specifics, my advice would be to stick to ES.

Focus on your skills and technique, strengthen your mind to handle the stressful times until you start feeling bored of making money. THEN, add more size to make it a bit more exciting. Repeat as needed.

Basically, if you have a system that works, all you have to work on is increasing your risk appetite. Channel your discipline towards this goal.

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  #9 (permalink)
jigg
singapore
 
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GoldLinx View Post
Hey guys,

My style is slightly longer than scalps, but I typically stay in a trade between 5mins and 45 mins. In the ES I'm typically trading 2-3 lots where I take a partial profit at 6-8 ticks and then I let my second lot run anywhere from 16-24 ticks depending on what the particular setup looks like. This strategy has been working well for me, but I want to get more "reps" in, a larger quantity of setups so I have more unique opportunities to practice and get better. I generally find that I enjoy volatility because of the quicker feedback, I'm not a big fan of trades that drag on for hours and hours. It's easier for me psychologically to get 8 Ticks 3 times, VS 30 ticks in one trade for example.

Why not just increase ES lot size if you are consistently profitable with your current strategy? Its not a bad Idea to have one market you really know well and spend the majority of your time trading. If you are trading the ES the NQ is usually not all that different so I dont see why you cant start spending at least some time there.

if you increase the ES lot size then maybe hedge on NQ to limit risk.

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  #10 (permalink)
FalseProphet
San Diego, CA 92101
 
Posts: 20 since Jan 2019
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GoldLinx View Post
Alternatively, I also have looked at the NQ a bit, but the NQ seems to more or less do the same thing as the ES.

Except the NQ actually moves and gets the move over with one way or another instead of inch-worming along.

I grabbed $300 on the NQ today in a see it trade it moment in ~53 minutes. The trade never went more than $90 against me and this was at the slowest part of the trading day.

YMMV

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Last Updated on February 28, 2019


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