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Where do I go from here?
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Where do I go from here?

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Niles, Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 41 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 68 given, 55 received

Where do I go from here?

Hello all, I am new to this forum. I have been reading on here a lot and man this seems to be the first forum on the entire internet to not be filled with toxicity or jerks! I am making this post because I would like some advice, or perhaps some direction from some more experienced futures traders (and I feel like I won't get ripped apart on here). I am experienced in trading stocks, but got into futures (specifically the ES) at around the start of 2018. I really love not getting up and flying to my computer in the morning, frantically checking all of my scanners to try and find a stock that is moving. It is so nice waking up to futures. I get up, look at multiple time frames on the ES, do some analysis, and then wait . I chose the ES because I figured it would be wise to just focus on one futures contract to begin, and the ES is very liquid. With that said, it is a beast to trade.

I am kind of stuck right now in my trading. I have the psychology of trading down. There is always room for improvement obviously, but I have read a lot of trading psychology books, worked with a psychologist, learned from my mistakes, etc. I have my psychology down pretty well. I can place trades with ease, I have a planned stop before I even enter the trade, I don't get euphoria if I win, and I don't have a breakdown if I lose (I am not using sim, I am using my real money). My problem is having a strategy! It seems like so many traders have the opposite problem. I personally know a guy who had a working strategy for trading stocks, but quit trading altogether because of his fear of losing money.

I have worked tirelessly trying to find a strategy for trading the ES, and I can't find much! I have worked tirelessly in NinjaTrader, programming strategies and backtesting them, and some have been profitable, but not profitable enough that I would deploy my capital upon it. I am not one to use many indicators, but I am willing to try anything. I have tried strategies with different moving averages, bollingers, ADX, and every other indicator under the sun, even those weird ones that no ones heard of! But at the end of the day, I feel like indicators and the like are subjective. I feel like by watching the ES day-in and day-out, I as a human (and I'm sure basically every trader) can get an underlying feeling of how the ES is changing in an almost intuitive/subconscious sort of sense. Have you ever had days where your gut just kind of knows where the ES is heading, and then it actually goes there? Where the ES is just flowing, and you are flowing with it. I have had some of those days. I assume by staring at the same instrument for months, watching the tape, just how it moves, you possibly pick up on some of the nuances subconsciously? Either way, I have considered going from an intuitive style of approach towards the ES, but I just have such a hard time with that because it is not backed up by any statistical evidence, which makes it difficult to place the trade (the worst part is, it usually ends up being a winner!)

I guess I am just kind of stuck right now, and it really kills me because I will never throw in the towel on trading. So I will just sit at my computer for 16 hours a day, programming and backtesting, watching the markets, etc. It's probably unhealthy. Trading is what I am passionate about, this is not just something that I came to believing I could "get rich quick", or looking for a guru to follow. I am completely consumed with trading. I got into it when I was 15 (18 now) and I spend all of my time trying to improve. I even enrolled in homeschooling during my last two high school years, just so I could watch the markets in the morning. I always have my charts running, just to glance at them when I walk by. I only say all of this because whenever I tell people I'm a trader, and tell them my age, they tend to discredit me and laugh at me, which really annoys me considering how hard I work at it. I have no friends that are traders over here in Michigan, and this seemed like the friendliest forum to ask for guidance on.

Thanks everyone,
Cade

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Super Moderator
London UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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spetscom View Post
I have been reading on here a lot and man this seems to be the first forum on the entire internet to not be filled with toxicity or jerks!

[...]

Thanks everyone,
Cade

Hi there Cade, welcome to FIO!

I joined FIO for the same reason as you: all the other forums out there were full of patronizing people so there was little point in getting any value out of it. This one I liked because of the quality of the participants and the high degree of moderation. So I trust you too will find value in it.

By the things you wrote it sounds to me like you have not yet decided what avenue you want to pursue in trading: the two options typical of retail traders are 1) systematic (or algorithmic) trading or 2) discretionary trading.

Have I got that right?

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  #4 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Niles, Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 41 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 68 given, 55 received


xplorer View Post
Hi there Cade, welcome to FIO!

I joined FIO for the same reason as you: all the other forums out there were full of patronizing people so there was little point in getting any value out of it. This one I liked because of the quality of the participants and the high degree of moderation. So I trust you too will find value in it.

By the things you wrote it sounds to me like you have not yet decided what avenue you want to pursue in trading: the two options typical of retail traders are 1) systematic (or algorithmic) trading or 2) discretionary trading.

Have I got that right?

I prefer discretionary trading. I used the strategy builder in NT8 to basically try and test the ideas I had in my head, things I've noticed, from watching the market, and get some statistical feedback on whether or not they were viable long term strategies. I have used all the strategies I programmed in NT8 to basically generate signals, and then it alerts me(it also takes a simulated position). I then use my discretion to decide whether or not to place the trade, as the strategy is about as optimized as I could get it, however it would still take some bad trades (It would take trades based on trend, but sometimes it would take positions during awful chop/consolidation and continuously be switching from long to short and then back to long, losing a ton of money in the interim. I used some ADX values to cut out a lot of the choppy trades, but it would still take some of them.). And while I have been programming for about 6 years, I loved trading before I even knew about creating trading systems. Even if I had an algo that worked 100% of the time, I would still be watching the markets every morning.


Last edited by spetscom; September 21st, 2018 at 04:34 PM.
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  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dallas, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: AAPL, /ES, IWM, SPY Options
 
Posts: 328 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 552 given, 172 received


spetscom View Post
Hello all, I am new to this forum. I have been reading on here a lot and man this seems to be the first forum on the entire internet to not be filled with toxicity or jerks! I am making this post because I would like some advice, or perhaps some direction from some more experienced futures traders (and I feel like I won't get ripped apart on here). I am experienced in trading stocks, but got into futures (specifically the ES) at around the start of 2018. I really love not getting up and flying to my computer in the morning, frantically checking all of my scanners to try and find a stock that is moving. It is so nice waking up to futures. I get up, look at multiple time frames on the ES, do some analysis, and then wait . I chose the ES because I figured it would be wise to just focus on one futures contract to begin, and the ES is very liquid. With that said, it is a beast to trade.

I am kind of stuck right now in my trading. I have the psychology of trading down. There is always room for improvement obviously, but I have read a lot of trading psychology books, worked with a psychologist, learned from my mistakes, etc. I have my psychology down pretty well. I can place trades with ease, I have a planned stop before I even enter the trade, I don't get euphoria if I win, and I don't have a breakdown if I lose (I am not using sim, I am using my real money). My problem is having a strategy! It seems like so many traders have the opposite problem. I personally know a guy who had a working strategy for trading stocks, but quit trading altogether because of his fear of losing money.

I have worked tirelessly trying to find a strategy for trading the ES, and I can't find much! I have worked tirelessly in NinjaTrader, programming strategies and backtesting them, and some have been profitable, but not profitable enough that I would deploy my capital upon it. I am not one to use many indicators, but I am willing to try anything. I have tried strategies with different moving averages, bollingers, ADX, and every other indicator under the sun, even those weird ones that no ones heard of! But at the end of the day, I feel like indicators and the like are subjective. I feel like by watching the ES day-in and day-out, I as a human (and I'm sure basically every trader) can get an underlying feeling of how the ES is changing in an almost intuitive/subconscious sort of sense. Have you ever had days where your gut just kind of knows where the ES is heading, and then it actually goes there? Where the ES is just flowing, and you are flowing with it. I have had some of those days. I assume by staring at the same instrument for months, watching the tape, just how it moves, you possibly pick up on some of the nuances subconsciously? Either way, I have considered going from an intuitive style of approach towards the ES, but I just have such a hard time with that because it is not backed up by any statistical evidence, which makes it difficult to place the trade (the worst part is, it usually ends up being a winner!)

I guess I am just kind of stuck right now, and it really kills me because I will never throw in the towel on trading. So I will just sit at my computer for 16 hours a day, programming and backtesting, watching the markets, etc. It's probably unhealthy. Trading is what I am passionate about, this is not just something that I came to believing I could "get rich quick", or looking for a guru to follow. I am completely consumed with trading. I got into it when I was 15 (18 now) and I spend all of my time trying to improve. I even enrolled in homeschooling during my last two high school years, just so I could watch the markets in the morning. I always have my charts running, just to glance at them when I walk by. I only say all of this because whenever I tell people I'm a trader, and tell them my age, they tend to discredit me and laugh at me, which really annoys me considering how hard I work at it. I have no friends that are traders over here in Michigan, and this seemed like the friendliest forum to ask for guidance on.

Thanks everyone,
Cade

You seem really dedicated and smart for being so young. Go experience college, you might find you enjoy a different field like Medicine or Law, If trading is the way you want to go, why not major in Quantative Finance?

No need to be hold up 16 hours a day watching a screen. Inactivity is the worst thing for your health unfortunately I see it a lot with programmers.

Unless you have an inheritance or your parents are giving you funds to trade, are capitalized enough to trade futures?

Just things to consider, I hope the best for you

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #6 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Niles, Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 41 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 68 given, 55 received


blb014 View Post
You seem really dedicated and smart for being so young. Go experience college, you might find you enjoy a different field like Medicine or Law, If trading is the way you want to go, why not major in Quantative Finance?

No need to be hold up 16 hours a day watching a screen. Inactivity is the worst thing for your health unfortunately I see it a lot with programmers.

Unless you have an inheritance or your parents are giving you funds to trade, are capitalized enough to trade futures?

Just things to consider, I hope the best for you

I have experienced college (My highschool offers to pay for college while you're enrolled, if you can test into the college. I passed the tests and so I got to go to college for free during my highschool years) and it just isn't my cup of tea. I do have other things in my life besides trading, I am currently organizing and helping a local restaurant open (They needed help setting up a coffee bar, and I am passionate about coffee. I basically got handed a job being the cafe manager, which was a big blessing. The business will be open in a few weeks, and I'll be trading in the morning, and making espresso in the evening.) As for funds, it is a bit of a weird situation. I do have a small account for trading futures, it is essentially money I plan on losing (for the sake of learning, not reckless gambling). I'll also be dumping money into my account from working at the coffee shop. Now, I will be getting access to a large amount of funds in the near future. My stepdad owned a business that he just recently sold, and he's offering to give me a large chunk of change to trade if I can prove that I can be consistent. He's not a blind believer in anything, and he wants to see me have a steady equity curve before he hands me over some money. Which I completely understand. He is an entrepreneur, and so he understands that I'm not going to just get into futures and instantly hit it out of the park and make a killing. My parents support me in my trading, and so I kind of have a great opportunity. I can trade without overhead besides the typical trading related fees, and I'm just really blessed to be in the situation that I am in now.

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  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dallas, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: AAPL, /ES, IWM, SPY Options
 
Posts: 328 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 552 given, 172 received


spetscom View Post
I have experienced college (My highschool offers to pay for college while you're enrolled, if you can test into the college. I passed the tests and so I got to go to college for free during my highschool years) and it just isn't my cup of tea. I do have other things in my life besides trading, I am currently organizing and helping a local restaurant open (They needed help setting up a coffee bar, and I am passionate about coffee. I basically got handed a job being the cafe manager, which was a big blessing. The business will be open in a few weeks, and I'll be trading in the morning, and making espresso in the evening.) As for funds, it is a bit of a weird situation. I do have a small account for trading futures, it is essentially money I plan on losing (for the sake of learning, not reckless gambling). I'll also be dumping money into my account from working at the coffee shop. Now, I will be getting access to a large amount of funds in the near future. My stepdad owned a business that he just recently sold, and he's offering to give me a large chunk of change to trade if I can prove that I can be consistent. He's not a blind believer in anything, and he wants to see me have a steady equity curve before he hands me over some money. Which I completely understand. He is an entrepreneur, and so he understands that I'm not going to just get into futures and instantly hit it out of the park and make a killing. My parents support me in my trading, and so I kind of have a great opportunity. I can trade without overhead besides the typical trading related fees, and I'm just really blessed to be in the situation that I am in now.


That could be really good thing. Not having the emotional ties to money that older people that have worked for decades, it took me 15 years or so of working to have enough money to invest and trade. That is a plus. Good Luck

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #8 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Amsterdam Netherlands
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 9 since Jul 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 6 received

If I were you I would find the cheapest products/strategy/.. to trade, so you can get as much experience as possible for the money. The more experience the better basically and the cheaper it is the more you can get of it. And just keep improving of course.

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  #9 (permalink)
10 out of 10
Sacramento, CA
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: None
Broker/Data: ADM and Sierra Charts
Favorite Futures: ES, CL
 
eudamonia's Avatar
 
Posts: 314 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 307 given, 439 received

Since it seems like you've got a pretty good head on your shoulders I'll chime in here with my 2 cents.

Read a few of the accounts of the pros here on Futures.io. Start with page 121 of Big Mike's journal:

https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/1415-big-mike-s-day-trading-method-advice-121.html

This thread was the starting point for my own turning point in trading. The number one piece of advice (that most people won't follow) is to swing trade. That is where the big money is made and it requires more than $5k in your account. Other things that may help you:

1) There are no certainties, no perfect indicator. Get 90% of that stuff off the screen. Use some simple MAs or your eyes and look at the longer timeframes (daily and weekly). The big question I ask myself every day is - are we in a trend or a range? A 5 year old should be able to determine this just by looking. If you can't figure it out then don't trade that day;

2) Hold your winners significantly longer than your losers (see above regarding swing trading). Also, you must add to your winners. Read Mike's thread or TigerTrader's threads for more details on how to do that;

3) Setup a journal and post it here;

4) Get detailed stats - excel or TraderVue;

5) Read about deliberate practice (read Enhancing Trading Performance by Dr. Brett Steenbarger) and use those tools to continue to hone your edge.

Good luck!

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  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Niles, Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 41 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 68 given, 55 received


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Last edited by spetscom; September 21st, 2018 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Oops
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