NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





How many contracts influence price movement?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Devil Man with 1 posts (1 thanks)
    2. looks_two mattz with 1 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 xiaosi with 1 posts (2 thanks)
    4. looks_4 TyrantBoy with 1 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one xiaosi with 2 thanks per post
    2. looks_two tpredictor with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 mattz with 1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Devil Man with 1 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 1,898 views
    2. thumb_up 6 thanks given
    3. group 6 followers
    1. forum 6 posts
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




 
Search this Thread

How many contracts influence price movement?

  #1 (permalink)
TyrantBoy
Fort Smith, AR/USA
 
Posts: 4 since Mar 2017
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 0

Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
New Micros: Ultra 10-Year & Ultra T-Bond -- Live Now
Treasury Notes and Bonds
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
Are there any eval firms that allow you to sink to your …
Traders Hideout
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Get funded firms 2023/2024 - Any recommendations or word …
61 thanks
Funded Trader platforms
39 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
26 thanks
Battlestations: Show us your trading desks!
26 thanks
The Program
18 thanks
  #3 (permalink)
 
xiaosi's Avatar
 xiaosi 
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: JIGSAW/SIERRA CHART
Broker: MacQuarie Futures/AMP Clearing/CQG
Trading: HHI, HSI, FDAX
Posts: 502 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 448
Thanks Received: 535



TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

Depends on many factors, number one being liquidity. If you hit the bid and there is an iceberg or large bid there then you might need deep a thousand contracts on the ES. On the other hand a 5 lot might sweep the bid on GC or CL at times.

Your answer truly resides in the hours of screen time that awaits you

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4 (permalink)
 
Devil Man's Avatar
 Devil Man 
Fort Lauderdale
Legendary / Stochastic Calculus is not your friend
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninjatrader, Python API
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES,NQ,CL
Posts: 849 since Oct 2009
Thanks Given: 3,399
Thanks Received: 1,534


TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

I used to trade 50 contracts of Crude kind of regularly during nymex rth....never so much as even burped the price!

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #5 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Trading: es
Posts: 644 since Nov 2011

First, it should be noted that manipulation is illegal. I'm not any expert on this but based on public sources then the following are some methods of manipulation. And, to answer your question: no you won't manipulate the market with so few lots.

1. Buying or selling a ton of contracts immediately before the close. This may be done when certain exchange rates/prices are set based on closing prices.
2. Layering or spoofing. This involves adding fake liquidity to the book with specific order types to make it appear that liquidity exist. The orders are pulled before they can be executed against and the trader executes on the opposite side. This has more impact in low liquidity or low low volume markets.
3. Maybe not illegal but something the bigs do is if prices are rising too fast then they might blast in a ton of sell of orders in order to scare out or run out the smaller speculator and then they buy them all back and more.
4. Again selling or buying a ton of orders at specific inflection points that might lead to more buying or selling. Any action that causes disorderly market conduct is likely against the rules.
5. Attempting to corner a market by buying up all available contracts for purpose to run it up typically. This has only happened in commodities. Rules are designed to prevent this from happening.
6. Wash trading. This is also prohibited.. You create two accounts. You buy and sell to yourself. Not sure really how you'd make any money doing this but you could perhaps manipulate the trade volume.
7. If you can represent a major portion of the passive liquidity, i.e. the limit orders, you might manipulate the market by driving it down with selling and waiting for some small traders to short and then you just pull the bids above the market. This would work better in lower liquidity periods/times as well.

The best markets for manipulating these days would probably be something like bitcoin or related which have low market caps, less regulation, etc. But, you'll need a lot of money to corner any such market and previous attempts have often not ended well, in any regards. In general, you will need to track the volume and you'll need to execute above average volume. Notice in general, traders do not want to influence price because any movement or whatever would be a cost in the form of slippage. It would only be useful thus as specific times, inflection points, etc.


TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.


Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)
 
mattz's Avatar
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 2,493 since Sep 2010
Thanks Given: 2,440
Thanks Received: 3,789


TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

There are quantity limits that that are set by the CFTC and need to be reported once traded or exceeded.
This is to avoid price manipulation. In my opinion, most retail traders can not approach these levels due to capitalization.

Thank you,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #7 (permalink)
k7ler
CONSTANTINE/ALGERIA (DZ)
 
Posts: 50 since Aug 2015
Thanks Given: 146
Thanks Received: 7

Very good question everything depends on the market and at what time you execute your orders if you execute your orders has certain configuration ca can make a price overflow and win ticks but the problem I do not think the traders can manipulate the prices only the big box Hedge fund or bank institutionnele can pass large contract and u do not think that trades go risk 100 contract contract 100 contract ca requires a big big capitalization of money also the algo predator also are very dangerous.....: Pcguru:

Reply With Quote




Last Updated on June 2, 2017


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts