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How many contracts influence price movement?
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How many contracts influence price movement?

  #1 (permalink)
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How many contracts influence price movement?

Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

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TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

Depends on many factors, number one being liquidity. If you hit the bid and there is an iceberg or large bid there then you might need deep a thousand contracts on the ES. On the other hand a 5 lot might sweep the bid on GC or CL at times.

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TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

I used to trade 50 contracts of Crude kind of regularly during nymex rth....never so much as even burped the price!

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  #5 (permalink)
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First, it should be noted that manipulation is illegal. I'm not any expert on this but based on public sources then the following are some methods of manipulation. And, to answer your question: no you won't manipulate the market with so few lots.

1. Buying or selling a ton of contracts immediately before the close. This may be done when certain exchange rates/prices are set based on closing prices.
2. Layering or spoofing. This involves adding fake liquidity to the book with specific order types to make it appear that liquidity exist. The orders are pulled before they can be executed against and the trader executes on the opposite side. This has more impact in low liquidity or low low volume markets.
3. Maybe not illegal but something the bigs do is if prices are rising too fast then they might blast in a ton of sell of orders in order to scare out or run out the smaller speculator and then they buy them all back and more.
4. Again selling or buying a ton of orders at specific inflection points that might lead to more buying or selling. Any action that causes disorderly market conduct is likely against the rules.
5. Attempting to corner a market by buying up all available contracts for purpose to run it up typically. This has only happened in commodities. Rules are designed to prevent this from happening.
6. Wash trading. This is also prohibited.. You create two accounts. You buy and sell to yourself. Not sure really how you'd make any money doing this but you could perhaps manipulate the trade volume.
7. If you can represent a major portion of the passive liquidity, i.e. the limit orders, you might manipulate the market by driving it down with selling and waiting for some small traders to short and then you just pull the bids above the market. This would work better in lower liquidity periods/times as well.

The best markets for manipulating these days would probably be something like bitcoin or related which have low market caps, less regulation, etc. But, you'll need a lot of money to corner any such market and previous attempts have often not ended well, in any regards. In general, you will need to track the volume and you'll need to execute above average volume. Notice in general, traders do not want to influence price because any movement or whatever would be a cost in the form of slippage. It would only be useful thus as specific times, inflection points, etc.


TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.



Last edited by tpredictor; June 2nd, 2017 at 12:02 AM.
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TyrantBoy View Post
Let's say you have a lot of money. You want to manipulate the market by buying like 10-20 contracts at once. How much does the price move or any movement at all on a liquid market like /GC, /ES, /CL, etc.

There are quantity limits that that are set by the CFTC and need to be reported once traded or exceeded.
This is to avoid price manipulation. In my opinion, most retail traders can not approach these levels due to capitalization.

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Very good question everything depends on the market and at what time you execute your orders if you execute your orders has certain configuration ca can make a price overflow and win ticks but the problem I do not think the traders can manipulate the prices only the big box Hedge fund or bank institutionnele can pass large contract and u do not think that trades go risk 100 contract contract 100 contract ca requires a big big capitalization of money also the algo predator also are very dangerous.....: Pcguru:

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