Consistent Loser Looking for Trading Buddy to Reverse my Trades - Emini Index Futures Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Consistent Loser Looking for Trading Buddy to Reverse my Trades
Updated: Views / Replies:2,030 / 25
Created: by jeremymgp Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Consistent Loser Looking for Trading Buddy to Reverse my Trades

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Busan
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Metatrader
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Consistent Loser Looking for Trading Buddy to Reverse my Trades

Hi,

Am a longterm consistent loser and recently have been experimenting with fading my own psychology, I saw a thread where one trader traded a losing system and the other reversed them at around 3x more and it worked well for them.

If I fade my own trades of course I know there is another account reversing them so just think about that and I end up losing again.
However:
- if there is a trader in the background separately reversing trades with no reverse directly on my system
- and if I even trade my own small live account not just a demo.

There is a possibility I could happily continue to trade like a loser and it work out. I trade NQ in the morning session, if anyone has any interest in this let me know.

Am also aware many have likely considered doing this before, and that trade management, the market itself and psychology mean reversing would still not work. Even so, I have been experimenting for some time, and while I cannot reverse myself and have even tried hiring people to reverse myself for me, if someone in the background can simply watch my account, act reasonably quickly and especially avoid communicating with me while trading so after a certain time I don't even know for sure if they are there or not, I believe it may yet be possible to continue trading as a loser and profit from it. Any interest PM or write here thanks,

Jeremy


Last edited by jeremymgp; January 12th, 2017 at 09:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to jeremymgp for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
North Carolina
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 364 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 111 given, 353 received


I really think you are misguided in this venture. All the great discretionary traders simply know when they have an average, good, or great trade. Stated another way, their confidence correlates, has a factual basis, in reality (with obviously a random component!). There's no point in trading discretionary if this weren't so. Think about it! If you can't develop it then you should trade systems.

This ability to feel or predict the market is also how some traders can trade seemingly with very low win ratios but still do well. They don't lose that much on the bad trades because they are proportionally sized very small. They position size dynamically and size up their best trades (within limits of course!). And, that's also yet-another-reason why it's difficult to make money with a small account: because even the average trades are overleveraged.

There are a few things you can do that might turn things around for you beyond developing a working system:

1. Take a measure of your temperament every morning.
2. Try to score every trade on a score from 4 to 10 before and after the trade. Are you taking a lot of <5 trades ? Do you come up with the same numbers? Maybe you can find a way to recognize or develop the ability over time. If you can't develop such ability to weight your trades then possibly trying a rules based approach would help. In that case, you just find 2-3 things to score them based on.
3. Another option you can try if the above doesn't work is you to hedge yourself. Basically, you have to force yourself to trade both long and short at the same time. One can think of it as keeping a memory of your trades. Maybe there is some value in your losing trades that you are not capturing, i.e. due to stop runs or poor trade placement.

The magic/profit comes from the "total sequence". This is a hypothetical example of what it might look like:

A. Anticipating a bullish trend day, get long.
B. Market runs against me to the sell side.
C. Anticipating a short term bearish run or simply because risk is too great reverse from long to short or go flat. But watch the market. (Whether you go flat or short is going to be based on your confidence or rules.)
D. As soon as we naturally close out the short/flat, we reverse back to long and reestablish the original position.

Typically one side is scalping and the other is a longer term hold. An alternative to having to close and open positions would be to simply trade 2 correlated instruments. Pick one to trade short throughout the day and the other to trade long.

4. An alternative to the above might be to develop your own gray box methods. This is a topic of high interest to me. But, let's imagine the most simple method where you make your trade bias decision as normal but only enter your trade based on a pullback to some recent measure of support/resistance. You might miss out on more good trades but your trade positioning will be better.

5. Consider also that you may simply have not put in the work to develop the skills required to really trade. You might also have a very unfounded impression of the difficulty of trading. If you haven't put in at least 3 to 6 60 hour weeks exclusively dedicated to your craft, real work, then you really haven't even did the groundwork. Example, if you use technical analysis then that would be 60 hour weeks of really studying various technical methods. You don't have to use quantitative analysis but it makes the work go faster. That's required to develop some skill in analysis but it won't be enough to put it all together unless you are trading higher time frames, like swing trading.


Last edited by tpredictor; January 12th, 2017 at 08:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to tpredictor for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Busan
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Metatrader
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Hi tpredictor,

Great response thanks, am sure you're quite right in the misguidedness of it all, just happen to think can make it work so putting it out there, agree completely working on my own discretionary trading is the answer really. The feel for the market is again something I likely have even, it's how we respond to that reaction to the markets, most people use their reaction to the markets to lose possibly.

Hedging idea is also great will give it a try, also the gray box and solid work advice all really good, am pushing my psychology as how we respond to the price and ourselves does seem to be at the core of trading, thanks again

Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Aurora, Il USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: futures
 
kbit's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,872 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 3,301 given, 3,331 received

Your honesty is refreshing. You need to keep experimenting(think paper trade) with some other methodology.
I didn't read the posts preceding mine but I would recommend if nothing else get a good understanding of price action and support and resistance. And MOST important what to do around s/r levels...things/actions to look for.
With time and/or going over charts, learn how the markets you trade behave around identified levels.

Look for patterns you yourself will be able to recognize that may increase your odds. That doesn't mean learn all the head and shoulder stuff and flying bats or whatever...just stuff that clicks in your head while you are going over charts.

Just remember sim/paper trading costs you nothing. Keep trying various things until you find something that works for you. Though you should remain adaptable because things periodically change and may not work forever...In the end as I previously mentioned price action is the most reliable, not fancy indicators with squiggly lines.

As a final note, don't be afraid to use different bar types or for that matter styles of charts.

Reply With Quote
 
  #6 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Busan
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Metatrader
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Hi kbit,

Thanks for the response and encouragement, agree with experimenting with another methodology you're right. At the same time, a good trader can make money from any moving average crosses and traders with poor psychology will lose whatever the methodology. I'm convinced psychology is everything. A few things am finding really are true:

- newbie traders trade the market perfectly. It's not they can't trade and don't know the markets, they lose with such consistency it's astonishing there is clearly some knowledge there that is worth investigating. What they don't know is what to do with that information, they use it in a way that is governed by emotion and so lose every time.

- traders have two minds. their high mental response, and their possibly more physiological emotional response. it is the battle between these two that is trading. It is a battle between the spiritual and physical even.

- rule based trading and having "an edge" with a setup I've found are often vague at best. The real reason rule-based systems work for discretionary traders is that the rules provide a framework for controlling your emotional response, and learning from your higher mental response which can respond to the markets very well.

- trading a demo account and a live one at the same time can help. Not to reverse each other, both in the same direction. I am convinced again there are two mindsets, one where you know you are trading to win on an account and one where you are trading to lose. These days I can literally feel the switch - where I regain control of myself and I know I am trading again to actually profit and in control, or am trading according to emotion and will lose, if you play around with reversing yourself for long enough the two states are distinct.

- A very recent discovery just yesterday. You can choose simply not to get emotional. Whenever emotional responses start kicking in, when you realize it just tell yourself "no emotion" and take a breath. You don't need to feel this, this one trade doesn't matter, and just do what the charts are already telling you. You know what the price is doing now, it's just responding to it logically and dispassionately, rather than emotionally. This looks to be exceptionally useful, you can make this choice.

Hope this helps people, this may be an unusual approach, but for me this is infinitely more rewarding than wiggly indicator lines, and this little act of confessionalism is in itself possibly something many traders could benefit from. I agree the honesty is refreshing, when you get truly, horrendously honest with your own trading performance and work through that, good things happen. Cheers,

Jeremy


Last edited by jeremymgp; January 14th, 2017 at 02:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to jeremymgp for this post:
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
knoxville tennessee usa
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker/Data: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Favorite Futures: ym
 
Posts: 417 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 86 given, 173 received

i have tried a mentor

i have screened shared with some very good traders that were green most days...none of them i could use there method..here is why... in the end none used a hard set of rules for entry or management..that is the whole in the class of all the trading folks i have look at...and i seen a lot. by the tempo and what the market is not doing they can internalize that info and act on it. to put it in a better example it is like play music ... if you have herd or in there case seen that song many times you know when there is something off key... what ever method is used ..it is necessary to spend a lot of time on it...after you have internalize it..you see when it works but far more important. when it does not work..most trader do not go that way..they just keep looking..for something that works all the time // a lock .

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to forgiven for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Omer עומר / Israel י
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Proprietary,
Broker/Data: Ninjabrokerage/IQfeed + Synthetic datafeed
Favorite Futures: 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, ES, NQ, YM, AEX, CL, NG, ZB, ZN, ZC, ZS, GC
 
rleplae's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,414 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 1,665 given, 3,581 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

What is your edge ?
If you take a trade long or short, what is it based on ?
and what do your statistics look like ?

Once you have a system that works, and that feels OK, stick to it,
unless you feel the market is completely changing
but in general, a working system, works for some time

I agree with @kbit,
return to paper trading,
you need to be green on paper first

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to rleplae for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Los Angeles, California Republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES, Mongolian Horse Futures
 
srgtroy's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,456 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 1,009 given, 2,237 received

@tturner86 and I have discussed this concept in the past, and we refer to it as the George Costanza method, from the Sienfeld episode where George realizes everything he does is wrong and so he does the exact opposite.



To that effect, the best way to trade this method is to simply create an 'inverse' price chart and trade it.

Let us know how it goes...

p.s. -- the interesting thing is that theoretically, if you start to realize you are consistently losing with this method, then just flip the chart back to normal

Know The Rules Well So You Can Break Them Effectively
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to srgtroy for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Favorite Futures: JDAM
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,765 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 9,845 given, 11,100 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



srgtroy View Post
@tturner86 and I have discussed this concept in the past, and we refer to it as the George Costanza method, from the Sienfeld episode where George realizes everything he does is wrong and so he does the exact opposite.



To that effect, the best way to trade this method is to simply create an 'inverse' price chart and trade it.

Let us know how it goes...

p.s. -- the interesting thing is that theoretically, if you start to realize you are consistently losing with this method, then just flip the chart back to normal


Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > Consistent Loser Looking for Trading Buddy to Reverse my Trades

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Dec 7

Linda Bradford Raschke: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
is having a trading buddy/s a good idea anniebee321 Psychology and Money Management 14 July 22nd, 2017 11:40 AM
Trading Buddy in Silicon Valley wangwang Currency Futures 2 March 30th, 2016 03:15 PM
CL Trading Buddy Patrick S Commodities Futures Trading 11 August 28th, 2012 10:26 PM
Is Trading a Loser's game? bijeremiad Traders Hideout 6 August 18th, 2012 11:22 AM
If it's so easy to loose money, why don't you reverse your trades ? MetalTrade Psychology and Money Management 27 October 19th, 2010 05:58 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-11-19 in 0.15 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 23.20.129.162