alternatives to cme products with their obscene commissions? - Emini Index Futures Trading | futures.io
futures io futures trading


alternatives to cme products with their obscene commissions?
Started: by maggtrading Views / Replies:1,654 / 22
Last Reply: Attachments:3

Welcome to futures io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 3  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

alternatives to cme products with their obscene commissions?

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
méxico df, méxico
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts
Broker/Data: demo so far
Favorite Futures: stocks, @nq, @es
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 114 given, 21 received

alternatives to cme products with their obscene commissions?

hello everyone.


i have been doing some research on index futures contracts other than the most traditional cme products with their obscene commissions structure. i have learned there exist a number of very attractive alternatives to cme products like the fdax, the fdxm (i undertand both trade in eurex), as well as asian indices mini futures contracts like those of the nikkei, hang seng and kospi indices (jnm ose, nke ose, hsi hkfe, kospi200? krx).


i would want to know which brokerages associated with ninjatrader let clients trade these futures contracts (as well as any other futures contracts i may have left out of that list), and the costs associated with these products like data fees, commissions and so on. also, if I wanted to find the information for daily depth of market / liquidity, margin costs, average spreads, average volatility / range (atr) and available brokerages / platforms for as many indices futures contracts in the world as was possible to carry out an exhaustive, in depth comparison, where could I find this data?


thanks in advance, regards.

Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Houston TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: XTrader
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
Posts: 1,766 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 1,519 given, 2,645 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


Not sure many people would consider a $1.14 commission on a $108k ES contract obscene but your right DAX is cheaper (€0.50) and their contract is bigger (€253k).

Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Slovakia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 85 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 13 given, 46 received


maggtrading View Post
hello everyone.


i have been doing some research on index futures contracts other than the most traditional cme products with their obscene commissions structure. i have learned there exist a number of very attractive alternatives to cme products like the fdax, the fdxm (i undertand both trade in eurex), as well as asian indices mini futures contracts like those of the nikkei, hang seng and kospi indices (jnm ose, nke ose, hsi hkfe, kospi200? krx).


i would want to know which brokerages associated with ninjatrader let clients trade these futures contracts (as well as any other futures contracts i may have left out of that list), and the costs associated with these products like data fees, commissions and so on. also, if I wanted to find the information for daily depth of market / liquidity, margin costs, average spreads, average volatility / range (atr) and available brokerages / platforms for as many indices futures contracts in the world as was possible to carry out an exhaustive, in depth comparison, where could I find this data?


thanks in advance, regards.

INTERACTIVEBROKERS

Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
méxico df, méxico
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts
Broker/Data: demo so far
Favorite Futures: stocks, @nq, @es
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 114 given, 21 received

Futures Edge on FIO

What value do you place on the webinars on FIO?

 

SMCJB View Post
Not sure many people would consider a $1.14 commission on a $108k ES contract obscene but your right DAX is cheaper (€0.50) and their contract is bigger (€253k).



well, for the most heavily traded cme products (es, nq) total commissions of $5 usd per round trip used to be common. i understand cme still has even more expensive products (usd denominated nikkei and others). compare that to the commissions paid if trading the most expensive stock i know of: the brk.a, if i'm not mistaken, it now has a tick size of 1c, and even in the worst case scenario, total commissions for a round trip trade would never be greater than 50c per share. for me, really anything above 10c in total commissions for cme products would be unjustifiable, that's why i am looking for better alternatives elsewhere.


@Obelixtrader , thanks. i will write an email to interactive brokers to learn what european / asian futures contracts they have available.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to maggtrading for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
Hamburg Germany
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Tradestation, Multicharts.NET, NinjaTrader, MetaTrader
Broker/Data: DTN IQ
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 1,261 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 201 given, 713 received

maggtrading,

I might be wrong here and it depends on the volume you make of course, but you will likely end up paying somewhere between $4 and $5 per roundtrip on almost every futures trade (round turn; for the common products and with regular fees and commissions i.e. not being a member or leasing a seat). The CME or any other exchange for that matter don't charge that amount in total, it usually consists of your broker's fee, the exchange and clearing fees.

@mattz can surely offer more sound information on that matter.

Regards,

ABCTG


maggtrading View Post
well, for the most heavily traded cme products (es, nq) total commissions of $5 usd per round trip used to be common. i understand cme still has even more expensive products (usd denominated nikkei and others). compare that to the commissions paid if trading the most expensive stock i know of: the brk.a, if i'm not mistaken, it now has a tick size of 1c, and even in the worst case scenario, total commissions for a round trip trade would never be greater than 50c per share. for me, really anything above 10c in total commissions for cme products would be unjustifiable, that's why i am looking for better alternatives elsewhere.


@Obelixtrader , thanks. i will write an email to interactive brokers to learn what european / asian futures contracts they have available.


Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,876 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,795 given, 2,527 received


ABCTG View Post
maggtrading,

I might be wrong here and it depends on the volume you make of course, but you will likely end up paying somewhere between $4 and $5 per roundtrip on almost every futures trade (round turn; for the common products and with regular fees and commissions i.e. not being a member or leasing a seat). The CME or any other exchange for that matter don't charge that amount in total, it usually consists of your broker's fee, the exchange and clearing fees.

@mattz can surely offer more sound information on that matter.

Regards,

ABCTG

@ABCTG You are 100% right in terms of your pricing as far as the range on ES and NQ as total pricing, all in,
No one get 10 cents commissions unless they are really heavy traders and their average win may be less than a tick on a given instrument. Also, these kind of pricing also accompanied by lower CME fees due to memberships, etc.

I still find that many do not know the exact commission they pay. Namely, they do not know the commissions part, routing, exchange, etc. The components are important because they allow you to choose the platform accordingly and the broker.

Thanks,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Houston TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: XTrader
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
Posts: 1,766 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 1,519 given, 2,645 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

I think he's arguing for 10c in "total commissions" ie including exchange fees .... not clearing!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,876 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,795 given, 2,527 received


SMCJB View Post
I think he's arguing for 10c in "total commissions" ie including exchange fees .... not clearing!

Then I suggest that he/she looks at the CME rates on ES under membership and no membership...just to realize that the exchange that takes at times up to 400% or more than the broker in the overall rate.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
Reply With Quote
 
  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
méxico df, méxico
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts
Broker/Data: demo so far
Favorite Futures: stocks, @nq, @es
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 114 given, 21 received


well, thanks everyone for your participation.


i do know that the total commissions a retail trader pays are determined by what the exchange, the broker, and other institutions take.


still, the point i make is that futures contracts commissions are ridiculously high, and cme's are the worst of all. there's no justification for making retail traders pay anything above 10c round trip per trade; keep in mind that to the exchange and the brokers futures contracts trades are nothing but binary values changing back and forth in their databases, they have zero variable costs per trade. the fact of the matter is that right now futures exchanges get away with the kind of commissions structures they have in place simply because they have monopolistic power as there exists virtually no competition. for example, in méxico, there still are local equities brokers who will charge retail investors commissions of 1% of the value of their trade every time, no matter what. in the usa, back in the day, commissions and everything else were also far worse for all instruments. exchanges used to have 25c increments so investors had huge slippage going against them every time and commissions also used to be excessive until competition and regulation reined in the abuse at least when it comes to equities.

i want to do what i can to oppose the abusive practices of cme myself, and trading exclusively other exchanges' products seems to me to be an excellent strategy. from the research i have done, total commissions for the fdxm and other eurex products can be between 3 and 4 usd, which is between 1 and a full 2 usd lower than comparable cme mini products. 2 usd per round trip over a number of trades a day and over multiple contracts adds up to a lot of money over time, and as i argued there's really no justification to hand over a premium to cme and associated brokers when they would still be making a killing even at 5c per contract for each of them.


i still haven't been able to find the commissions and conditions for futures contracts for the jnm ose, nke ose, hsi hkfe and kospi krx, but i will definitely look into those options too, and wouldn't be surprised in the least if costs and commissions were also significantly lower compared to cme's products.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > alternatives to cme products with their obscene commissions?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

Spring Grains Outlook w/Sean Lusk @ Walsh Trading

Elite only

FIO Video Journal Challenge featuring NinjaTrader ($2,000+ of prizes)

April

Process above all else w/Anthony Crudele @ Futures Radio Show

Elite only

Machine Learning - Quantitative Trading w/Martin Froehler @ Quantiacs

Elite only

Market Dynamics w/Peter Davies @ Jigsaw Trading

Elite only

Ask Me Anything w/Patrick Rooney @ Trading Technologies

Apr 18

Ask Me Anything w/FuturesTrader71

Apr 19

Machine Learning w/Kris Longmore

Elite only

Market Analysis w/Dave Forss

Apr 25

Introducing iSystems with Stage 5 Trading

Apr 27
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alternatives for illiquid bonds bondsurya401 Bonds and Interest Rates Trading 1 June 16th, 2016 02:45 PM
Alternatives to Investtech? neverlose Vendors and Product Reviews 1 October 30th, 2013 07:45 AM
CME lowers margins 12% on many products Big Mike Traders Hideout 1 September 20th, 2012 06:51 PM
Alternatives to the ES pricestudent Emini Index Futures Trading 13 August 17th, 2012 04:51 AM
Alternatives to Ninja... MXASJ NinjaTrader 3 March 1st, 2011 07:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:34 AM.

no new posts
Page generated 2017-03-29 in 0.15 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 184.73.55.221