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Mini FDAX - FDXM from Eurex
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Mini FDAX - FDXM from Eurex

  #81 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
Belgium
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader Brokerage, CQG
Favorite Futures: FDAX, FDXM ...maybe
 
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jtrade View Post
@podski & others : are any of you actually trading FDXM live and anyone through Ninja's own brokerage (formerly Mirus) ?

I like the idea of a mini as it makes 3 lot scaling much more manageable size-wise, as long as it's not like CL vs QM (where it is much better to trade CL).

The biggest problem with FDAX is that up until 3 or 4 years ago the spread was pretty stable at 1 - 2 ticks, but these days it often blips momentarily open to 3, 4 or even 5 ticks, I suppose as a result of much lower volume.

I looked at the Ger 30 CFD, but it charts differently, has a tiny unit value & is back in unregulated territory.


Yes. I am.

The big, really big advantage of the FDXM is that it's small. As you say, you can manage your risk appropriately. Let's talk about what that means for me in a minute.

There are some peculiarities about it however. You will need to decide yourself whether they are material.

1. The FDAX carries the big stick. By this I mean that the price movements on the big instrument dictate the precise movements of the Mini. This has two main effects
a. Market makers arbitrage between the FDAX and th FDXM and the price of the mini can move 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 POINTS before it actually trades. If you have a stop order the slippage can be large. Your order will not become a market order until the mini actually trades. Limit orders will get filled but stops will be loose.

b. The highs and lows are not precise. By this I mean that the highs and lows on the FDAX have a much greater significance. If you don't take this into account you can have your stops a bit too tight or your breakouts can be fakeouts a bit more than usual.
2. The pre and post market is very very thin, especially the pre market.

OK. So why do I trade it ?

Simply put, you can move up a timeframe with the smaller instrument.

None of the above peculiar behaviour is really important if you are trading a trend and holding through multiple pullbacks.

In summary, I would say that it is certainly suitable for trading on higher timeframes.

My experience is that if you are worried about a tick or two, then neither this nor the FDAX is for you. The DAX moves often well over 150 points per day, you can't judge it too closely.

P

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  #82 (permalink)
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podski View Post
Yes. I am.

The big, really big advantage of the FDXM is that it's small. As you say, you can manage your risk appropriately. Let's talk about what that means for me in a minute.

There are some peculiarities about it however. You will need to decide yourself whether they are material.

1. The FDAX carries the big stick. By this I mean that the price movements on the big instrument dictate the precise movements of the Mini. This has two main effects
a. Market makers arbitrage between the FDAX and th FDXM and the price of the mini can move 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 POINTS before it actually trades. If you have a stop order the slippage can be large. Your order will not become a market order until the mini actually trades. Limit orders will get filled but stops will be loose.

b. The highs and lows are not precise. By this I mean that the highs and lows on the FDAX have a much greater significance. If you don't take this into account you can have your stops a bit too tight or your breakouts can be fakeouts a bit more than usual.
2. The pre and post market is very very thin, especially the pre market.

OK. So why do I trade it ?

Simply put, you can move up a timeframe with the smaller instrument.

None of the above peculiar behaviour is really important if you are trading a trend and holding through multiple pullbacks.

In summary, I would say that it is certainly suitable for trading on higher timeframes.

My experience is that if you are worried about a tick or two, then neither this nor the FDAX is for you. The DAX moves often well over 150 points per day, you can't judge it too closely.

P

Very helpful reply, thanks, podski.

It's an interesting question : trade 2 x FDAX @ $5k margin / $50 tick (I mean Euros, but only have $ on keyboard) or the equivalent 5 x FGBL for usually much less range, but a slower, more stable ride & MUCH thicker market (both of which I have done)... or maybe go up a timeframe as you suggest with 3 x FDXM, less margin, more swing.

I will set it up and consider : at the end of the day it comes down to whichever approach produces enough consistent weekly profit with the least amount of risk, screentime & stress.

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  #83 (permalink)
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GER30 CFD


I just realised that in my Ninjatrader Brokerage FX account (via FXCM in London), I have the GER30 CFD.

1 x GER30 = 10c / pip (I think CFD ticks are referred to as pips, as they are in the spot FX world), so
50 = EUR 5 / pip @ margin of EUR 300, ie. much less than Eurex rates (maybe not available in the US, though), 1 pip target spread (supposedly 2 max), and I think lower commissions than Eurex.

This CFD trades in single point increments, unlike FDAX, so a "half-size" / faster chart is required (if not time-based).

"In for observation"...

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  #84 (permalink)
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Interactive Brokers also have its DAX CFD, 1€/point and 0.01 increments.
FXCM and IB DAX CFDs looks better than this new mini FDAX, at least until the day it will reach enough volume activity (if it's reached one day).
CFD can't be traded in US.


jtrade View Post
I just realised that in my Ninjatrader Brokerage FX account (via FXCM in London), I have the GER30 CFD.

1 x GER30 = 10c / pip (I think CFD ticks are referred to as pips, as they are in the spot FX world), so
50 = EUR 5 / pip @ margin of EUR 300, ie. much less than Eurex rates (maybe not available in the US, though), 1 pip target spread (supposedly 2 max), and I think lower commissions than Eurex.

This CFD trades in single point increments, unlike FDAX, so a "half-size" / faster chart is required (if not time-based).

"In for observation"...


Success requires no deodorant! (Sun Tzu)
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  #85 (permalink)
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sam028 View Post
Interactive Brokers also have its DAX CFD, 1€/point and 0.01 increments.
FXCM and IB DAX CFDs looks better than this new mini FDAX, at least until the day it will reach enough volume activity (if it's reached one day).
CFD can't be traded in US.

I do not trade these but it seems IB's CFD commissions for 5e/p position are something about 2,59e compared to DFXM (Mini Dax futures) 1,16e commissions.

The difference between CFD and FDAX 25e/p position is something about 12,92e vs. 1,41e

And if you do size the advantage goes even better in futures.

Then of course you have to think about the slippage but this is not an easy task to compare... Anyway you look the current FXDM bid/ask depth and what I know from FDAX side the current DFXM futures are VERY tradeable. No problem with this.

So from this point of view I would choose Futures definitely.

What comes to purpose of the FXDM I see it clear: They are for low capital traders (often retail) so I see a great success for the FXDM in future.


Last edited by Scalpguy; December 12th, 2015 at 03:33 AM.
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  #86 (permalink)
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Scalpguy View Post
I do not trade these but it seems IB's CFD commissions for 5e/p position are something about 2,59e compared to DFXM (Mini Dax futures) 1,16e commissions.

The difference between CFD and FDAX 25e/p position is something about 12,92e vs. 1,41e

And if you do size the advantage goes even better in futures.

Then of course you have to think about the slippage but this is not an easy task to compare... Anyway you look the current FXDM bid/ask depth and what I know from FDAX side the current DFXM futures are VERY tradeable. No problem with this.

So from this point of view I would choose Futures definitely.

What comes to purpose of the FXDM I see it clear: They are for low capital traders (often retail) so I see a great success for the FXDM in future.

It's just IB's CFD offering is let's say very far from the best. Don't even look at FXCM's one ))

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #87 (permalink)
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xelaar View Post
It's just IB's CFD offering is let's say very far from the best. Don't even look at FXCM's one ))

I got your point

I personally do not consider anything smaller than IB. I am so scared

Well to be honest I do trade smaller brokers too (one of them). They are great because of low margin requirements -> less capital under the broker risk, but lately been trading FDAX w/ IB.

It takes courage to be a Pig
Go With The Flow !

Last edited by Scalpguy; December 12th, 2015 at 07:15 AM.
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  #88 (permalink)
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Scalpguy View Post
I got your point

I personally do not consider anything smaller than IB. I am so scared

Well to be honest I do trade smaller brokers too (one of them). They are great because of low margin requirements -> less capital under the broker risk, but lately been trading FDAX w/ IB.

I hear echo in background saying mf glibal mf global… lol

From what I know IB does proprietary trading, just like MFG did which resulted in we know what.
Thus said I have a funded account at IB and several ither brokers, I trade where conditions are the best, for IB its options, for lmax is forex and cfd.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #89 (permalink)
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xelaar View Post
I hear echo in background saying mf glibal mf global… lol

From what I know IB does proprietary trading, just like MFG did which resulted in we know what.
Thus said I have a funded account at IB and several ither brokers, I trade where conditions are the best, for IB its options, for lmax is forex and cfd.

Altogether the big house can survive small problems where small house will go bankgrupt. So this is why I prefer bigger ones.

What comes to IB it is totally a different story than mfg. Im not going to go deep in this but "trust me" I know this thing.

One thing I agree: Show me a 100% bullet proof house. None.

It takes courage to be a Pig
Go With The Flow !
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  #90 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
Belgium
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Favorite Futures: FDAX, FDXM ...maybe
 
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Press from EUREX.

I remain pleased with the results that the smaller size has had on my trading ...


Eurex Group - Mini-DAX® Futures: considerable liquidity after only 30 days of trading


I hope that this means that the contract is a commercial success and that they will keep it.

p

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