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Is The Wyckoff Method or Volume Spread Analysis Legit?
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Is The Wyckoff Method or Volume Spread Analysis Legit?

  #1 (permalink)
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Is The Wyckoff Method or Volume Spread Analysis Legit?

Just wondering if it's actually useful or not.

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  #3 (permalink)
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Whether they are useful or not depends on what you're looking for.

There are actually two "Wyckoff Methods": one is Wyckoff's own, the original course written in the early 30s; the other is the Robert Evans adaptation developed in the 50s. The latter is what virtually everyone uses, for a variety of reasons. I find the original to be of much more use, at least to me. But then I always seek out original sources, such as with Steidlmayer and what eventually became Market Profile.

VSA came about as a result of Tom Williams' study of the Robert Evans adaptation of Wyckoff's course but was also influenced by the writings of Richard Nye. The original here was called The Undeclared Secrets That Drive The Stock Market.

None of these use indicators, so that may exclude them from your consideration. Otherwise, Wyckoff's original course is available for free, so you can decide its usefulness for yourself (the Evans adaptation is still under copyright). As for Williams' Undeclared Secrets, there are pdfs of it floating around. As Williams is very much alive, they may not be legal, but not all authors object to these free pdfs as they provide free advertising. Whether or not you google it is up to you.

If you are looking for work on pure price action, with nothing on the chart except for the price bar or the tick, then these might be right up your alley. These three -- Wyckoff's original course, Williams' first work, and Steidlmayer's Markets and Market Logic -- are about all there is.

And, incidentally, though you didn't ask, if you're interested in scalping, Wyckoff's My Secrets of Daytrading in Stocks may be of use to you. This is also available for free. It focuses on tape reading and P&F. There is also Livermore's How To Trade In Stocks, also free, which is essentially the same approach as Wyckoff's, though Wyckoff's book goes into far more detail.


Last edited by DbPhoenix; August 12th, 2015 at 07:34 AM.
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  #4 (permalink)
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DbPhoenix View Post
Whether they are useful or not depends on what you're looking for.

There are actually two "Wyckoff Methods": one is Wyckoff's own, the original course written in the early 30s; the other is the Robert Evans adaptation developed in the 50s. The latter is what virtually everyone uses, for a variety of reasons. I find the original to be of much more use, at least to me. But then I always seek out original sources, such as with Steidlmayer and what eventually became Market Profile.

VSA came about as a result of Tom Williams' study of the Robert Evans adaptation of Wyckoff's course but was also influenced by the writings of Richard Nye. The original here was called The Undeclared Secrets That Drive The Stock Market.

None of these use indicators, so that may exclude them from your consideration. Otherwise, Wyckoff's original course is available for free, so you can decide its usefulness for yourself (the Evans adaptation is still under copyright). As for Williams' Undeclared Secrets, there are pdfs of it floating around. As Williams is very much alive, they may not be legal, but not all authors object to these free pdfs as they provide free advertising. Whether or not you google it is up to you.

If you are looking for work on pure price action, with nothing on the chart except for the price bar or the tick, then these might be right up your alley. These three -- Wyckoff's original course, Williams' first work, and Steidlmayer's Markets and Market Logic -- are about all there is.

And, incidentally, though you didn't ask, if you're interested in scalping, Wyckoff's My Secrets of Daytrading in Stocks may be of use to you. This is also available for free. It focuses on tape reading and P&F. There is also Livermore's How To Trade In Stocks, also free, which is essentially the same approach as Wyckoff's, though Wyckoff's book goes into far more detail.

Thank you. What is P & F?

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  #5 (permalink)
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wallo101 View Post
Thank you. What is P & F?

Point & Figure. It was a kind of shorthand used by some tape readers in order to keep track of the various levels of pushing and shoving as printed on the tape or ticker so that the trader could distinguish serious moves one direction or another from those that were more or less treading water. De Villiers wrote the first book on it in 1933, but it had been used in one form or another for quite some time before that.

The Xs and Os are very likely derived from the notations that tape readers made given that the notes had to be made quickly, often on the backs on envelopes.

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DbPhoenix View Post
Point & Figure. It was a kind of shorthand used by some tape readers in order to keep track of the various levels of pushing and shoving as printed on the tape or ticker so that the trader could distinguish serious moves one direction or another from those that were more or less treading water. De Villiers wrote the first book on it in 1933, but it had been used in one form or another for quite some time before that.

The Xs and Os are very likely derived from the notations that tape readers made given that the notes had to be made quickly, often on the backs on envelopes.

Thank you. I see your trading experience is advanced... are you successful?

Just wondering because it's been said that 90% of people trying to trade fail and i know i might be one of those 90% who never succeed so knowing someone's successful is good to hear sometimes, because even people who sell courses aren't successful themselves.

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wallo101 View Post
Thank you. I see your trading experience is advanced... are you successful?

Just wondering because it's been said that 90% of people trying to trade fail and i know i might be one of those 90% who never succeed so knowing someone's successful is good to hear sometimes, because even people who sell courses aren't successful themselves.

First, whether or not anyone else is successful isn't pertinent to your eventual success or failure. I could tell you I'm successful but you'd have no way of knowing that unless I provided you with my tax returns for the last 40 years. Same thing goes for anyone else who claims to be successful. In other words, whether or not you are successful is entirely up to you. Studying Wyckoff's course -- the original course -- is a good start. If you think it's "too old", read How To Make Money In Stocks (after the first edition, the books became more and more of a sales pitch for "Investor's Business Daily").

Second, the 90% thing isn't true, but I don't argue about it anymore, nor is the meme that becoming a competent trader requires 10,000 hours. But people want to believe it, so there you are.

Third, if you "know" you "might" fail before you've even begun, then you most likely will. You can't fall out of bed if you sleep on the floor. If, however, you are interested in succeeding, there are ways of finding out whether or not you're suited for it without spending any money, though you will be spending a considerable amount of time. The pdf attached to this post may be of interest to you.

Believe in yourself, but remain tethered to reality.

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DbPhoenix View Post
First, whether or not anyone else is successful isn't pertinent to your eventual success or failure.

@DbPhoenix, I can tell from your posts that you a genuinely polite person, so my post is not meant to be a confrontational. Please consider another view on "success"

Those who influence you and teach you early your career, have a tremendous effect on the way of thinking for many years. If one is led in the wrong direction, he may have losses for years, and at times would need to "reprogram" himself, in order to get the trading game right.

In the early stages of trading (where most are fascinated withe reward and under-appreciate the risk) is when the traders are most influenced. They buy courses, methods and indicators that will match their worldview. Sadly, what sounds "super intelligent" to them at the time, is nothing bit nonsense and regret in the years to come.

On the other hand, those who were successful traders, or are successful, approach this business in a pragmatic way.
What they teach is practical, and does not constitute a methodology rather a good foundation to develop a successful methodology.

It takes years to recognize the difference between the ones who sound intelligent and those who really make it.

Matt
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double post, sorry.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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wallo101 View Post
Just wondering if it's actually useful or not.

It is highly subjective which means the success or failure has nothing to do with the method and everything to do with the individual trader.

In other words, don't waste your time learning something that has no edge.

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