NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





YM vs. ES


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one andy4 with 4 posts (5 thanks)
    2. looks_two lovetotrade with 2 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 tturner86 with 2 posts (8 thanks)
    4. looks_4 AtHomeTrader with 1 posts (2 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one tturner86 with 4 thanks per post
    2. looks_two bmw335isedan with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 AtHomeTrader with 2 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 andy4 with 1.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 13,776 views
    2. thumb_up 18 thanks given
    3. group 8 followers
    1. forum 11 posts
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




 
Search this Thread

YM vs. ES

  #1 (permalink)
 
lovetotrade's Avatar
 lovetotrade 
Rockledge, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Gain Capital, OANDA
Trading: GBP
Posts: 416 since Oct 2014
Thanks Given: 1,059
Thanks Received: 813

So there haven't been any threads on this subject in quite a while, so I thought I would ask for some input.

I personally enjoy the YM more so than the ES because I feel market patterns are a little easier to read, and I am able to use a larger stop for the same setups. Or should I say the same monetary stop goes a bit further on the YM. The $5 moves also seem to be less intimidating, and therefore do not have as large an impact on my psych while I am in a position and watching my charts.

Now I know the big guys seem to use the ES more often, and from what I understand the liquidity is better for large orders. But other than that I just don't get all the hype about the ES,after having traded them both. I guess that could come down to my trading style, but I feel there is more that I am missing.

Hoping to get both sides of the coin in on this discussion.

What are some of the things you enjoy about in the ES that you feel the YM does not offer, and vice versa?

Cheers!

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Build trailing stop for micro index(s)
Psychology and Money Management
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
Deepmoney LLM
Elite Quantitative GenAI/LLM
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Get funded firms 2023/2024 - Any recommendations or word …
60 thanks
Funded Trader platforms
37 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
24 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
22 thanks
The Program
19 thanks
  #3 (permalink)
bmw335isedan
Seoul, Korea
 
Posts: 9 since Jun 2013
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 8



lovetotrade View Post
So there haven't been any threads on this subject in quite a while, so I thought I would ask for some input.

I personally enjoy the YM more so than the ES because I feel market patterns are a little easier to read, and I am able to use a larger stop for the same setups. Or should I say the same monetary stop goes a bit further on the YM. The $5 moves also seem to be less intimidating, and therefore do not have as large an impact on my psych while I am in a position and watching my charts.

Now I know the big guys seem to use the ES more often, and from what I understand the liquidity is better for large orders. But other than that I just don't get all the hype about the ES,after having traded them both. I guess that could come down to my trading style, but I feel there is more that I am missing.

Hoping to get both sides of the coin in on this discussion.

What are some of the things you enjoy about in the ES that you feel the YM does not offer, and vice versa?

Cheers!

I think the advantage of ES is a cheaper trading costs.

Unlike ES, YM has lower tick value, but higher exchange fees.

YM costs $1.19 per side, but ES costs $1.15. Obviously, this is without the membership. YM's Tick value is less than half of ES so trader must have higher profit target otherwise fees will eat up.

Slippage is also a big factor, ES usually never have more than 1 tick slippage when stops are hit.

Sometimes I get better fill on stoploss. However, YM's matrix (book) isn't very thick so you are more likely to get slippage when buying and selling.

Therefore, I personally prefer ES way more than YM and also only trade ES at the moment.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4 (permalink)
 
lovetotrade's Avatar
 lovetotrade 
Rockledge, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Gain Capital, OANDA
Trading: GBP
Posts: 416 since Oct 2014
Thanks Given: 1,059
Thanks Received: 813

I have noticed the slippage, and that is starting to bother me a bit. Sometimes there could be 1 to 3 points between each bar, and it's all good when that gap is in your favor, but on the flip side...

I have noticed that some days the pivots work better with the ES, and some days with the YM which is a little frustrating.

I see what you are saying with the fees being a little higher, but I feel much more confident in having a B/E+1 at 20pts in the YM compared to only 8 ticks in the ES. I know the moves are comparable, but I have seen similar moves get stopped out in the ES, but held in the YM. Maybe it's just my strategy.

I was just really curious as to why I enjoy it so much, but I haven't seen hardly anyone using it.

Feel free to elaborate some more if you don't mind if there are any other reasons for your preference for the ES. Thanks for the reply!

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)
AtHomeTrader
Los Angeles CA USA
 
Posts: 2 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 5

I agree with bmw335isedan that the smaller price of the YM contract is a two-edged sword. Assuming the commissions were the same for the YM and ES, you'd be paying the same in commission to make less money.

Of course volatility comes into play with that too. There are many variables since commissions and fees do vary.

My approach when starting was this:

1. Started trading on a demo account or simulator until I was consistently profitable for 3 consecutive months.

2. After that, traded a low-priced contract such as the YM or NQ so my losses would be less. As you rightly, and very importantly, mention, the psychological impact is less. Also trading with real money is not going to be the same as trading on a simulator, so the first objective is to keep losses small as you adjust to the difference (which can be both mechanical and psychological).

3. Finally, and only if you feel comfortable, move to a higher priced contract such as the ES to lessen the impact of commissions on your profits.

Not saying that approach is right for everyone, but that worked well for me.

Wish you all the best!

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #6 (permalink)
 
tturner86's Avatar
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-40
Trading: GBU-39
Posts: 6,191 since Sep 2013
Thanks Given: 10,459
Thanks Received: 12,695

I have found the NQ as a happy middle between then YM and ES. You get the same cost benefits of the YM but without the slippage (I have slipped up to 4 ticks before in the NQ although average is 1-2 ticks), and you still have great liquidity like the ES.

NQ moves like the ES but with greater magnitude, so most of the moves mimic the ES in the amount of potential profit that provide, and at times the NQ can actually provide more.

Explore all of the markets, YM, NQ, TF, and ES. They each have their own behaviors, rewards, and risks.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)
andy4
lakeland
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2011
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 5

Hi,
guess just for discussion
I notice a lot of traders talk bout the bigger tick value for profit in the ES, but few mention that because YM is only $5 a tick, it cuts your risk down too, one reason I switched from CL to YM.
Also a IDEM seat is so cheap compared to how much it cuts down your exchange fee's. Of course only makes sense if your higher volume. I just know for me, can now scalp for ticks and still make a profit, helps me to scratch trades with minimum losses

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #8 (permalink)
 
tturner86's Avatar
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-40
Trading: GBU-39
Posts: 6,191 since Sep 2013
Thanks Given: 10,459
Thanks Received: 12,695


andy4 View Post
Hi,
guess just for discussion
I notice a lot of traders talk bout the bigger tick value for profit in the ES, but few mention that because YM is only $5 a tick, it cuts your risk down too, one reason I switched from CL to YM.
Also a IDEM seat is so cheap compared to how much it cuts down your exchange fee's. Of course only makes sense if your higher volume. I just know for me, can now scalp for ticks and still make a profit, helps me to scratch trades with minimum losses

Believing the smaller tick size is reducing risk is a fallacy as most moves in NQ or YM actually match or exceed the actual dollar amount of a move in the ES for the same period of time.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)
 MacroNinja 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, MT4, Sierra
Trading: S&P, Bonds, Crude, FX
Posts: 250 since Sep 2014
Thanks Given: 37
Thanks Received: 256

I would highly recommend not forgetting the constitution of the YM versus the make up of the S&P 500. Do you actually want to be long all 30 companies of the Dow? You could conceivably want to be long the blue chips and short half of the S&P 500 depending on what your earnings outlook is.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)
andy4
lakeland
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2011
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 5


Hi,
If trading move for move, then sure dollar amount could be about the same, but then the idea of ES being better than YM for larger profits would be taken away ?

I guess for me in my situation of micro scalping, say the ES moves a couple of ticks, trying to get in and out for a tick or two, plus get filled with hundreds in front of me on the bid/ask just seems harder than the YM. Where a ES move of two ticks the YM would bounce around 2-5 with only 10-20 on bid/ask I can be in and out with 1-3 ticks. Again that's just very small quick scalps.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on March 9, 2016


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts