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YM vs. ES
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YM vs. ES

  #1 (permalink)
Student of the Markets
Cocoa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
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Favorite Futures: YM, Forex
 
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YM vs. ES

So there haven't been any threads on this subject in quite a while, so I thought I would ask for some input.

I personally enjoy the YM more so than the ES because I feel market patterns are a little easier to read, and I am able to use a larger stop for the same setups. Or should I say the same monetary stop goes a bit further on the YM. The $5 moves also seem to be less intimidating, and therefore do not have as large an impact on my psych while I am in a position and watching my charts.

Now I know the big guys seem to use the ES more often, and from what I understand the liquidity is better for large orders. But other than that I just don't get all the hype about the ES,after having traded them both. I guess that could come down to my trading style, but I feel there is more that I am missing.

Hoping to get both sides of the coin in on this discussion.

What are some of the things you enjoy about in the ES that you feel the YM does not offer, and vice versa?

Cheers!

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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lovetotrade View Post
So there haven't been any threads on this subject in quite a while, so I thought I would ask for some input.

I personally enjoy the YM more so than the ES because I feel market patterns are a little easier to read, and I am able to use a larger stop for the same setups. Or should I say the same monetary stop goes a bit further on the YM. The $5 moves also seem to be less intimidating, and therefore do not have as large an impact on my psych while I am in a position and watching my charts.

Now I know the big guys seem to use the ES more often, and from what I understand the liquidity is better for large orders. But other than that I just don't get all the hype about the ES,after having traded them both. I guess that could come down to my trading style, but I feel there is more that I am missing.

Hoping to get both sides of the coin in on this discussion.

What are some of the things you enjoy about in the ES that you feel the YM does not offer, and vice versa?

Cheers!

I think the advantage of ES is a cheaper trading costs.

Unlike ES, YM has lower tick value, but higher exchange fees.

YM costs $1.19 per side, but ES costs $1.15. Obviously, this is without the membership. YM's Tick value is less than half of ES so trader must have higher profit target otherwise fees will eat up.

Slippage is also a big factor, ES usually never have more than 1 tick slippage when stops are hit.

Sometimes I get better fill on stoploss. However, YM's matrix (book) isn't very thick so you are more likely to get slippage when buying and selling.

Therefore, I personally prefer ES way more than YM and also only trade ES at the moment.

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  #4 (permalink)
Student of the Markets
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I have noticed the slippage, and that is starting to bother me a bit. Sometimes there could be 1 to 3 points between each bar, and it's all good when that gap is in your favor, but on the flip side...

I have noticed that some days the pivots work better with the ES, and some days with the YM which is a little frustrating.

I see what you are saying with the fees being a little higher, but I feel much more confident in having a B/E+1 at 20pts in the YM compared to only 8 ticks in the ES. I know the moves are comparable, but I have seen similar moves get stopped out in the ES, but held in the YM. Maybe it's just my strategy.

I was just really curious as to why I enjoy it so much, but I haven't seen hardly anyone using it.

Feel free to elaborate some more if you don't mind if there are any other reasons for your preference for the ES. Thanks for the reply!

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  #5 (permalink)
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I agree with bmw335isedan that the smaller price of the YM contract is a two-edged sword. Assuming the commissions were the same for the YM and ES, you'd be paying the same in commission to make less money.

Of course volatility comes into play with that too. There are many variables since commissions and fees do vary.

My approach when starting was this:

1. Started trading on a demo account or simulator until I was consistently profitable for 3 consecutive months.

2. After that, traded a low-priced contract such as the YM or NQ so my losses would be less. As you rightly, and very importantly, mention, the psychological impact is less. Also trading with real money is not going to be the same as trading on a simulator, so the first objective is to keep losses small as you adjust to the difference (which can be both mechanical and psychological).

3. Finally, and only if you feel comfortable, move to a higher priced contract such as the ES to lessen the impact of commissions on your profits.

Not saying that approach is right for everyone, but that worked well for me.

Wish you all the best!

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  #6 (permalink)
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I have found the NQ as a happy middle between then YM and ES. You get the same cost benefits of the YM but without the slippage (I have slipped up to 4 ticks before in the NQ although average is 1-2 ticks), and you still have great liquidity like the ES.

NQ moves like the ES but with greater magnitude, so most of the moves mimic the ES in the amount of potential profit that provide, and at times the NQ can actually provide more.

Explore all of the markets, YM, NQ, TF, and ES. They each have their own behaviors, rewards, and risks.

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  #7 (permalink)
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Hi,
guess just for discussion
I notice a lot of traders talk bout the bigger tick value for profit in the ES, but few mention that because YM is only $5 a tick, it cuts your risk down too, one reason I switched from CL to YM.
Also a IDEM seat is so cheap compared to how much it cuts down your exchange fee's. Of course only makes sense if your higher volume. I just know for me, can now scalp for ticks and still make a profit, helps me to scratch trades with minimum losses

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  #8 (permalink)
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andy4 View Post
Hi,
guess just for discussion
I notice a lot of traders talk bout the bigger tick value for profit in the ES, but few mention that because YM is only $5 a tick, it cuts your risk down too, one reason I switched from CL to YM.
Also a IDEM seat is so cheap compared to how much it cuts down your exchange fee's. Of course only makes sense if your higher volume. I just know for me, can now scalp for ticks and still make a profit, helps me to scratch trades with minimum losses

Believing the smaller tick size is reducing risk is a fallacy as most moves in NQ or YM actually match or exceed the actual dollar amount of a move in the ES for the same period of time.

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  #9 (permalink)
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I would highly recommend not forgetting the constitution of the YM versus the make up of the S&P 500. Do you actually want to be long all 30 companies of the Dow? You could conceivably want to be long the blue chips and short half of the S&P 500 depending on what your earnings outlook is.

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  #10 (permalink)
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Hi,
If trading move for move, then sure dollar amount could be about the same, but then the idea of ES being better than YM for larger profits would be taken away ?

I guess for me in my situation of micro scalping, say the ES moves a couple of ticks, trying to get in and out for a tick or two, plus get filled with hundreds in front of me on the bid/ask just seems harder than the YM. Where a ES move of two ticks the YM would bounce around 2-5 with only 10-20 on bid/ask I can be in and out with 1-3 ticks. Again that's just very small quick scalps.

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